Why any less wild?
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Rohit Sinha wrote: Actually, it's not. However many people will disagree with you, which is why I am asking. :) Rohit Sinha wrote: If you don't ask, how will you learn? By running into that yonder wall repeatedly. :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: By running into that yonder wall repeatedly. Now I'm concerned! :omg:
Regards,Rohit Sinha
...celebrating Indian spirit and Cricket. 8MB video, really cool!
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Paul Watson wrote: Touche! Damn that left a mark Jonny, ouch. :jig: Well we know Dave W adores you. Paul Watson wrote: got it on a box about 6 feet from me actually. Mine is on the shelf that is hanging precariously above my head about 1 metre away. SuSE Personal 7.3. I tried Red Hat 6.something a while ago and found it boring. SuSE was a bit more XPesque with the new KDE it had. But in the end, Doing anything out of scope with the original 'out of the box' config proved difficult. Kernel modding and driver stuff. My idea of fun is not spending £100 on a new piece of kit, then spending the next three weeks writing a bloody driver for it. I may take more of an intrest when Mono comes out fully (thats the Linux .NET framework for those who don't know)
"If you just say porn then you get all manner of chaff and low grade stuff."
- Paul Watson, Lounge 25 Mar 03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- C. Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]
Jonny Newman wrote: Well we know Dave W adores you. And if that is the only person I can claim to be my friend then I am a rich man indeed :) Jonny Newman wrote: My idea of fun is not spending £100 on a new piece of kit, then spending the next three weeks writing a bloody driver for it Never had to write/hunt for a driver in all my years of using Windows. Actually, I lie. I tried to get a webcam which had "Windows 98 Only" written on it to work on Windows 2000. But that was me asking for it.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Neil Gaiman's fantasy novel, American Gods[^], suggests Gods exist based on human worship. Meaning the more people worship a God the stronger he becomes. It's like they exist because we need them to exist. We have a need to explain things, and when observation or science fails, we create a God to explain the unexplainable in the world. It's as probable as anything to me. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
Excellent story, just finished it saturday night. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Paul Watson wrote: as fanciful as Santa Claus. That's it, Paul!! You talk about the unproven existance of God and aliens, but deny Santa's presence, and I've got to say something. :mad: I get presents each and every Christmas with the name Santa on at least one of them. That's all the proof I need. Although his penmanship is suspiciously like my mother's. :suss: :confused: Paul Watson wrote: Why is the idea of aliens or supernatural phenomenon any wilder than the idea of God? What if .. oh, nevermind.;P BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: You talk about the unproven existance of God and aliens, but deny Santa's presence, and I've got to say something. I get presents each and every Christmas with the name Santa on at least one of them. That's all the proof I need. Point taken. I knew I should have used something made up instead of Santa Claus. :) brianwelsch wrote: Although his penmanship is suspiciously like my mother's Which could be proof not that Santa Claus is a fake, but that Santa Claus is your mother. :omg: brianwelsch wrote: What if .. oh, nevermind Way too subtle for me. What must I nevermind? :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Paul Watson wrote: less intelectual book i wouldn't go that far. ;) Haven't read Pratchett, but my feeling is they are birds of a feather. One more fantastic the other more humourous. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: the other more humourous. And in jest oft lies much truth. :) * I was pre-fending off the You Read Childrens Books lot who always flock around us Terry Pratchett fans. I am sick of having to add disclaimers when I mention him. :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Jonny Newman wrote: Well we know Dave W adores you. And if that is the only person I can claim to be my friend then I am a rich man indeed :) Jonny Newman wrote: My idea of fun is not spending £100 on a new piece of kit, then spending the next three weeks writing a bloody driver for it Never had to write/hunt for a driver in all my years of using Windows. Actually, I lie. I tried to get a webcam which had "Windows 98 Only" written on it to work on Windows 2000. But that was me asking for it.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: And if that is the only person I can claim to be my friend then I am a rich man indeed *sniff* Thats so sweet. He'd be flattered Paul Watson wrote: Never had to write/hunt for a driver in all my years of using Windows. Me neither :-) God ET bless the commerial software world :-D Paul Watson wrote: Actually, I lie. I tried to get a webcam which had "Windows 98 Only" written on it to work on Windows 2000. But that was me asking for it. To this day, I have NEVER managed to get my SB Live! Sound Card to work 100%. When installed on 2000 or XP with the old drivers. The remote control thingy worked, but none of the software would work. When I updataed the driver and software, the card works, bu the remote control doesn't. These are all Win2K compatible drivers. It really annoys me.
