Is any one using MS Access?
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
Access is great for what it does. It's not for heavy lifting. I've used it for desktop apps where I've needed an independent db alongside the app - very handy for such things. You don't need a dba or any support personnel. You don't need installs or upgrades like you do with the big databases. I haven't tested it with lots of data; I know in the old days it was very weak/crash-able when you pushed its limits (eg, 30,000+ records).
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I have seen in use by businesses that have poor IT skills and got sold incredibly expensive applications biult with Access. Please, DON'T use it or recommend it. There are lots of free tools that do much more and are better supported.
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I've made four highly multi-user applications with Access, three now in use at manufacturing companies. The multi-user part is a challenge. I set these up so that each user gets their own appplication file on their client PC connected to the data file on the server. I've also made an auto-updater file that automatically updates the client PC with the latest files each time the user logs in.
Same here. I have an Access based application running my company for 18 years. I think it's ok up to 25 users. If we needed more users I would consider a back end based in SQL Server or Maria DB, but the front end is ok to make quick forms an reports. Our database is 800Mb and keeps tables with way more of 100k records. Just don't keep LBOs there, try a workaround and everything will be fine. If I started today I would choose another database engine. But then again, Access is taking care here of an aplication that involves invoicing, suply chain management, payrolls, bookkeeping, Document management, and some sophisticated functions like geolocation, web content management.. .etc
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I think most issues with Access come from inexperienced developers and a fussy user base. It's easy enough to build some simple things in Access and so people with limited knowledge think they can build high level tools. Those people are dangerous. Again - the problem is with who is developing, not the tool itself. If you know what Access is and you know how to design a proper UI and database, as well as code, then there is nothing that can match the ease and cost efficiency. I make a living at Access development and I have hundreds of applications in use. Many mutli-user environments. Many with massive amounts of data (though the bigger data sets use a SQL back end), and my user base is happy as can be. I can do more in .net, obviously, but the infrastructure is much more expensive. If you have an application that does not need to be online (forms-wise), Access is the cheapest, fastest way to go. And in the right hands, at least as powerful. People should stop blaming Access for the crappy skills of many of the people that try to develop in it.
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WE don't write forms or code in Acess MDB's, but my company still has applications that use MDB's to store data. We are slowly moving the SQL Express, but sadly the the answer is YES, people still use Access.
it does seem a mix bag of usage and divided opinions. I knew there would be a large legacy code base, but it does seem that its still very much alive. Like it said in my last post, its time for a survey, but I think it should just be for access not for other DB, so we can get an overall picture. With so many legacy systems still using it and developers less keen to be, err...'associated' with it , may be it will become a high pay niche sector, I'm thinking cobalt/Fortran/Ada etc
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No they are not - a MDB of ours edited with 2003 is no more usable on our machines. Something, somewhere, breaks. We'll fix when we'll change logging operations (it's in the TODO). Consider that there are 3 tables with no relation between them - it's fugly but that was what the best heads could come up to 15 years ago.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
An .mdb file is compatible with Access 2002/2003/2007/2010 - I only use .mdb files. If it's breaking it's probably a conversion issue, not compatibility. Instead of converting, try copying and pasting the data. Or, upload the data to SQL Server (Express) and then use a make-table query to bring it back to a newly created Access .mdb file.
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Professionally I use SQL Express, LocalDB and MySQL and couldn't think of any reason to use Access. Just though it was a hang over from another era, and looking at the comments, looks like it is. So why is it still shipped? MS has dropped other technologies over the years? I guess it still has a large user base
I think that about all I use Access for anymore is the "documenter". I use SQL Server but access has a neat and concise way to print off details of the tables that I haven't found anywhere in the stock SQL Management utility.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
I use MS Access on a regular basis, and have been doing so since v2 for Windows. When its limitations are taken into account, it is a useful tool. Pros: * portable, a MDB/ACCDB file can be transferred to any PC that has Office Professional loaded. No other setup is required. * excellent for one-off databases, easy to import data from various sources including Excel or other workbooks. * easy to use reporting works well for ad-hoc queries and experimentation. * easy to use for database prototyping, setting up indexes, foreign keys, etc. * can attach other data sources including Oracle and SQL*Server db. Cons: * Doesn't do multi-user well, especially above 5 concurrent users. * Can be slow with larger record sets (above 100k records). Large databases on a network are VERY slow. * File can be corrupted (need to compact on close), especially in multi-user environments. [Requires daily backups] Non-Technical Issues: * Non-IT professionals build horrendous databases with it. The basics are easy to use but it requires a db savvy person to do more with it. * IT professionals use Access in situation where "normal" DBMS should have been used, due to the limitations of the platform. * has a bad reputation, mostly due (IMO) to the last 2 points. Benefits: * Works in small office situations that do not have and/or cannot afford a larger db. * Good for single user and low concurrent user situations, with small datasets. MS Access is a good tool, in its own arena. Take it out of that arena and you're pounding nails with your pliers ....
