These religious wars never (will) end!
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I prefer a metaview -- your choice of language will not make you a better programmer. Conversely, if you are a proficient programmer, you can apply good programming practices regardless of the language (even assembler) that you're working in. The expression "garbage in, garbage out" is one side of the coin. "bad programmer in, bad program out" is the other side. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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I prefer a metaview -- your choice of language will not make you a better programmer. Conversely, if you are a proficient programmer, you can apply good programming practices regardless of the language (even assembler) that you're working in. The expression "garbage in, garbage out" is one side of the coin. "bad programmer in, bad program out" is the other side. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Marc Clifton wrote:
if you are a proficient programmer, you can apply good programming practices regardless of the language (even especially assembler) that you're working in
FTFY :-D
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy. In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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Nice saying... :) By the way, how can bad programmer in, bad program out make sense? Bad programmer would always make bad programs.
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
Not necessarily - they could get lucky. Doesn't happen very often (if at all) but it could. Conversely, it's very easy for a good programmer to create a total pile of steaming waset material if he doesn't pay attention.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Nice saying... :) By the way, how can bad programmer in, bad program out make sense? Bad programmer would always make bad programs.
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
Afzaal Ahmad Zeeshan wrote:
By the way, how can bad programmer in, bad program out make sense?
Erm, like most pithy sayings, one shouldn't think too hard upon them. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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harold aptroot wrote:
But even PHP?
Actually yes. I took some really crappy PHP that someone had written on a project I was working on and turned into well documented, nicely encapsulated, and most importantly of all, unit-testable code. So, as it turns out, PHP is decent, it's just the abuses of the idiot that wrote the PHP code that gave me a bad taste for the language at first. I'm also really impressed with the online documentation, particularly the actually useful additions that people contribute to the docs. That's quite rare. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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He's just a bit behind the times... :laugh: :thumbsup:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Yeah. C# won the war.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
With all the bickering over languages and technology, I wonder when any real programming gets done. :sigh: BTW, my car is faster than your car. :-D
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Mr. Torvalds may be the super smart creator of Linux and Git (quite a feat, I'll give him that!), he's still an asshole :) The best mr. Kakurin could've done was just ignore such rudeness. By the way, I believe mr. Torvalds is aware that he's an asshole and he's pretty much okay with it.
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I won't find it compelling for he create Linux or Git, because I don't use either one of them. :laugh: I use Windows and Team Foundation Server; Microsoft geek I am?
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
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With all the bickering over languages and technology, I wonder when any real programming gets done. :sigh: BTW, my car is faster than your car. :-D
Slacker007 wrote:
BTW, my car is faster than your car
And mine is bigger then yours. Wait, are we still talking about cars? ;P
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Quote:
By the way, I am with C!
good for you - I am with whatever language enables me to model an abstract idea in my head and turn it into something a computer can work with - at the moment, c# fits the bill, although Im not adverse to c++, c or a slew of other things as required (obviously I have my 'preferences', but I'll keep an open mind if I cant solve a situation using what Im comfortable with 'right now')
Both have there place!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site. When you are dead you don't know it, it's only difficult for others. It's the same when you're stupid.
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With all the bickering over languages and technology, I wonder when any real programming gets done. :sigh: BTW, my car is faster than your car. :-D
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I prefer a metaview -- your choice of language will not make you a better programmer. Conversely, if you are a proficient programmer, you can apply good programming practices regardless of the language (even assembler) that you're working in. The expression "garbage in, garbage out" is one side of the coin. "bad programmer in, bad program out" is the other side. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Marc Clifton wrote:
The expression "garbage in, garbage out" is one side of the coin. "bad programmer in, bad program out" is the other side.
That is a signature-quotable Marcism if I've ever seen one ! Congratulations. I am tempted to say that: if the hand that holds the coin is ignorant enough they may not even know which side of the coin is which, let alone the denomination of the coin. But, I decided not to say that. Whilst reading your remarks a little voice in my head kept reminding me of your recent (excellent) rants about working in Ruby, but I think those were by the other Marc :) cheers, Bill
«To kill an error's as good a service, sometimes better than, establishing new truth or fact.» Charles Darwin in "Prospero's Precepts"
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
He does seem like an ass doesn't he? Maybe it's the prestige of being the Linux creator that gives him the freedom to get away with this? But no reason why he couldn't just state his reasons in a cool, calm manner without vituperation.
Kevin
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
Language is only a medium of expression, especially a computer language. It is good to start with one language, and become familiar with its features. But after some years, one should transcend language, and focus on the problem to be solved / resolved. After all, the pretty GUIs which people see can be made to work with any language behind, isn't it?
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Language is only a medium of expression, especially a computer language. It is good to start with one language, and become familiar with its features. But after some years, one should transcend language, and focus on the problem to be solved / resolved. After all, the pretty GUIs which people see can be made to work with any language behind, isn't it?
Avijnata wrote:
Language is only a medium of expression, especially a computer language.
I think that the idea that a "computer language" is analogous to a human spoken, and/or written, language is a terribly mis-leading, and superficial, cultural construct (meme). An invidious comparison of something with astounding depth and dimensionality with something relatively shallow, and one-dimensional. The question of whether language is something that can be "transcended" is also philosophically challenging, suggesting an infinite regress: do we ever have knowledge independent of our encoding of that knowledge ... whether that encoding is glyphs, syllables (morphemes) translated in the mind to patterns of neuronal linkage and activation (phonemes) ... and so forth. In terms of programming, I've seen brilliant bottom-up self-taught programmers who seemed to almost have "extrasensory" powers, and, I've seen programmers with advanced degrees from places like Stanford who thought in terms of Backus-Knorr diagrams and Design-Patterns who were remarkably un-productive working on real-world products. From those two extremes I do not infer anything about the average, the mode, or the median :)
«To kill an error's as good a service, sometimes better than, establishing new truth or fact.» Charles Darwin in "Prospero's Precepts"
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Marc Clifton wrote:
The expression "garbage in, garbage out" is one side of the coin. "bad programmer in, bad program out" is the other side.
That is a signature-quotable Marcism if I've ever seen one ! Congratulations. I am tempted to say that: if the hand that holds the coin is ignorant enough they may not even know which side of the coin is which, let alone the denomination of the coin. But, I decided not to say that. Whilst reading your remarks a little voice in my head kept reminding me of your recent (excellent) rants about working in Ruby, but I think those were by the other Marc :) cheers, Bill
«To kill an error's as good a service, sometimes better than, establishing new truth or fact.» Charles Darwin in "Prospero's Precepts"
BillWoodruff wrote:
But, I decided not to say that.
Well said. :)
BillWoodruff wrote:
but I think those were by the other Marc
There's at least one evil twin, but like Calvin (& Hobbes) it's hard to distinguish the clones from the real McCoy. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
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You think a Rocket Propelled Grenade might improve code quality? Could be right if you aim it at QA querists... :-D
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
Classic RPG won't even scratch their surfaces; you need RPG IV at the very least :)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
All hail the Universal Turing Machine! Any language that attempts to abstract away its pure beauty is a tool of the Devil, and should be expunged from the face of the planet! ;-)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
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Classic RPG won't even scratch their surfaces; you need RPG IV at the very least :)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
Some are indeed rather thick skinned. Thick everything, some of 'em. And others are so thin skinned it's surprising they can wear clothes without being flayed every time they move... :sigh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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The wars that have been going on since the development of C++ has been going on in between those who praise C and those who praise C++; nice conversation with Linus Torvalds of other preachers[^]. By the way, I am with C! ;P
The shit I complain about It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem ~! Firewall !~
