Is any one using MS Access?
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MS stopped making improvements in Access with the 2003 version. But - they have improved Access for power users since then. It doesn't make sense for MS to put resources into improving two products for the same set of developers. The IDE in VS is much better than the IDE in Access.
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Access is great for what it does. It's not for heavy lifting. I've used it for desktop apps where I've needed an independent db alongside the app - very handy for such things. You don't need a dba or any support personnel. You don't need installs or upgrades like you do with the big databases. I haven't tested it with lots of data; I know in the old days it was very weak/crash-able when you pushed its limits (eg, 30,000+ records).
I do lots of heavy lifting with Access and much more than 30k records. also for really large data sets, a SQL back end solves the issues. Then you use passthrough queries to allow the SQL server to do all of the heavy lifting of searching data and handling calculations. It's a great front end.
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Professionally I use SQL Express, LocalDB and MySQL and couldn't think of any reason to use Access. Just though it was a hang over from another era, and looking at the comments, looks like it is. So why is it still shipped? MS has dropped other technologies over the years? I guess it still has a large user base
Access is part of about 90% of my development projects. Usually as a RAD front end to MySQL, PostgresSQL, Oracle, SQL Server, and sometimes more than one at the same time. How many dev tools do you know that can connect to SQL Server, MySQL and Oracle at the same time? The ACE DB Engine is really only good for apps with tables less than 100K records, or so, but Access makes a great desktop front-end. Access != ACE (Access <> ACE for the VB fans). Yes, it's best use is for desktop apps connected to shared data for 20 or less people (up to 50 with a RDBMS back-end). The Sharepoint/web integration is basically hell, since you can only use macros (no VBA). Using macros is like trying to build a house when the only tool you have is a bag of sporks. Although, the new JavaScript integration in 2016 may help change that. As I've grown as a coder, it took me a while to understand certain concepts that are now must have features in modern languages/ide's: Managed Code, VBA in Access has always been managed. Lambda Expressions, oh, you mean you can just create a function and call it from anywhere? You know, like a function in an Access module rather than class. Binding fields in a table to controls on a form is ridiculously easy (built-in sanitizing, character limits that match the field, data-types, a plethora of events to add validations, etc.). Don't worry if this frightens you, its lack of layers scares many. But, then again, you may not want to listen to me as I am a wildling coder. After some excellent instruction in high school, I did not go the the ivory towers and have spent most of my career on the other side of the wall between IT and everyone else... solving problems as quickly and efficiently as I can, with only the tools I have available to me.
"But then, something happened that the ring did not intend." - Fellowship of the Ring
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I use MS Access on a regular basis, and have been doing so since v2 for Windows. When its limitations are taken into account, it is a useful tool. Pros: * portable, a MDB/ACCDB file can be transferred to any PC that has Office Professional loaded. No other setup is required. * excellent for one-off databases, easy to import data from various sources including Excel or other workbooks. * easy to use reporting works well for ad-hoc queries and experimentation. * easy to use for database prototyping, setting up indexes, foreign keys, etc. * can attach other data sources including Oracle and SQL*Server db. Cons: * Doesn't do multi-user well, especially above 5 concurrent users. * Can be slow with larger record sets (above 100k records). Large databases on a network are VERY slow. * File can be corrupted (need to compact on close), especially in multi-user environments. [Requires daily backups] Non-Technical Issues: * Non-IT professionals build horrendous databases with it. The basics are easy to use but it requires a db savvy person to do more with it. * IT professionals use Access in situation where "normal" DBMS should have been used, due to the limitations of the platform. * has a bad reputation, mostly due (IMO) to the last 2 points. Benefits: * Works in small office situations that do not have and/or cannot afford a larger db. * Good for single user and low concurrent user situations, with small datasets. MS Access is a good tool, in its own arena. Take it out of that arena and you're pounding nails with your pliers ....
Gotta disagree with a couple of your cons. I build large-scale Access projects. Some have 100's of users. stick all those folks in one front end and yea - Access blows. But I don't know any serious people that do that. I use replicas of the front end. Some choose to deploy separate front ends for each user - what a nightmare. I choose to create replicas upon opening (Open from one location, a copy is created, user is pushed to their copy). All pretty seamless and no one is ever in the same copy at the same time and I don't have to push builds to anyone. Can't say I've never had a corrupted record with this method - but it's rare. Especially if the data is housed in a SQL back end. With the right developer, Access is really great in a multi-user environment. I've yet to have a project exceed it's limits. The single limitation for me is that it is not web based. That is a major issue more and more. But I also find developers pushing web based tools when the web is not required. It just ends up costing a lot more.
