How many of you believe in alien life?
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Yes I do believe aliens exist. Bob is the living proof that they do. :cool: OK, now that the kidding part is done and over, my stand on this matter is that I am not going to decide whether or not aliens exist. Reasons being what Chris L. said above and that however much I speculate and reason on this, play with probability and numbers, it's going to be just that - speculations. And these speculations are not going to affect my life or way of life terribly one way or the other. Because I'm not a space scientist, nor a novelist, a sci-fi writer, or any such person who is directly affected by this. I'm just a programmer. Of course I could choose to become a game writer, but until then aliens are out of my dictionary*. No, I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm sitting on a comfortable chair in my own flat. It's the same thing with believing in god. Unless something happens which forces me to take a stand, I'm not going to waste my life thinking about it. But before you say it, yes, I agree that it's interesting to put forward your opinions and share ideas. This is why I am discussing it here with you and others. :) *Except Bob of course. Bob is da man.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
I believe that life is not as uncommon as we are led to think. Probably anytime the conditions are in a certain band it happens. Intelligent life however may be rare indeed. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
My opinion is that if there is no proof either way, you can't hold strong opinions either way - which is also why I'm an agnostic. My own gut feeling is that life probably does exist elsewhere*, though I'm doubtful that it has visited earth. I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything. I wonder if we're doing something wrong in looking for them - or maybe any sufficiently advanced civilization discovers another means of communication other than radio waves, which we haven't yet discovered. Whether or not there is intelligent life elsewhere, I think we will eventually find planets inhabited by animal life. Looking at the history of earth, the vast majority of life's history on earth was limited to animal life. 800 million years of multi-celled animal life versus ~100,000 years of human life. That's a ratio of 8000 to 1. (And most of that 100,000 years was spent in a primitive hunter-gather societies completely different from the civilizations of the last 5,000 years.) * it seems statistically unlikely that the lottery of life was only won once, or, if you believe in god, that god would limit himself to one planet in the universe. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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Nishant S wrote: Are you saying that out of a billion billion billion billion (and possibly more) star systems out there the chances of a start having a planet with life are so low as to make the thinking of it a mere dream? we don't even know how life here got started (we really don't). if we don't know that, how can we run the numbers for any other system? sure, there could be something we would recognize as life (or life we wouldn't recognize), somewhere. and i could win the lottery (as soon as North Carolina allows one). but treating either possibility as anything more than a dream is a waste of my time and energy. -c
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Chris Losinger wrote: we don't even know how life here got started There are several valid theories , all of which are plausable. If not for religious interference we would probably have already created life in the lab from inert materials. It is just in the past 10 years or so that we started finding planets around other stars. It was much ballyhooed by the skeptics that planet formation was a rare occurance. Now we are finding thme on a weekly basis and as our technique is refined and our machinery gets better we will soon be able to find earth sized planets , at least in our local area ( 100 Light Years or so ). Anything not proscribed by nature will happen. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. I agree with you 100% on this one Nish. John
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe. I am not sure about religions other than Christianity, but I don't think that there is anything in the Bible that would preclude life on other planets...But then I am not a theologian. As far as I am concerned, until one of those little green buggers takes me into their ship and hooks up the electrodes, I'm not going to believe they exist. Believing in the existance of aliens, IMHO, requires as much faith as believing in God. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks
Gary Kirkham wrote: Believing in the existance of aliens, IMHO, requires as much faith as believing in God. Not even close to the truth. You cannot produce God so it takes a bit of faith to believe in his existance but life is all around you - it is not ambigious in nature. Richard PS: We are probably gonna find some type of life, either still viable or extinct, on Mars. In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Nishant S wrote: There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. I agree with you 100% on this one Nish. John
John M. Drescher wrote: I agree with you 100% on this one Nish. :jig: Thanks John :-) Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: But for millions of people religion is the primary reason they cannot accept the fact that the chances are that there are many alien life forms in the universe not for me. my disbelief of religion comes from the same place that my disbelief in aliens does: lack of proof. -c
