What the heck does this mean?
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I'm doing a phone interview tomorrow with the lead tech guy and he, and I quote: "wants to make sure that your strategies align more with Ruby best practices as opposed to a more traditionally .NET approach." Now, what exactly does that mean? From my experience, Ruby developers have piss poor practices, but I really wonder Ruby brings to the table in terms of practices that are somehow different from "traditional" .NET approaches. All I can think of is leveraging features like mixins that promote bad OO practices. Anyone have a clue? More generally, would you say that [Java / C / PHP / F# / etc.] has best practices that distinguish it from "traditional .NET" development? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Marc Clifton wrote:
"wants to make sure that your strategies align more with Ruby best practices as opposed to a more traditionally .NET approach."
I think this statement is a preemptive strike from the the interviewer. What he really is trying to say is - If you try to outsmart me with your knowledge, i'll throw in a "this is not how its done in Ruby" trump card and save my ego.
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I'm doing a phone interview tomorrow with the lead tech guy and he, and I quote: "wants to make sure that your strategies align more with Ruby best practices as opposed to a more traditionally .NET approach." Now, what exactly does that mean? From my experience, Ruby developers have piss poor practices, but I really wonder Ruby brings to the table in terms of practices that are somehow different from "traditional" .NET approaches. All I can think of is leveraging features like mixins that promote bad OO practices. Anyone have a clue? More generally, would you say that [Java / C / PHP / F# / etc.] has best practices that distinguish it from "traditional .NET" development? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
This reminds me of a an old story. Once an interviewer told me - "I want to know whether you understand the difference between VB and .Net properly" and surprisingly it was in 2008 so he was not talking about VB6, He was talking about VB.NET. And I was like :omg:
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Just the sort of comment I'd expect from someone with misalignment all over their strategies!
Try Hovercraft for Android, voted "a game" by players.
I'm strategically unaligning myself from your comments.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm doing a phone interview tomorrow with the lead tech guy and he, and I quote: "wants to make sure that your strategies align more with Ruby best practices as opposed to a more traditionally .NET approach." Now, what exactly does that mean? From my experience, Ruby developers have piss poor practices, but I really wonder Ruby brings to the table in terms of practices that are somehow different from "traditional" .NET approaches. All I can think of is leveraging features like mixins that promote bad OO practices. Anyone have a clue? More generally, would you say that [Java / C / PHP / F# / etc.] has best practices that distinguish it from "traditional .NET" development? Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
To my ears, the meta-message seems loud-and-clear, resonating with some, or all, of the following: 0. I am insecure. 1. I am suspicious of you, personally, or professionally 2. I am (may be) threatened by your achievements/background/experience/reputation /.../.../... 3. I want to know if you'd "fit in" in every possible sense of that word including: a. will you accept me as your boss, and grovel if necessary in the interview to prove that b. won't be someone who will stand out and be seen as a replacement for me. c. if you realize how dumb I am, how over-promoted, will you blow my cover ? 4. Ruby is my religion: will you convert, or not ? Prove you are not an unbeliever by walking across hot coals without screaming. 5. I want to see some vulnerability
«I'm asked why doesn't C# implement feature X all the time. The answer's always the same: because no one ever designed, specified, implemented, tested, documented, shipped that feature. All six of those things are necessary to make a feature happen. They all cost huge amounts of time, effort and money.» Eric Lippert, Microsoft, 2009
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They try to make things sound better by calling them "best" when they're not even good. :sigh:
Let me rephrase for you; "Once you do things my way you will be following best practices"
My plan is to live forever ... so far so good
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To my ears, the meta-message seems loud-and-clear, resonating with some, or all, of the following: 0. I am insecure. 1. I am suspicious of you, personally, or professionally 2. I am (may be) threatened by your achievements/background/experience/reputation /.../.../... 3. I want to know if you'd "fit in" in every possible sense of that word including: a. will you accept me as your boss, and grovel if necessary in the interview to prove that b. won't be someone who will stand out and be seen as a replacement for me. c. if you realize how dumb I am, how over-promoted, will you blow my cover ? 4. Ruby is my religion: will you convert, or not ? Prove you are not an unbeliever by walking across hot coals without screaming. 5. I want to see some vulnerability
«I'm asked why doesn't C# implement feature X all the time. The answer's always the same: because no one ever designed, specified, implemented, tested, documented, shipped that feature. All six of those things are necessary to make a feature happen. They all cost huge amounts of time, effort and money.» Eric Lippert, Microsoft, 2009
BillWoodruff wrote:
resonating with some, or all, of the following:
Yeah, that seems to be the sentiment here. I'll be interested to see how it goes. Thanks for the feedback, it may be valuable! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Marc Clifton wrote:
"wants to make sure that your strategies align more with Ruby best practices as opposed to a more traditionally .NET approach."
I think this statement is a preemptive strike from the the interviewer. What he really is trying to say is - If you try to outsmart me with your knowledge, i'll throw in a "this is not how its done in Ruby" trump card and save my ego.
Rahul Rajat Singh wrote:
If you try to outsmart me with your knowledge, i'll throw in a "this is not how its done in Ruby" trump card and save my ego.