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MS stopped making improvements in Access with the 2003 version. But - they have improved Access for power users since then. It doesn't make sense for MS to put resources into improving two products for the same set of developers. The IDE in VS is much better than the IDE in Access.
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Access is great for what it does. It's not for heavy lifting. I've used it for desktop apps where I've needed an independent db alongside the app - very handy for such things. You don't need a dba or any support personnel. You don't need installs or upgrades like you do with the big databases. I haven't tested it with lots of data; I know in the old days it was very weak/crash-able when you pushed its limits (eg, 30,000+ records).
I do lots of heavy lifting with Access and much more than 30k records. also for really large data sets, a SQL back end solves the issues. Then you use passthrough queries to allow the SQL server to do all of the heavy lifting of searching data and handling calculations. It's a great front end.
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Professionally I use SQL Express, LocalDB and MySQL and couldn't think of any reason to use Access. Just though it was a hang over from another era, and looking at the comments, looks like it is. So why is it still shipped? MS has dropped other technologies over the years? I guess it still has a large user base
Access is part of about 90% of my development projects. Usually as a RAD front end to MySQL, PostgresSQL, Oracle, SQL Server, and sometimes more than one at the same time. How many dev tools do you know that can connect to SQL Server, MySQL and Oracle at the same time? The ACE DB Engine is really only good for apps with tables less than 100K records, or so, but Access makes a great desktop front-end. Access != ACE (Access <> ACE for the VB fans). Yes, it's best use is for desktop apps connected to shared data for 20 or less people (up to 50 with a RDBMS back-end). The Sharepoint/web integration is basically hell, since you can only use macros (no VBA). Using macros is like trying to build a house when the only tool you have is a bag of sporks. Although, the new JavaScript integration in 2016 may help change that. As I've grown as a coder, it took me a while to understand certain concepts that are now must have features in modern languages/ide's: Managed Code, VBA in Access has always been managed. Lambda Expressions, oh, you mean you can just create a function and call it from anywhere? You know, like a function in an Access module rather than class. Binding fields in a table to controls on a form is ridiculously easy (built-in sanitizing, character limits that match the field, data-types, a plethora of events to add validations, etc.). Don't worry if this frightens you, its lack of layers scares many. But, then again, you may not want to listen to me as I am a wildling coder. After some excellent instruction in high school, I did not go the the ivory towers and have spent most of my career on the other side of the wall between IT and everyone else... solving problems as quickly and efficiently as I can, with only the tools I have available to me.
"But then, something happened that the ring did not intend." - Fellowship of the Ring
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I use MS Access on a regular basis, and have been doing so since v2 for Windows. When its limitations are taken into account, it is a useful tool. Pros: * portable, a MDB/ACCDB file can be transferred to any PC that has Office Professional loaded. No other setup is required. * excellent for one-off databases, easy to import data from various sources including Excel or other workbooks. * easy to use reporting works well for ad-hoc queries and experimentation. * easy to use for database prototyping, setting up indexes, foreign keys, etc. * can attach other data sources including Oracle and SQL*Server db. Cons: * Doesn't do multi-user well, especially above 5 concurrent users. * Can be slow with larger record sets (above 100k records). Large databases on a network are VERY slow. * File can be corrupted (need to compact on close), especially in multi-user environments. [Requires daily backups] Non-Technical Issues: * Non-IT professionals build horrendous databases with it. The basics are easy to use but it requires a db savvy person to do more with it. * IT professionals use Access in situation where "normal" DBMS should have been used, due to the limitations of the platform. * has a bad reputation, mostly due (IMO) to the last 2 points. Benefits: * Works in small office situations that do not have and/or cannot afford a larger db. * Good for single user and low concurrent user situations, with small datasets. MS Access is a good tool, in its own arena. Take it out of that arena and you're pounding nails with your pliers ....
Gotta disagree with a couple of your cons. I build large-scale Access projects. Some have 100's of users. stick all those folks in one front end and yea - Access blows. But I don't know any serious people that do that. I use replicas of the front end. Some choose to deploy separate front ends for each user - what a nightmare. I choose to create replicas upon opening (Open from one location, a copy is created, user is pushed to their copy). All pretty seamless and no one is ever in the same copy at the same time and I don't have to push builds to anyone. Can't say I've never had a corrupted record with this method - but it's rare. Especially if the data is housed in a SQL back end. With the right developer, Access is really great in a multi-user environment. I've yet to have a project exceed it's limits. The single limitation for me is that it is not web based. That is a major issue more and more. But I also find developers pushing web based tools when the web is not required. It just ends up costing a lot more.