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Prove that God does not exist. Prove that alien life does not exist. I believe because it has not been proven false. And don't give me that crappola about proving a negative . God is a bit ambigious but I can prove that life can exist ergo it may exist elsewhere. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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My opinion is that if there is no proof either way, you can't hold strong opinions either way - which is also why I'm an agnostic. My own gut feeling is that life probably does exist elsewhere*, though I'm doubtful that it has visited earth. I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything. I wonder if we're doing something wrong in looking for them - or maybe any sufficiently advanced civilization discovers another means of communication other than radio waves, which we haven't yet discovered. Whether or not there is intelligent life elsewhere, I think we will eventually find planets inhabited by animal life. Looking at the history of earth, the vast majority of life's history on earth was limited to animal life. 800 million years of multi-celled animal life versus ~100,000 years of human life. That's a ratio of 8000 to 1. (And most of that 100,000 years was spent in a primitive hunter-gather societies completely different from the civilizations of the last 5,000 years.) * it seems statistically unlikely that the lottery of life was only won once, or, if you believe in god, that god would limit himself to one planet in the universe. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
Very interesting and content-filled post. Like all agnostics you know how to put your points across impressively :-) Like all atheists I over-talked I guess. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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My opinion is that if there is no proof either way, you can't hold strong opinions either way - which is also why I'm an agnostic. My own gut feeling is that life probably does exist elsewhere*, though I'm doubtful that it has visited earth. I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything. I wonder if we're doing something wrong in looking for them - or maybe any sufficiently advanced civilization discovers another means of communication other than radio waves, which we haven't yet discovered. Whether or not there is intelligent life elsewhere, I think we will eventually find planets inhabited by animal life. Looking at the history of earth, the vast majority of life's history on earth was limited to animal life. 800 million years of multi-celled animal life versus ~100,000 years of human life. That's a ratio of 8000 to 1. (And most of that 100,000 years was spent in a primitive hunter-gather societies completely different from the civilizations of the last 5,000 years.) * it seems statistically unlikely that the lottery of life was only won once, or, if you believe in god, that god would limit himself to one planet in the universe. ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
Brit wrote: I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Even then you are still talking about intelligent life based on a carbon system like we are. Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Yes I do believe aliens exist. Bob is the living proof that they do. :cool: OK, now that the kidding part is done and over, my stand on this matter is that I am not going to decide whether or not aliens exist. Reasons being what Chris L. said above and that however much I speculate and reason on this, play with probability and numbers, it's going to be just that - speculations. And these speculations are not going to affect my life or way of life terribly one way or the other. Because I'm not a space scientist, nor a novelist, a sci-fi writer, or any such person who is directly affected by this. I'm just a programmer. Of course I could choose to become a game writer, but until then aliens are out of my dictionary*. No, I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm sitting on a comfortable chair in my own flat. It's the same thing with believing in god. Unless something happens which forces me to take a stand, I'm not going to waste my life thinking about it. But before you say it, yes, I agree that it's interesting to put forward your opinions and share ideas. This is why I am discussing it here with you and others. :) *Except Bob of course. Bob is da man.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
Rohit Sinha wrote: I agree that it's interesting to put forward your opinions and share ideas Exactemo! Or Exactement. One of them. Mike will know better. One is the spelling,m the other is the pronounciation. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Brit wrote: I'm a little surprised that looking for radio signals from other planets hasn't turned up anything Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Even then you are still talking about intelligent life based on a carbon system like we are. Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Well, when we look at the sky, we are seeing a slice through space-time. Now, given the age of the universe (~13 billion years), I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest that intelligent life could've evolved elsewhere 10 million years ago. If they happened to be 10 million light years away, we'd be receiving those radio signals right now. It wouldn't be signals directed at us, rather, we'd be picking up signals which happened to escape into space. (To flip the argument around, earth is broadcasting its radio signals into space right now - perhaps millions of years from now, maybe the human race will be extinct, but alien races of the future will see our radio signals.) What I'm saying is that we should be able to pickup ancient radio signals which leaked into space from an alien race without their intentionally sending it to us. While this is a little tangental to the subject, given the vast periods of time involved in the formation of the universe and the formation of solar systems and evolution of life, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that civilizations might've existed 100 million or possibly even 1 billion years before the present. Even if a civilization has a 10,000 year head-start, it's likely that the alien species would have technologies that are unbelievable and their civilization would be hard to imagine. Yet, that is exactly the type of alien species we are likely to encounter - i.e. one that is at least 10,000 years ahead or behind our own. (The Star Trek idea of multiple races of roughly equivalent technology is next to impossible on a statistical basis; although I did hear that they explained it by saying that the multiple races were actually one race which was seeded on multiple planets by an "elder race".) Richard Stringer wrote: Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. I was using the word "radio waves" in the broadest sense of the word - i.e. electromagetic radiation. X-Rays, Gamma rays, visible light, and radio waves are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum. I was thinking of somethin
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Gary Kirkham wrote: Believing in the existance of aliens, IMHO, requires as much faith as believing in God. Not even close to the truth. You cannot produce God so it takes a bit of faith to believe in his existance but life is all around you - it is not ambigious in nature. Richard PS: We are probably gonna find some type of life, either still viable or extinct, on Mars. In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: but life is all around you Yup. In every breath we take there must be 100s of 1000s of living germs and stuff. Even that is "life" Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Richard Stringer wrote: Why ? Lets suppose that a listener was somewhere out there listening for us. Lets say he was on a star system 500 Light Years out ( fairly close in galatic terms ). If he hears the very first signals emitted from the earth it will still be another 400 years or so before he picks it up. And 900 years or so before we get a reply. Well, when we look at the sky, we are seeing a slice through space-time. Now, given the age of the universe (~13 billion years), I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest that intelligent life could've evolved elsewhere 10 million years ago. If they happened to be 10 million light years away, we'd be receiving those radio signals right now. It wouldn't be signals directed at us, rather, we'd be picking up signals which happened to escape into space. (To flip the argument around, earth is broadcasting its radio signals into space right now - perhaps millions of years from now, maybe the human race will be extinct, but alien races of the future will see our radio signals.) What I'm saying is that we should be able to pickup ancient radio signals which leaked into space from an alien race without their intentionally sending it to us. While this is a little tangental to the subject, given the vast periods of time involved in the formation of the universe and the formation of solar systems and evolution of life, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that civilizations might've existed 100 million or possibly even 1 billion years before the present. Even if a civilization has a 10,000 year head-start, it's likely that the alien species would have technologies that are unbelievable and their civilization would be hard to imagine. Yet, that is exactly the type of alien species we are likely to encounter - i.e. one that is at least 10,000 years ahead or behind our own. (The Star Trek idea of multiple races of roughly equivalent technology is next to impossible on a statistical basis; although I did hear that they explained it by saying that the multiple races were actually one race which was seeded on multiple planets by an "elder race".) Richard Stringer wrote: Three may be other paradigms that use different methods of communication - gamma rays x rays hell who knows. I was using the word "radio waves" in the broadest sense of the word - i.e. electromagetic radiation. X-Rays, Gamma rays, visible light, and radio waves are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum. I was thinking of somethin
Brit wrote: The Star Trek idea of multiple races of roughly equivalent technology is next to impossible on a statistical basis; Not really. It becomes impossible only if you consider that all civilizations end after a while. If they never end but just keep improving technologically, socially and culturally; it means that as time increases in the forward direction, then the chances of two intelligent races meeting each other keeps increasing substantially. If humans survive for the next 100 million years I am pretty sure we'd encounter a minimum of 3 intelligent races elsewhere. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Sure, Michael Jackson is living proof.:-D Seriously, there has to be another planet in the universe that has life, intelligent or not. Brad Jennings "You're mom is nice. Mind if I go out with her?" - Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Sure, Michael Jackson is living proof.:-D Seriously, there has to be another planet in the universe that has life, intelligent or not. Brad Jennings "You're mom is nice. Mind if I go out with her?" - Jörgen Sigvardsson