Ugh. I've experienced that before! Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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May I translate: We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Your existence as you know it is over and you will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. Or even simpler: We want to go sure that any crap we have produced, be it as unconventional as it wants, will be adopted by you as best practice. If you have the option: Run as fast and as far you can.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada."CDP1802 wrote:
If you have the option: Run as fast and as far you can.
I do, but I also don't want to turn down what could be a lucrative contract. I'll have to do a bit of interviewing the interviewer myself. :) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Surely it doesn't matter if your strategies come from Ruby, .NET or Mars. If you can write clean, well designed and structured code that meets or exceeds the client's expectations, then it's irrelevant. If I came across that statement from the "lead" tech for a job interview, I'd seriously question their credentials.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
Dominic Burford wrote:
Surely it doesn't matter if your strategies come from Ruby, .NET or Mars.
My thoughts exactly. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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They try to make things sound better by calling them "best" when they're not even good. :sigh:
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
They try to make things sound better by calling them "best" when they're not even good.
Yup. I've definitely encountered that in the Ruby camp. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Um... Testing... Testing... Seriously. Many Ruby wallahs think that .NET guys don't do enough testing. That sounds like something someone would refer to as "best practices".
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Many Ruby wallahs think that .NET guys don't do enough testing.
I suspect that is it, but I can't help wondering what else he might mean. I think the first thing I will do is fire back the question "What is your perception of .NET practices?" Might lead to an interesting conversation, or at least a revealing one. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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I can think of 3 points: 1. Using the strength of the language/environment (what is it for Ruby?) 2. Using common 'best-practices' - but why that should be different between Ruby and other languages? 3. The actual look-and-feel of your code - and I mean that your code is not write-only, and can be used in a group too... In any way such a question would - in most cases at least - turn me hot...It sounds me like a 'tech' guy who didn't got over the slogans and buzzwords of the subject... If you want the job, beware! Do not make him fool!
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
If you want the job, beware! Do not make him fool!
Very good advice. :) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Not sure. Perhaps the filter confused the word 'duck' with something else ;)
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
SoMad wrote:
Perhaps the filter confused the word 'duck' with something else
Well, in my opinion, any conversation on duck-typing should be moderated! :-D Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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Sure. BTW, there are currently 2 posts from Kornfeld in the Moderation Queue.
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
It's OK I'm getting used to it in the last two days...and I not even use words like a*se and d*ck...
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
Many Ruby wallahs think that .NET guys don't do enough testing.
I suspect that is it, but I can't help wondering what else he might mean. I think the first thing I will do is fire back the question "What is your perception of .NET practices?" Might lead to an interesting conversation, or at least a revealing one. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Marc Clifton wrote:
"What is your perception of .NET practices? I mean, I've been places where I don't think they do enough testing, but most places aren't too bad."
As Lotrice will tell you, you've gotta get a good punch in first.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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CDP1802 wrote:
If you have the option: Run as fast and as far you can.
I do, but I also don't want to turn down what could be a lucrative contract. I'll have to do a bit of interviewing the interviewer myself. :) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Money is not everything. It really sounds like they declare all their grand ideas to be 'best practices' and the lucrative contract quickly becomes an endless drama. I have seen that before: "It's a 'best practice' to do it that way." "Certainly not. It's wrong, causes an error reported by the users and is generally considered to be an anti-pattern." "Then it's a convention of ours!" "You made a convention out of deliberately introducing bugs?" Really, be careful. I have learned to fear the words 'best practice' or 'convention'. Often enough you should read those two as 'dogma'.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." -
I can think of 3 points: 1. Using the strength of the language/environment (what is it for Ruby?) 2. Using common 'best-practices' - but why that should be different between Ruby and other languages? 3. The actual look-and-feel of your code - and I mean that your code is not write-only, and can be used in a group too... In any way such a question would - in most cases at least - turn me hot...It sounds me like a 'tech' guy who didn't got over the slogans and buzzwords of the subject... If you want the job, beware! Do not make him fool!
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:
1. Using the strength of the language/environment (what is it for Ruby?)
2. Using common 'best-practices' - but why that should be different between Ruby and other languages?Not sure. I could see someone objecting to trying to write C# like Java or vice versa; but C# and Ruby are different enough that I don't see how you could abuse one into looking like the other. :confused:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Money is not everything. It really sounds like they declare all their grand ideas to be 'best practices' and the lucrative contract quickly becomes an endless drama. I have seen that before: "It's a 'best practice' to do it that way." "Certainly not. It's wrong, causes an error reported by the users and is generally considered to be an anti-pattern." "Then it's a convention of ours!" "You made a convention out of deliberately introducing bugs?" Really, be careful. I have learned to fear the words 'best practice' or 'convention'. Often enough you should read those two as 'dogma'.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada."CDP1802 wrote:
Really, be careful. I have learned to fear the words 'best practice' or 'convention'. Often enough you should read those two as 'dogma'.
Oh, I will, and I completely agree. :) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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SoMad wrote:
Perhaps the filter confused the word 'duck' with something else
Well, in my opinion, any conversation on duck-typing should be moderated! :-D Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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"arse" is a naughty word.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
