Is there a linguist in the house?
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A coder tends to use "fill in" but a manager want it to be "fill out"ed ...?
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When in doubt, use "complete". The reader can then make her own interpretation. Bobby
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Now try "ox boll". ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
fuzzy duck?
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So whenever I'm writing I often wonder about all kinds of small and silly language details. I just wondered what the (more?) correct translation of the Dutch word 'ingevuld' is. My first thought was 'fill out' (as in "can you fill out this questionnaire?"). Then I though 'fill in' (as in "can you fill in this questionnaire?"). Google Translate just gives me 'fill' when I give it 'invullen'. I think both are correct even though 'in' and 'out' are each others opposites... Of course 'fill in' can also be used in the following sentence: "Can you fill me in on the details?", where 'fill out' would be a no-go: "Can you fill me out on the details?". Any ideas on what I should use? In or out?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Hi Sander, In Afrikaans we also use "invul". But the more correct Afrikaans would be "voltooi" for a form of some sort. So I would go with "complete" for a questionnaire. So it is probably going to depend on the context :) Regards, Eben
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I won't be complete until I know the difference between fill in and fill out and why two opposites are used for the same thing :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
The phrases "fill in" and "fill out" are idiomatic in English. The word idiomatic is the linguistic weasel term for "beats the crap out of us why it's this way".
Software Zen:
delete this; -
The phrases "fill in" and "fill out" are idiomatic in English. The word idiomatic is the linguistic weasel term for "beats the crap out of us why it's this way".
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
The word idiomatic is the linguistic weasel term for "beats the crap out of us why it's this way".
:laugh: :thumbsup:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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fuzzy duck?
Highlighting the importance of the comma: Peter helped his uncle Jack off a horse
Dave
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So whenever I'm writing I often wonder about all kinds of small and silly language details. I just wondered what the (more?) correct translation of the Dutch word 'ingevuld' is. My first thought was 'fill out' (as in "can you fill out this questionnaire?"). Then I though 'fill in' (as in "can you fill in this questionnaire?"). Google Translate just gives me 'fill' when I give it 'invullen'. I think both are correct even though 'in' and 'out' are each others opposites... Of course 'fill in' can also be used in the following sentence: "Can you fill me in on the details?", where 'fill out' would be a no-go: "Can you fill me out on the details?". Any ideas on what I should use? In or out?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I think these are idiomatic phrases; there's no particular sense to the meaning of the specific words as an entity; native speakers have developed this phrase over time which people just understand the meaning. So, there's not a way to take phrase 1 from Dutch and translate it word-for-word; it's more about figuring out the context and replacing the entire phrase. I was told by a Dutchie a couple years ago about 'kip' and playing cards like a chicken, but it didn't mean afraid like English would take chicken. I can't remember exactly, but it was more like being nonsensical.
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I think these are idiomatic phrases; there's no particular sense to the meaning of the specific words as an entity; native speakers have developed this phrase over time which people just understand the meaning. So, there's not a way to take phrase 1 from Dutch and translate it word-for-word; it's more about figuring out the context and replacing the entire phrase. I was told by a Dutchie a couple years ago about 'kip' and playing cards like a chicken, but it didn't mean afraid like English would take chicken. I can't remember exactly, but it was more like being nonsensical.
Playing cards like a chicken? Never heard of that one before :laugh: I'm not about translating word for word, I understand the English language well enough not to do that :) But still, 'fill in' and 'fill out' makes no sense at all. We have stuff like that in Dutch too though! One of my favorite phrases to literally translate is "that shall be me a sausage!", which is what the Dutch say when they really don't care about something :laugh: Sounds so stupid in English, yet makes perfect sense in the Netherlands ;)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Playing cards like a chicken? Never heard of that one before :laugh: I'm not about translating word for word, I understand the English language well enough not to do that :) But still, 'fill in' and 'fill out' makes no sense at all. We have stuff like that in Dutch too though! One of my favorite phrases to literally translate is "that shall be me a sausage!", which is what the Dutch say when they really don't care about something :laugh: Sounds so stupid in English, yet makes perfect sense in the Netherlands ;)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Sander Rossel wrote:
"that shall be me a sausage!", which is what the Dutch say when they really don't care about something
Do the Dutch have a particular disregard for sausages then? Clearly this would not go down well in Britain where we use 'water off a duck's back' for the same meaning. English is full of totally contradictory expressions which actually mean the same thing and make the choice of 'in' and 'out' a very minor matter indeed. Puzzle instead how 'slim chance' and 'fat chance' can possibly both mean something isn't going to happen in a million years or 'flammable' and 'inflammable' both warn you to keep something away from the fire! Then you can really mess your brain up with how steep upward slopes in this green and pleasant land came to be called 'downs' and 'head over heels' came to be the standard expression for lifting your heels over your head!