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Gotta disagree with a couple of your cons. I build large-scale Access projects. Some have 100's of users. stick all those folks in one front end and yea - Access blows. But I don't know any serious people that do that. I use replicas of the front end. Some choose to deploy separate front ends for each user - what a nightmare. I choose to create replicas upon opening (Open from one location, a copy is created, user is pushed to their copy). All pretty seamless and no one is ever in the same copy at the same time and I don't have to push builds to anyone. Can't say I've never had a corrupted record with this method - but it's rare. Especially if the data is housed in a SQL back end. With the right developer, Access is really great in a multi-user environment. I've yet to have a project exceed it's limits. The single limitation for me is that it is not web based. That is a major issue more and more. But I also find developers pushing web based tools when the web is not required. It just ends up costing a lot more.
I had to google 'Access replication'. Cool! How does Compact work? Same as normal, when the last user logs out? While I don't currently have a need for a multi-user Access app, I will keep this in my bag of tricks. Thanks!
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
Within a single physical file you have: 1. form design tools, 2. a high level, human-like programming language that helps to minimize logical errors, 3. no need to mess around with silly compilers, 4. A complete set of SQL (database) commands for fast storage and retrieval of relational tables. What more do you want…? Join the club of anti-curly bracket idiotic coding techniques…
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I had to google 'Access replication'. Cool! How does Compact work? Same as normal, when the last user logs out? While I don't currently have a need for a multi-user Access app, I will keep this in my bag of tricks. Thanks!
Because their front end is refreshed every single time they open it, when they close one version it's considered dead. So no compacting needed. Imagine a main front end that's 20 MB. The user opens it and a new 20 mb file is created. They use the file all day and it grows to 25mb. They close it. when they re-open the file, they are opening the original 20mb file that was never used, thus their latest version is 20mb. Then on some regular basis, we keep the back end compacted. Maybe once a month.
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I had to google 'Access replication'. Cool! How does Compact work? Same as normal, when the last user logs out? While I don't currently have a need for a multi-user Access app, I will keep this in my bag of tricks. Thanks!
By the way, when I say Replica - I just mean an exact copy of the front end. Not replicated data. Everyone shares one back end set of tables. So the data is not moved around to each person's DB physically.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
I've used Access for years to query Access (.MDB), Excel, FoxPro (.DBC; .DBF), SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL and Postgresql databases. Using the available database drivers, one can query, join, translate, save and / or export data (i.e. ETL) from multiple heterogeneous sources at the same time. For years, the Access "engine" ("Jet") has been used as a database API in VB and VBA for accessing SQL Server databases. I don't develop apps with it; but do use it to help develop apps; particularly when it comes to data / frequency analysis. There are technical reasons / restrictions why Access should not be used as a server in a "big database" production environment, but it's not due to any limitations in its abilities; e.g. "ad-hoc" Access reporting is a lot easier than SQL Server Reporting Services, IMO.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
It's beyond totally gross for implementation of anything; especially if you have an object-oriented C# background; such as myself. My version was Visual Basic (shudders). However, I have used MS Access, implemented solutions and it does have some benefits. If you want to use it for a real-time production system; Access isn't a solution for that. It's best to think of access as a database system for a small number of users; Excel with a better programming/forms interface. I've used it in a corporate setting for some simple multi-team workflow processes to be managed, as part of a development effort. Why not write a Windows form application, etc.? It boiled down to corporate standards; the cost/time to provision a server with all of it's security policy overhead was simply unjustified. Access, at least in that space, was ubiquitous which means anybody could install/run it, and it was there to fit a need, when filling out email forms was error prone and led to a lot of misunderstandings.
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DanW52 wrote:
Power users
Never, ever, give power to a user. Nothing good can result.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
Microsoft Access is still used in offices that need a simple method to generate a Windows front end along with a database for storage. If you do not use it for that you can use it for importing excel spreadsheets or CSVs into a database, execute queries, gather numbers, modify the query into a SQL statement, connect to a SQL Server and append the information into database. SQL servers can be connected using ODBC drivers, thus allowing you to extract data for the purpose of gaining statistical information. Access has it uses in any type of office that has a SQL server or if you need to have a multi-user Windows application but do not have a budget for a programmer or DBA. It is simple to set up and use. You can also interface into almost any Office product (Word , Excel, etc.) to provide a data source for mail merges, letters, etc. Sure it is a resource hog taking up network bandwidth, disk space but I bet after viewing hundreds of locations there are MS Access Applications in use. You can always visit baronsoftware.com for further information.
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DanW52 wrote:
Power users
Never, ever, give power to a user. Nothing good can result.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey