Face my enemy...
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In two weeks I'd have a math test. I paid dearly for it and if I don't pass the test I'll pay dearly again. And I'm hating math so much that I don't even care about the money anymore... I'm just not doing any more math and I'm certainly not doing the test! :mad: I don't think I have to know math to be a good (or even great) developer. I do need to know math to get my degree though, so I've decided to do things a little different from what I've been doing... To like and understand math I'm going to blog about it. That's right, I'm going to face math, look it in the uhhh... pi, and write it down for myself and others. And by doing so I hope I'll start liking it as I have the freedom to figure it all out at my own pace and write about the things I like about it. And then maybe I can have another look at that math test in a year or so. I'm a bit concerned about LaTeX though (never used it before). WordPress does have out of the box LaTeX support, but does anyone know a good and free LaTeX editor plugin? I'm not looking forward to looking up all those character codes to write a single formula... :~
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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When hiring for computer science positions in the Engineering field, math and artistic talent are the two most important things we look at. No math talent, no artistic talent, no interest!
bwallan wrote:
artistic talent
I have a Bachelor Common Arts and Cultural Sciences as well as a Master Media and Journalism, giving me the title of Master of Arts :D Programming is mostly rules though. It's never a good thing when I find 'artistic code' :sigh: And I know some math majors who really aren't the best programmers :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I've encountered two situations, one, where the math PhD's came up with an incredibly complicated algorithm for processing multispectral data (took on the order of minutes to process 6 frames of multispectral video) which, when I realized what they were doing, I converted all the FFT and bullshit into a real time lookup table transformation. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: The second was again thrown at the PhD's, this time to determine pass/fail modes in a switch ring redundancy network (stuff put into communication satellites to ensure that when a high power amplifier fails, you can switch to a spare, and it gets complicated because you're not switching electrical signals, you're switching radio waves via waveguides and whatnot, so there's physical space/weight limitations), anyways, the PhD's were trying to solve this for years. After thinking (yes, just thinking) about the problem for a couple weeks, I realized that there were simple topology rules that could be used to analyze a network. Granted, it still took horsepower, but I delivered a solution (that was 20 years ago) that is still in place and has evolved into a multi-threaded analysis application that solves for trillions of switch combinations and failure combinations in realistic time (a few hours) of churning. Funny how in both cases, what was thought to be a math problem turned out to be not a math problem, but a "think about the problem" exercise. So yeah, math is definitely needed for certain things, but the #1 rule is, just because you have a math degree hammer, not everything is a math degree nail. If it helps, math is a beautiful universal truth. Think of math as discovering the truth of something. ;) Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project!
Marc Clifton wrote:
So yeah, math is definitely needed for certain things, but the #1 rule is, just because you have a math degree hammer, not everything is a math degree nail.
:thumbsup: :laugh:
Marc Clifton wrote:
If it helps, math is a beautiful universal truth. Think of math as discovering the truth of something. ;)
The only truth I discovered so far is that I'm really bad at math :sigh: I know what you mean though, that's one reason I want to get better at it :)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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bwallan wrote:
artistic talent
I have a Bachelor Common Arts and Cultural Sciences as well as a Master Media and Journalism, giving me the title of Master of Arts :D Programming is mostly rules though. It's never a good thing when I find 'artistic code' :sigh: And I know some math majors who really aren't the best programmers :D
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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Artistic talent is normally a good indication of creativity. That and good math skills are what we've found yields the best software developer / programmer. If I require a "plugger", I can hire an Engineer.
bwallan wrote:
Artistic talent is normally a good indication of creativity. That and good math skills are what we've found yields the best software developer / programmer
What kind of application will this person code? And is a BSc or MSc degree required to be hired?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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bwallan wrote:
Artistic talent is normally a good indication of creativity. That and good math skills are what we've found yields the best software developer / programmer
What kind of application will this person code? And is a BSc or MSc degree required to be hired?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Pretty much anything an Engineer can think up for which to write software. Everything from converting a sophisticated Excel spreadsheet to a corporate application to writing a simulation model for economics or some process in the Oil & Gas industry. We normally hire B.Sc. Computer Science grads and offer funding to complete a M.Sc. if the individual wishes to go that route. But a smart, creative B.Sc. individual can work wonders!
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Pretty much anything an Engineer can think up for which to write software. Everything from converting a sophisticated Excel spreadsheet to a corporate application to writing a simulation model for economics or some process in the Oil & Gas industry. We normally hire B.Sc. Computer Science grads and offer funding to complete a M.Sc. if the individual wishes to go that route. But a smart, creative B.Sc. individual can work wonders!
bwallan wrote:
But a smart, creative B.Sc. individual can work wonders!
Any smart individual with a passion can work wonders ;) Formal schooling means nothing to me. Well, it means you've been able to stand school for a couple of years, which is actually bad enough as it is. Unfortunately school means a lot to other people (like you) though :sigh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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bwallan wrote:
But a smart, creative B.Sc. individual can work wonders!
Any smart individual with a passion can work wonders ;) Formal schooling means nothing to me. Well, it means you've been able to stand school for a couple of years, which is actually bad enough as it is. Unfortunately school means a lot to other people (like you) though :sigh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Formal schooling means the world! It means a person has the capacity to think and a solid knowledge base as a foundation on which to add experience. I've fired far too many "experts" that think experience is the total package. It isn't! As for your "couple of years", a university degree is four years. A couple of years indicates a technical school certificate which means close to nothing in our organization(s). It might be good for an automobile mechanic, electrician or plumber but not for computer science!
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Formal schooling means the world! It means a person has the capacity to think and a solid knowledge base as a foundation on which to add experience. I've fired far too many "experts" that think experience is the total package. It isn't! As for your "couple of years", a university degree is four years. A couple of years indicates a technical school certificate which means close to nothing in our organization(s). It might be good for an automobile mechanic, electrician or plumber but not for computer science!
bwallan wrote:
Formal schooling means the world! It means a person has the capacity to think and a solid knowledge base as a foundation on which to add experience.
I guess I have to agree with you there... I know very few people who haven't enjoyed formal schooling, but could still be considered "smart" or "bright". Although I know very few people who haven't had formal schooling, mostly some old folks. And in the Netherlands we have 'levels' of schooling (kind of like attending school at low, medium or high difficulty) and there's usually a clear distinction in "smarts" between people from different levels of education. Of course I can't say if better schooling makes smarter or if smarter people attend better schools ;) That said, proper formal education does not guarantee a good programmer. I know people with a university degree in programming, physics or maths, yet they just don't seem to understand programming.
bwallan wrote:
experience is the total package. It isn't!
Couldn't agree more! I've worked with a "senior developer with over eight years of experience" and we got into a lot of arguments because I surpassed him after a year of experience (which, of course, he didn't like). I should add I was really a better programmer after a year, coming from zero, and this isn't me being an arrogant jerk. The problem is he had been doing the same thing for eight years, which doesn't equal eight years of experience. I see that a lot. Working for x time in a certain field does not give you x time experience. Currently I have over five years of experience and some formal schooling (studying at Open University, where, as you can read, I'm stuck on maths). Additionally I got me some Microsoft certificates (to make up for that lack of formal schooling) in C# and SQL Server. I wonder, based on that, would you (purely theoretical) consider me for a job interview?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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bwallan wrote:
Formal schooling means the world! It means a person has the capacity to think and a solid knowledge base as a foundation on which to add experience.
I guess I have to agree with you there... I know very few people who haven't enjoyed formal schooling, but could still be considered "smart" or "bright". Although I know very few people who haven't had formal schooling, mostly some old folks. And in the Netherlands we have 'levels' of schooling (kind of like attending school at low, medium or high difficulty) and there's usually a clear distinction in "smarts" between people from different levels of education. Of course I can't say if better schooling makes smarter or if smarter people attend better schools ;) That said, proper formal education does not guarantee a good programmer. I know people with a university degree in programming, physics or maths, yet they just don't seem to understand programming.
bwallan wrote:
experience is the total package. It isn't!
Couldn't agree more! I've worked with a "senior developer with over eight years of experience" and we got into a lot of arguments because I surpassed him after a year of experience (which, of course, he didn't like). I should add I was really a better programmer after a year, coming from zero, and this isn't me being an arrogant jerk. The problem is he had been doing the same thing for eight years, which doesn't equal eight years of experience. I see that a lot. Working for x time in a certain field does not give you x time experience. Currently I have over five years of experience and some formal schooling (studying at Open University, where, as you can read, I'm stuck on maths). Additionally I got me some Microsoft certificates (to make up for that lack of formal schooling) in C# and SQL Server. I wonder, based on that, would you (purely theoretical) consider me for a job interview?