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Gotta disagree with a couple of your cons. I build large-scale Access projects. Some have 100's of users. stick all those folks in one front end and yea - Access blows. But I don't know any serious people that do that. I use replicas of the front end. Some choose to deploy separate front ends for each user - what a nightmare. I choose to create replicas upon opening (Open from one location, a copy is created, user is pushed to their copy). All pretty seamless and no one is ever in the same copy at the same time and I don't have to push builds to anyone. Can't say I've never had a corrupted record with this method - but it's rare. Especially if the data is housed in a SQL back end. With the right developer, Access is really great in a multi-user environment. I've yet to have a project exceed it's limits. The single limitation for me is that it is not web based. That is a major issue more and more. But I also find developers pushing web based tools when the web is not required. It just ends up costing a lot more.
I had to google 'Access replication'. Cool! How does Compact work? Same as normal, when the last user logs out? While I don't currently have a need for a multi-user Access app, I will keep this in my bag of tricks. Thanks!
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
Within a single physical file you have: 1. form design tools, 2. a high level, human-like programming language that helps to minimize logical errors, 3. no need to mess around with silly compilers, 4. A complete set of SQL (database) commands for fast storage and retrieval of relational tables. What more do you want…? Join the club of anti-curly bracket idiotic coding techniques…
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I had to google 'Access replication'. Cool! How does Compact work? Same as normal, when the last user logs out? While I don't currently have a need for a multi-user Access app, I will keep this in my bag of tricks. Thanks!
Because their front end is refreshed every single time they open it, when they close one version it's considered dead. So no compacting needed. Imagine a main front end that's 20 MB. The user opens it and a new 20 mb file is created. They use the file all day and it grows to 25mb. They close it. when they re-open the file, they are opening the original 20mb file that was never used, thus their latest version is 20mb. Then on some regular basis, we keep the back end compacted. Maybe once a month.
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I had to google 'Access replication'. Cool! How does Compact work? Same as normal, when the last user logs out? While I don't currently have a need for a multi-user Access app, I will keep this in my bag of tricks. Thanks!
By the way, when I say Replica - I just mean an exact copy of the front end. Not replicated data. Everyone shares one back end set of tables. So the data is not moved around to each person's DB physically.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
I've used Access for years to query Access (.MDB), Excel, FoxPro (.DBC; .DBF), SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL and Postgresql databases. Using the available database drivers, one can query, join, translate, save and / or export data (i.e. ETL) from multiple heterogeneous sources at the same time. For years, the Access "engine" ("Jet") has been used as a database API in VB and VBA for accessing SQL Server databases. I don't develop apps with it; but do use it to help develop apps; particularly when it comes to data / frequency analysis. There are technical reasons / restrictions why Access should not be used as a server in a "big database" production environment, but it's not due to any limitations in its abilities; e.g. "ad-hoc" Access reporting is a lot easier than SQL Server Reporting Services, IMO.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
It's beyond totally gross for implementation of anything; especially if you have an object-oriented C# background; such as myself. My version was Visual Basic (shudders). However, I have used MS Access, implemented solutions and it does have some benefits. If you want to use it for a real-time production system; Access isn't a solution for that. It's best to think of access as a database system for a small number of users; Excel with a better programming/forms interface. I've used it in a corporate setting for some simple multi-team workflow processes to be managed, as part of a development effort. Why not write a Windows form application, etc.? It boiled down to corporate standards; the cost/time to provision a server with all of it's security policy overhead was simply unjustified. Access, at least in that space, was ubiquitous which means anybody could install/run it, and it was there to fit a need, when filling out email forms was error prone and led to a lot of misunderstandings.
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DanW52 wrote:
Power users
Never, ever, give power to a user. Nothing good can result.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
Microsoft Access is still used in offices that need a simple method to generate a Windows front end along with a database for storage. If you do not use it for that you can use it for importing excel spreadsheets or CSVs into a database, execute queries, gather numbers, modify the query into a SQL statement, connect to a SQL Server and append the information into database. SQL servers can be connected using ODBC drivers, thus allowing you to extract data for the purpose of gaining statistical information. Access has it uses in any type of office that has a SQL server or if you need to have a multi-user Windows application but do not have a budget for a programmer or DBA. It is simple to set up and use. You can also interface into almost any Office product (Word , Excel, etc.) to provide a data source for mail merges, letters, etc. Sure it is a resource hog taking up network bandwidth, disk space but I bet after viewing hundreds of locations there are MS Access Applications in use. You can always visit baronsoftware.com for further information.
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DanW52 wrote:
Power users
Never, ever, give power to a user. Nothing good can result.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
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Access is part of about 90% of my development projects. Usually as a RAD front end to MySQL, PostgresSQL, Oracle, SQL Server, and sometimes more than one at the same time. How many dev tools do you know that can connect to SQL Server, MySQL and Oracle at the same time? The ACE DB Engine is really only good for apps with tables less than 100K records, or so, but Access makes a great desktop front-end. Access != ACE (Access <> ACE for the VB fans). Yes, it's best use is for desktop apps connected to shared data for 20 or less people (up to 50 with a RDBMS back-end). The Sharepoint/web integration is basically hell, since you can only use macros (no VBA). Using macros is like trying to build a house when the only tool you have is a bag of sporks. Although, the new JavaScript integration in 2016 may help change that. As I've grown as a coder, it took me a while to understand certain concepts that are now must have features in modern languages/ide's: Managed Code, VBA in Access has always been managed. Lambda Expressions, oh, you mean you can just create a function and call it from anywhere? You know, like a function in an Access module rather than class. Binding fields in a table to controls on a form is ridiculously easy (built-in sanitizing, character limits that match the field, data-types, a plethora of events to add validations, etc.). Don't worry if this frightens you, its lack of layers scares many. But, then again, you may not want to listen to me as I am a wildling coder. After some excellent instruction in high school, I did not go the the ivory towers and have spent most of my career on the other side of the wall between IT and everyone else... solving problems as quickly and efficiently as I can, with only the tools I have available to me.
"But then, something happened that the ring did not intend." - Fellowship of the Ring
Though I wouldn't want to try to support a commercial multi customer app in Access (did that), it's a very useful companion tool to any development and great, especially due to integration with excel, as a tool in data conversions. I use .NET, node and other modern tools, and cram until my head aches to try to stay up to date, but I also use Access as a flexible utility, data monitor, checker, builder, relater. i can whip up a form to watch or query certain data that i need to look at on the fly when developing. plus i have a few customers that still use and like access. if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Power users can make good use of Access if they limit themselves to what they know, and they don't try to make it a multi-user application.
Agreed, that is how I use it, only when it makes sense for a specific purpose.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
We will pry MS Access from my boss's cold dead hands. Our major backend processing uses it and we have to adapt our SQL Server processes and tables to it's limitations. Attempts to get him to recode to SQL Server have fallen on deaf ears. I've always wondered why Microsoft has not put an Access frontend to SQL Server. Drag and Drop query creation is far less intimidating than SQL and you still have the option to edit the Drag and Drop SQL generated. The Report generator would be nice for SQL Server as well.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
I have been using ACCESS for 20+ years. I have a client whose entire business runs on Access based software and she has had no problems for 18 years except when MS decided to not have backwards compatibility with certain functions or features as it released new versions. I have used it to keep my consulting business client work status and billing records for most of the 20 years. A colleague and I have been using it in as part of a commercial science researcher utilized product (VB for code and Access for the database) for 10 years without any Access problems; VB has given us may more problems as MS changed, dropped, etc. functions, function calls, etc. I noted at least one commenter stated that is is a terrible product and that a great many terrible applications have been written by bad programmers using it. Well, I have done software quality assurance for JPL/NASA and I can tell you that I've seen terrible programs written in over 20 programming languages and some utilizing a number of databases for back ends. I've seen terrible Oracle and DB2 code. A terrible software architect will design terrible software; and it goes all the way down to the terrible coder creating terrible code. This is not the criteria to use when deciding if some language or database system is the correct one to use for some purpose. ACCESS is great for simple database applications. It can be used for some rather complex ones also. It depends on the design of the database, the design of the code, the amount of time you are willing to spend learning relational database design and learning to code in Access's programming language. ACCESS is worth taking a look at and getting a decent book is the first step. I've not bought a new ACCESS book since Office 2007, so can't recommend one to you.
Charles Wolfe C. Wolfe Software Engineering
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
I work as a file clerk for a government agency, and I worked with a guy who developed an Access application that parsed reports from our department mainframe into various smaller/localized reports, research tools, and worksheets for use by other clerks in our office. Some of these reports even make it all the way to department managers and HQ. It's a really handy little thing but he's not a strong programmer and the guy who actually designed it isn't around anymore. I made the mistake of mentioning I had programming skills... and here I am getting caught up in it. So when you're not able to install real technology, Access can fill the void. But it's painful. If you can convince your IT to let you use real programming tools and database libraries you'd be much better off.
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Just updated office 365 and along with it Access 2016. I've never used it. Does anyone use it? What for? and should I?
Was my first database, it's been 3+ :sigh: years since I last used it.
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I use MS-Access. There is no other choice if you need a multi-user database shared over a network, and you can not install SQL Server or any other database server. You cannot achieve this with SQLite or SqlServer Compact Edition.
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I believe even Microsoft has said to NOT use Access for multi-user database shared over a network.