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Sander Rossel wrote:
"that shall be me a sausage!", which is what the Dutch say when they really don't care about something
Do the Dutch have a particular disregard for sausages then? Clearly this would not go down well in Britain where we use 'water off a duck's back' for the same meaning. English is full of totally contradictory expressions which actually mean the same thing and make the choice of 'in' and 'out' a very minor matter indeed. Puzzle instead how 'slim chance' and 'fat chance' can possibly both mean something isn't going to happen in a million years or 'flammable' and 'inflammable' both warn you to keep something away from the fire! Then you can really mess your brain up with how steep upward slopes in this green and pleasant land came to be called 'downs' and 'head over heels' came to be the standard expression for lifting your heels over your head!
:laugh: I'm always amazed by ordinary and extraordinary. Ordinary is just something common, in the Netherlands it even has a negative feel to it. If someone is ordinary he or she has no class or style. Now if you are EXTRA ordinary you're everything but ordinary! How did that happen? :D And we use the words in Dutch too (spelled a little different), but with the same meaning: common and amazing :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I dare you to quickly repeat that 10 times.
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:laugh: I'm always amazed by ordinary and extraordinary. Ordinary is just something common, in the Netherlands it even has a negative feel to it. If someone is ordinary he or she has no class or style. Now if you are EXTRA ordinary you're everything but ordinary! How did that happen? :D And we use the words in Dutch too (spelled a little different), but with the same meaning: common and amazing :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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'Extra' in that case doesn't mean 'more' but 'outside' as in extra-terrestrial, extraneous etc. It's actually the meaning of 'extra' as a separate word that's extraordinary. Used as a prefix it always means, 'out', 'beyond' etc.
You deserve a medal for explaining that to me! It was one of those life questions that kept me up at night :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I won't be complete until I know the difference between fill in and fill out and why two opposites are used for the same thing :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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So whenever I'm writing I often wonder about all kinds of small and silly language details. I just wondered what the (more?) correct translation of the Dutch word 'ingevuld' is. My first thought was 'fill out' (as in "can you fill out this questionnaire?"). Then I though 'fill in' (as in "can you fill in this questionnaire?"). Google Translate just gives me 'fill' when I give it 'invullen'. I think both are correct even though 'in' and 'out' are each others opposites... Of course 'fill in' can also be used in the following sentence: "Can you fill me in on the details?", where 'fill out' would be a no-go: "Can you fill me out on the details?". Any ideas on what I should use? In or out?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
It translates literally as "having been filled in" - "in" is "in; "vuld" is "filled" and the "ge" part is the "been" (sort of). In German, "Abgefickt" would be "fucked up" or literally "having been fucked with/to/up" -- similar construction (note the "ge")...
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So whenever I'm writing I often wonder about all kinds of small and silly language details. I just wondered what the (more?) correct translation of the Dutch word 'ingevuld' is. My first thought was 'fill out' (as in "can you fill out this questionnaire?"). Then I though 'fill in' (as in "can you fill in this questionnaire?"). Google Translate just gives me 'fill' when I give it 'invullen'. I think both are correct even though 'in' and 'out' are each others opposites... Of course 'fill in' can also be used in the following sentence: "Can you fill me in on the details?", where 'fill out' would be a no-go: "Can you fill me out on the details?". Any ideas on what I should use? In or out?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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:laugh: :thumbsup:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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It translates literally as "having been filled in" - "in" is "in; "vuld" is "filled" and the "ge" part is the "been" (sort of). In German, "Abgefickt" would be "fucked up" or literally "having been fucked with/to/up" -- similar construction (note the "ge")...
Yeah, but that wouldn't make sense ;)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Yeah, but that wouldn't make sense ;)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Well, probably not if it were translated directly, word for word - but most things don't: you have to try to get the sense of it and do an idiomatic translation. In this case, "filled in" or "fill in" would be the phrase to use, depending on which one fits better in English.
