How many of you believe in alien life?
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Chris Losinger wrote: and only a dreamer would conclude that there Must be life on other planets based on nothing but numbers. How so? So much we know is based on numbers. A lot of scientific facts were established by trial and error and on the basis of numerics. Are you saying that out of a billion billion billion billion (and possibly more) star systems out there the chances of a start having a planet with life are so low as to make the thinking of it a mere dream? Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: Are you saying that out of a billion billion billion billion (and possibly more) star systems out there the chances of a start having a planet with life are so low as to make the thinking of it a mere dream? we don't even know how life here got started (we really don't). if we don't know that, how can we run the numbers for any other system? sure, there could be something we would recognize as life (or life we wouldn't recognize), somewhere. and i could win the lottery (as soon as North Carolina allows one). but treating either possibility as anything more than a dream is a waste of my time and energy. -c
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Nishant S wrote: And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. But for millions of people religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe. And while I am here I might as well just go ahead and mention god and Britney Spears... ;P
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: But for millions of people religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe I guess so. It must be totally against their mindsets to try and accept a concept that will disagree with their religious beliefs. Konstantin Vasserman wrote: And while I am here I might as well just go ahead and mention god and Britney Spears... Uhm okay. I dont know if anyone will be insulted because you mentioned both of them in the same sentence. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Nishant S wrote: And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. But for millions of people religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe. And while I am here I might as well just go ahead and mention god and Britney Spears... ;P
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe. I am not sure about religions other than Christianity, but I don't think that there is anything in the Bible that would preclude life on other planets...But then I am not a theologian. As far as I am concerned, until one of those little green buggers takes me into their ship and hooks up the electrodes, I'm not going to believe they exist. Believing in the existance of aliens, IMHO, requires as much faith as believing in God. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks
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Nishant S wrote: And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. But for millions of people religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe. And while I am here I might as well just go ahead and mention god and Britney Spears... ;P
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: But for millions of people religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe not for me. my disbelief of religion comes from the same place that my disbelief in aliens does: lack of proof. -c
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Yes I do believe aliens exist. Bob is the living proof that they do. :cool: OK, now that the kidding part is done and over, my stand on this matter is that I am not going to decide whether or not aliens exist. Reasons being what Chris L. said above and that however much I speculate and reason on this, play with probability and numbers, it's going to be just that - speculations. And these speculations are not going to affect my life or way of life terribly one way or the other. Because I'm not a space scientist, nor a novelist, a sci-fi writer, or any such person who is directly affected by this. I'm just a programmer. Of course I could choose to become a game writer, but until then aliens are out of my dictionary*. No, I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm sitting on a comfortable chair in my own flat. It's the same thing with believing in god. Unless something happens which forces me to take a stand, I'm not going to waste my life thinking about it. But before you say it, yes, I agree that it's interesting to put forward your opinions and share ideas. This is why I am discussing it here with you and others. :) *Except Bob of course. Bob is da man.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
I believe that life is not as uncommon as we are led to think. Probably anytime the conditions are in a certain band it happens. Intelligent life however may be rare indeed. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
My opinion is that if there is no proof either way, you can't hold strong opinions either way - which is also why I'm an agnostic. My own gut feeling is that life probably does exist elsewhere*, though I'm doubtful that it has visited earth. I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything. I wonder if we're doing something wrong in looking for them - or maybe any sufficiently advanced civilization discovers another means of communication other than radio waves, which we haven't yet discovered. Whether or not there is intelligent life elsewhere, I think we will eventually find planets inhabited by animal life. Looking at the history of earth, the vast majority of life's history on earth was limited to animal life. 800 million years of multi-celled animal life versus ~100,000 years of human life. That's a ratio of 8000 to 1. (And most of that 100,000 years was spent in a primitive hunter-gather societies completely different from the civilizations of the last 5,000 years.) * it seems statistically unlikely that the lottery of life was only won once, or, if you believe in god, that god would limit himself to one planet in the universe. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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Nishant S wrote: Are you saying that out of a billion billion billion billion (and possibly more) star systems out there the chances of a start having a planet with life are so low as to make the thinking of it a mere dream? we don't even know how life here got started (we really don't). if we don't know that, how can we run the numbers for any other system? sure, there could be something we would recognize as life (or life we wouldn't recognize), somewhere. and i could win the lottery (as soon as North Carolina allows one). but treating either possibility as anything more than a dream is a waste of my time and energy. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: we don't even know how life here got started There are several valid theories , all of which are plausable. If not for religious interference we would probably have already created life in the lab from inert materials. It is just in the past 10 years or so that we started finding planets around other stars. It was much ballyhooed by the skeptics that planet formation was a rare occurance. Now we are finding thme on a weekly basis and as our technique is refined and our machinery gets better we will soon be able to find earth sized planets , at least in our local area ( 100 Light Years or so ). Anything not proscribed by nature will happen. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. I agree with you 100% on this one Nish. John
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe. I am not sure about religions other than Christianity, but I don't think that there is anything in the Bible that would preclude life on other planets...But then I am not a theologian. As far as I am concerned, until one of those little green buggers takes me into their ship and hooks up the electrodes, I'm not going to believe they exist. Believing in the existance of aliens, IMHO, requires as much faith as believing in God. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks
Gary Kirkham wrote: Believing in the existance of aliens, IMHO, requires as much faith as believing in God. Not even close to the truth. You cannot produce God so it takes a bit of faith to believe in his existance but life is all around you - it is not ambigious in nature. Richard PS: We are probably gonna find some type of life, either still viable or extinct, on Mars. In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Nishant S wrote: There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. I agree with you 100% on this one Nish. John
John M. Drescher wrote: I agree with you 100% on this one Nish. :jig: Thanks John :-) Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: But for millions of people religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe not for me. my disbelief of religion comes from the same place that my disbelief in aliens does: lack of proof. -c
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Prove that God does not exist. Prove that alien life does not exist. I believe because it has not been proven false. And don't give me that crappola about proving a negative . God is a bit ambigious but I can prove that life can exist ergo it may exist elsewhere. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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My opinion is that if there is no proof either way, you can't hold strong opinions either way - which is also why I'm an agnostic. My own gut feeling is that life probably does exist elsewhere*, though I'm doubtful that it has visited earth. I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything. I wonder if we're doing something wrong in looking for them - or maybe any sufficiently advanced civilization discovers another means of communication other than radio waves, which we haven't yet discovered. Whether or not there is intelligent life elsewhere, I think we will eventually find planets inhabited by animal life. Looking at the history of earth, the vast majority of life's history on earth was limited to animal life. 800 million years of multi-celled animal life versus ~100,000 years of human life. That's a ratio of 8000 to 1. (And most of that 100,000 years was spent in a primitive hunter-gather societies completely different from the civilizations of the last 5,000 years.) * it seems statistically unlikely that the lottery of life was only won once, or, if you believe in god, that god would limit himself to one planet in the universe. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
Very interesting and content-filled post. Like all agnostics you know how to put your points across impressively :-) Like all atheists I over-talked I guess. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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My opinion is that if there is no proof either way, you can't hold strong opinions either way - which is also why I'm an agnostic. My own gut feeling is that life probably does exist elsewhere*, though I'm doubtful that it has visited earth. I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything. I wonder if we're doing something wrong in looking for them - or maybe any sufficiently advanced civilization discovers another means of communication other than radio waves, which we haven't yet discovered. Whether or not there is intelligent life elsewhere, I think we will eventually find planets inhabited by animal life. Looking at the history of earth, the vast majority of life's history on earth was limited to animal life. 800 million years of multi-celled animal life versus ~100,000 years of human life. That's a ratio of 8000 to 1. (And most of that 100,000 years was spent in a primitive hunter-gather societies completely different from the civilizations of the last 5,000 years.) * it seems statistically unlikely that the lottery of life was only won once, or, if you believe in god, that god would limit himself to one planet in the universe. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
Brit wrote: I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Even then you are still talking about intelligent life based on a carbon system like we are. Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Yes I do believe aliens exist. Bob is the living proof that they do. :cool: OK, now that the kidding part is done and over, my stand on this matter is that I am not going to decide whether or not aliens exist. Reasons being what Chris L. said above and that however much I speculate and reason on this, play with probability and numbers, it's going to be just that - speculations. And these speculations are not going to affect my life or way of life terribly one way or the other. Because I'm not a space scientist, nor a novelist, a sci-fi writer, or any such person who is directly affected by this. I'm just a programmer. Of course I could choose to become a game writer, but until then aliens are out of my dictionary*. No, I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm sitting on a comfortable chair in my own flat. It's the same thing with believing in god. Unless something happens which forces me to take a stand, I'm not going to waste my life thinking about it. But before you say it, yes, I agree that it's interesting to put forward your opinions and share ideas. This is why I am discussing it here with you and others. :) *Except Bob of course. Bob is da man.