Brad Jennings wrote: Seriously, there has to be another planet in the universe that has life, intelligent or not. Not just one. There are probably "many" Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Brit wrote: The Star Trek idea of multiple races of roughly equivalent technology is next to impossible on a statistical basis; Not really. It becomes impossible only if you consider that all civilizations end after a while. If they never end but just keep improving technologically, socially and culturally; it means that as time increases in the forward direction, then the chances of two intelligent races meeting each other keeps increasing substantially. If humans survive for the next 100 million years I am pretty sure we'd encounter a minimum of 3 intelligent races elsewhere. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
The key in my statement was "roughly equivalent technology". What I was saying is this: The universe needs to form stars and solar systems and there needs to be a buildup of some crucial heavy atoms before life can form. This takes some time. Right now, the universe is about 13 billion years old. I'll assume for a moment that conditions were right for intelligent life to form after about 12 billion years. Now, if we encounter an alien life form, we have to ask: how long ago did they reach a level of civilization equivalent to present-day earth? The answer would be anywhere from (a) their civilization is currently at the same level as earth's, and (b) their civilization reached earth-like civilization 1 billion years ago. It could be anywhere in between. Now, imagine a random number generator picking a number between 0 and 1 billion. Is it likely to be close to 0? No. The numbers are likely to be something like: 834 million, 45 million, 460 million. Those numbers represent the the number of years the alien civilization had to progress beyond our own. To say that we discover an alien race which has similar technology and civilization would mean the number would have to be somewhere around 500 or less (i.e. 500 years ahead of us or less). Statistically unlikely. Further, the "elder" race would seem almost magical and would have virtually limitless power compared to our own. One of the premises of Star Trek is that races are roughly equivalent in power. In other words, they'd be within a couple hundred years of each other in terms of technological advancement. (Note: once races encounter each other and technology transfer occurs, the technology difference between the races would narrow significantly.) ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
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The key in my statement was "roughly equivalent technology". What I was saying is this: The universe needs to form stars and solar systems and there needs to be a buildup of some crucial heavy atoms before life can form. This takes some time. Right now, the universe is about 13 billion years old. I'll assume for a moment that conditions were right for intelligent life to form after about 12 billion years. Now, if we encounter an alien life form, we have to ask: how long ago did they reach a level of civilization equivalent to present-day earth? The answer would be anywhere from (a) their civilization is currently at the same level as earth's, and (b) their civilization reached earth-like civilization 1 billion years ago. It could be anywhere in between. Now, imagine a random number generator picking a number between 0 and 1 billion. Is it likely to be close to 0? No. The numbers are likely to be something like: 834 million, 45 million, 460 million. Those numbers represent the the number of years the alien civilization had to progress beyond our own. To say that we discover an alien race which has similar technology and civilization would mean the number would have to be somewhere around 500 or less (i.e. 500 years ahead of us or less). Statistically unlikely. Further, the "elder" race would seem almost magical and would have virtually limitless power compared to our own. One of the premises of Star Trek is that races are roughly equivalent in power. In other words, they'd be within a couple hundred years of each other in terms of technological advancement. (Note: once races encounter each other and technology transfer occurs, the technology difference between the races would narrow significantly.) ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion
Brit wrote: To say that we discover an alien race which has similar technology and civilization would mean the number would have to be somewhere around 500 or less (i.e. 500 years ahead of us or less). Statistically unlikely. Ah, okay. I got you now. Brit wrote: (Note: once races encounter each other and technology transfer occurs, the technology difference between the races would narrow significantly.) Assuming the other race is developed enough to assimilate that technology. The basic issue here is how we define intelligence. Will a race that has been intelligent for a million years consider us intelligent? Are we evolved enough to be considered intelligent by species that have had millions of years head start on us? I doubt so. The saddest part is that we have drastically reduced all hope of further evolution now. Perhaps we should not have developed civilization and culture so early in our evolution history. Maybe if we had delayed it by a million years or so humans (or whatever we are then) would probably have had intelligence levels that would be able to achieve things which we cannot even conceive properly now. Tha scariest scenario is one where an intelligent race comes somewhere near the solar system, observes us and then leaves thinking we are just some kind of developed apes. That'd be the saddest cruelest thing that could happen to mankind :( Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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There are billions and billions of stars stars in our galaxy and there are billions of galaxies like ours out there. Only a baby would say (if it knew how to speak of course) that earth is the only planet with life. Yet I find that there are unbelievers everywhere. Just wanted to know how of you believe there are alien life forms out there. The others (if they decide to participate in this thread) please give valid reasonable points. And kindly dont mention religion, god and brit spears. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: brit spears. I didn't realize that the Brits still use spears. Didn't we give them their guns back after we kicked them out of the colonies? Anyone who doesn't believe in aliens should join me for a tour of the bars around here about closing time. Alien intelligence may not exist, but the lifeforms are certainly real. The odd thing is that, come closing time, they're not nearly as unattractive as science fiction writers have made them out to be... some of them are kinda cute after a few dozen beers. Seriously, though, it's hard to imagine that all that real estate out there serves no other purpose than to decorate our nighttime sky. If there is a God directing the Universe, it would seem to be a waste of Her talent to focus entirely on one insignificant corner of it. If not, it is naive to assume that the fortuitous accident that led to the evolution of intelligent life here would happen only here and nowhere else in the cosmos. In either case, it makes no sense to base any conclusion on the fact that we've detected no sign of other intelligent species thus far. We've only had the capacity to contact others for a few decades, a mere blink of an eye in the history of the Universe. Indeed, it would be more surprising if we had proof so early in our development! I, for one, feel certain that others exist, or will in time evolve, elsewhere in our reality. Whether they have actually visited us is very questionable, but as to their existence, I have little doubt. "Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Brit wrote: To say that we discover an alien race which has similar technology and civilization would mean the number would have to be somewhere around 500 or less (i.e. 500 years ahead of us or less). Statistically unlikely. Ah, okay. I got you now. Brit wrote: (Note: once races encounter each other and technology transfer occurs, the technology difference between the races would narrow significantly.) Assuming the other race is developed enough to assimilate that technology. The basic issue here is how we define intelligence. Will a race that has been intelligent for a million years consider us intelligent? Are we evolved enough to be considered intelligent by species that have had millions of years head start on us? I doubt so. The saddest part is that we have drastically reduced all hope of further evolution now. Perhaps we should not have developed civilization and culture so early in our evolution history. Maybe if we had delayed it by a million years or so humans (or whatever we are then) would probably have had intelligence levels that would be able to achieve things which we cannot even conceive properly now. Tha scariest scenario is one where an intelligent race comes somewhere near the solar system, observes us and then leaves thinking we are just some kind of developed apes. That'd be the saddest cruelest thing that could happen to mankind :( Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: The saddest part is that we have drastically reduced all hope of further evolution now. Perhaps we should not have developed civilization and culture so early in our evolution history. Maybe if we had delayed it by a million years or so humans (or whatever we are then) would probably have had intelligence levels that would be able to achieve things which we cannot even conceive properly now. Essentially what you are saying is that we should've become more intelligent before creating civilization. The flip-side is that it means that our species would spend tens or hundreds of thousands of years passing through it's current intelligence without creating civilization. It seems difficult to figure out how that could occur. Another thought about alien species: I heard somewhere that preditors are almost always smarter than their prey - i.e. perhaps being a preditor creates evolutionary pressure towards a larger, smarter brain. That's a little scary when you think about the fact that aliens are likely to evolve from preditory creatures. I wonder how true it is, though. ( Thinking out loud: Apes are omnivores. They're not really preditors in the way that cats are. Apes are probably smart because of the heavy social interaction (which is true of all the primates from humans to chimps to gorillas, but not so true of orangutans). The great cats are intelligent, social, and preditory. Dolphins are intelligent, social, and prey on fish. Dogs are smart, social, and preditors. (Wild) Pigs are smart, social, though not preditors (they eat berries, grass, small animals, etc). Elephants are social, but not preditory. And, reptiles are generally not smart nor are they very social, although they are commonly preditors. I wonder if "social" is the primary factor in developing intelligence. Certainly, navigating the social landscape requires some degree of intelligence. ) ------------------------------------------ "What happened in that Rhode Island club is shocking. To think that over a hundred people would attend a Great White concert." - The Onion