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Sander, We only hire IT personnel with at least a B.Sc. in Computer Science and a strong indicator for artistic talent. We want a "creative/intelligent" person with a formal Computer Science education; someone to whom we can assign a project, and have him/her design a solution and carry it through to a final application (or system). Add the experience gained from varied development projects and you have a powerful development team. Maybe we are being narrow-minded? But in the 40+ years I've been in this business this approach has worked out the best for us and people we've hired, some of whom have been with us for 30+ years. bwa
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Sander, We only hire IT personnel with at least a B.Sc. in Computer Science and a strong indicator for artistic talent. We want a "creative/intelligent" person with a formal Computer Science education; someone to whom we can assign a project, and have him/her design a solution and carry it through to a final application (or system). Add the experience gained from varied development projects and you have a powerful development team. Maybe we are being narrow-minded? But in the 40+ years I've been in this business this approach has worked out the best for us and people we've hired, some of whom have been with us for 30+ years. bwa
bwallan wrote:
Maybe we are being narrow-minded?
Well, a little if you think that only people with at least a B.Sc. can be good programmers, but I'm sure that's not what you're saying :) In fact I now work at a company with the same policy (I guess I only got in because they were in dire need of people). Their reason is because if someone messes up at a customer at least my company can say the person has all the right education. In my case the customer could complain that I'm a friggin art major coming to do their IT! I get that. Compare it to other professions, like lawyers, doctors, pilots... A degree is necessary by law to work in those fields! I guess we're lucky (well, I'm lucky) that anyone can work in IT. If you can get enough educated employees it's a luxury that you can only hire those. You've frustrated me a little because I'm pretty sure I'd do good at your company (well, I don't know what you do, but let's say for a moment it's something I know), but I'm not getting in because I lack the required education. Let's put it this way, at my current company I'm the only one without technical/IT education, but in no way am I behind in knowledge (well, some people know more about some stuff, but I know more about other stuff). At my previous company I was also the only one without a technical/IT degree, but I left because I was done learning and I was the one doing the teaching! It's all the more reason to get that degree though... Which is going to take me about ten more years next to a full time job etc. X| Thanks, I've found it very interesting to hear your point of view on this topic.
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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bwallan wrote:
Maybe we are being narrow-minded?
Well, a little if you think that only people with at least a B.Sc. can be good programmers, but I'm sure that's not what you're saying :) In fact I now work at a company with the same policy (I guess I only got in because they were in dire need of people). Their reason is because if someone messes up at a customer at least my company can say the person has all the right education. In my case the customer could complain that I'm a friggin art major coming to do their IT! I get that. Compare it to other professions, like lawyers, doctors, pilots... A degree is necessary by law to work in those fields! I guess we're lucky (well, I'm lucky) that anyone can work in IT. If you can get enough educated employees it's a luxury that you can only hire those. You've frustrated me a little because I'm pretty sure I'd do good at your company (well, I don't know what you do, but let's say for a moment it's something I know), but I'm not getting in because I lack the required education. Let's put it this way, at my current company I'm the only one without technical/IT education, but in no way am I behind in knowledge (well, some people know more about some stuff, but I know more about other stuff). At my previous company I was also the only one without a technical/IT degree, but I left because I was done learning and I was the one doing the teaching! It's all the more reason to get that degree though... Which is going to take me about ten more years next to a full time job etc. X| Thanks, I've found it very interesting to hear your point of view on this topic.
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
"You've frustrated me a little because I'm pretty sure I'd do good at your company (well, I don't know what you do, but let's say for a moment it's something I know), but I'm not getting in because I lack the required education." I don't know what you do at your current company but I know a proficiency in math & physics, system analysis/design, etc. is a necessary requirement in our area of expertise, i.e.: reservoir simulation models, refinery modelling, mechanical vibration analysis, oil & gas economics simulation models, etc. In most cases a two year Technical degree simply doesn't work out well...
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Nevertheless mathematics can be fascinating. I'll read your blog about it with pleasure. Unfortunately, I can't help for the LaTex-plugin thing :s
I never finish anyth
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phil.o wrote:
Nevertheless mathematics can be fascinating.
For me, it is a great spectator sport.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