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: I agree that it's interesting to put forward your opinions and share ideas Exactemo! Or Exactement. One of them. Mike will know better. One is the spelling,m the other is the pronounciation. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Brit wrote: I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Even then you are still talking about intelligent life based on a carbon system like we are. Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Well, when we look at the sky, we are seeing a slice through space-time. Now, given the age of the universe (~13 billion years), I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest that intelligent life could've evolved elsewhere 10 million years ago. If they happened to be 10 million light years away, we'd be receiving those radio signals right now. It wouldn't be signals directed at us, rather, we'd be picking up signals which happened to escape into space. (To flip the argument around, earth is broadcasting its radio signals into space right now - perhaps millions of years from now, maybe the human race will be extinct, but alien races of the future will see our radio signals.) What I'm saying is that we should be able to pickup ancient radio signals which leaked into space from an alien race without their intentionally sending it to us. While this is a little tangental to the subject, given the vast periods of time involved in the formation of the universe and the formation of solar systems and evolution of life, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that civilizations might've existed 100 million or possibly even 1 billion years before the present. Even if a civilization has a 10,000 year head-start, it's likely that the alien species would have technologies that are unbelievable and their civilization would be hard to imagine. Yet, that is exactly the type of alien species we are likely to encounter - i.e. one that is at least 10,000 years ahead or behind our own. (The Star Trek idea of multiple races of roughly equivalent technology is next to impossible on a statistical basis; although I did hear that they explained it by saying that the multiple races were actually one race which was seeded on multiple planets by an "elder race".) Richard Stringer wrote: Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. I was using the word "radio waves" in the broadest sense of the word - i.e. electromagetic radiation. X-Rays, Gamma rays, visible light, and radio waves are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum. I was thinking of somethin
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Gary Kirkham wrote: Believing in the existance of aliens, IMHO, requires as much faith as believing in God. Not even close to the truth. You cannot produce God so it takes a bit of faith to believe in his existance but life is all around you - it is not ambigious in nature. Richard PS: We are probably gonna find some type of life, either still viable or extinct, on Mars. In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: but life is all around you Yup. In every breath we take there must be 100s of 1000s of living germs and stuff. Even that is "life" Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Richard Stringer wrote: Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Well, when we look at the sky, we are seeing a slice through space-time. Now, given the age of the universe (~13 billion years), I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest that intelligent life could've evolved elsewhere 10 million years ago. If they happened to be 10 million light years away, we'd be receiving those radio signals right now. It wouldn't be signals directed at us, rather, we'd be picking up signals which happened to escape into space. (To flip the argument around, earth is broadcasting its radio signals into space right now - perhaps millions of years from now, maybe the human race will be extinct, but alien races of the future will see our radio signals.) What I'm saying is that we should be able to pickup ancient radio signals which leaked into space from an alien race without their intentionally sending it to us. While this is a little tangental to the subject, given the vast periods of time involved in the formation of the universe and the formation of solar systems and evolution of life, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that civilizations might've existed 100 million or possibly even 1 billion years before the present. Even if a civilization has a 10,000 year head-start, it's likely that the alien species would have technologies that are unbelievable and their civilization would be hard to imagine. Yet, that is exactly the type of alien species we are likely to encounter - i.e. one that is at least 10,000 years ahead or behind our own. (The Star Trek idea of multiple races of roughly equivalent technology is next to impossible on a statistical basis; although I did hear that they explained it by saying that the multiple races were actually one race which was seeded on multiple planets by an "elder race".) Richard Stringer wrote: Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. I was using the word "radio waves" in the broadest sense of the word - i.e. electromagetic radiation. X-Rays, Gamma rays, visible light, and radio waves are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum. I was thinking of somethin
Brit wrote: The Star Trek idea of multiple races of roughly equivalent technology is next to impossible on a statistical basis; Not really. It becomes impossible only if you consider that all civilizations end after a while. If they never end but just keep improving technologically, socially and culturally; it means that as time increases in the forward direction, then the chances of two intelligent races meeting each other keeps increasing substantially. If humans survive for the next 100 million years I am pretty sure we'd encounter a minimum of 3 intelligent races elsewhere. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Sure, Michael Jackson is living proof.:-D Seriously, there has to be another planet in the universe that has life, intelligent or not. Brad Jennings "You're mom is nice. Mind if I go out with her?" - Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Sure, Michael Jackson is living proof.:-D Seriously, there has to be another planet in the universe that has life, intelligent or not. Brad Jennings "You're mom is nice. Mind if I go out with her?" - Jörgen Sigvardsson
Brad Jennings wrote: Seriously, there has to be another planet in the universe that has life, intelligent or not. Not just one. There are probably "many" Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]