"If you just say porn then you get all manner of chaff and low grade stuff."
- Paul Watson, Lounge 25 Mar 03
"But a fresh install - it's like having clean sheets"
- C. Maunder Lounge 3 Mar '03
Jonathan 'nonny' Newman Homepage [www.nonny.com] [^]
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Richard Stringer wrote: Therefore for the one thing that the existance is known ( life ) as compared to the two that the existance cannot or has not been proven I suggest that the odds are greater and the level of acceptance is higher Well exactly. So why is a Christian in charge of the most powerful country on Earth, yet a man who claims aliens exist is derided for being a nut? Richard Stringer wrote: This may lead one to conclude that there cannot be any life elsewhere because it is not mentioned in the Bible or the Koran or whatever religious text you hold near and dear. I think their counter would be; God has a plan. The Bible does not exclude alien existance, it does not speak of it. God tells us what we need to know, and in his judgement we do not need to know about life forms elsewhere. Something like that. Most organised religions are very clever in being able to counter things like that with the simple "God has a plan" statement.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: Well exactly. So why is a Christian in charge of the most powerful country on Earth, yet a man who claims aliens exist is derided for being a nut? Well I guess I can accept part of this question but am lost on the other. Where is it said that a man who believes in alien life is a nut ? Carl Sagan is not considered a nut nor was Issac Asimov or a plethora of others I could name. I think that the UFO buffs are the one tagged with the "nuts" sorbiquet. Paul Watson wrote: The Bible does not exclude alien existance, it does not speak of it Re read Genisis with attention on the order of creation. Paul Watson wrote: and in his judgement we do not need to know about life forms elsewhere SO if and when we find them its now time. How convienient. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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Chris Losinger wrote: nearly everyone has a religion of some kind Yup. I used to have a friend that said, "If I had to choose a God, I'd choose the sun as the giver of life." Well, at least many wouldn't deny his God's existence. :) Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I used to have a friend that said, "If I had to choose a God, I'd choose the sun as the giver of life." Well, at least many wouldn't deny his God's existence. Yet we chuckle and think "How quaint" at the many past beliefs which placed the Sun as their central god. I guess I just get frustrated when we, myself included, laugh at one belief and then go right on with another equally wild one.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: I used to have a friend that said, "If I had to choose a God, I'd choose the sun as the giver of life." Well, at least many wouldn't deny his God's existence. Yet we chuckle and think "How quaint" at the many past beliefs which placed the Sun as their central god. I guess I just get frustrated when we, myself included, laugh at one belief and then go right on with another equally wild one.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: I guess I just get frustrated when we, myself included, laugh at one belief and then go right on with another equally wild one. Here here. Jeremy Falcon
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brianwelsch wrote: You talk about the unproven existance of God and aliens, but deny Santa's presence, and I've got to say something. I get presents each and every Christmas with the name Santa on at least one of them. That's all the proof I need. Point taken. I knew I should have used something made up instead of Santa Claus. :) brianwelsch wrote: Although his penmanship is suspiciously like my mother's Which could be proof not that Santa Claus is a fake, but that Santa Claus is your mother. :omg: brianwelsch wrote: What if .. oh, nevermind Way too subtle for me. What must I nevermind? :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: but that Santa Claus is your mother Sweet Junipers! D'ya think?? She is an awfully kind lady.. :-D Heeeyyy Wait-a-minute! You're not now suggesting my mother is a man, are you??!! ;P Paul Watson wrote: What must I nevermind? I really couldn't say where I was going with that one. I'm sure it could be forgotten with very little regret. :-O BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Paul Watson wrote: Well exactly. So why is a Christian in charge of the most powerful country on Earth, yet a man who claims aliens exist is derided for being a nut? Well I guess I can accept part of this question but am lost on the other. Where is it said that a man who believes in alien life is a nut ? Carl Sagan is not considered a nut nor was Issac Asimov or a plethora of others I could name. I think that the UFO buffs are the one tagged with the "nuts" sorbiquet. Paul Watson wrote: The Bible does not exclude alien existance, it does not speak of it Re read Genisis with attention on the order of creation. Paul Watson wrote: and in his judgement we do not need to know about life forms elsewhere SO if and when we find them its now time. How convienient. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: Where is it said that a man who believes in alien life is a nut ? Nut was too strong a word. Rather that many Christians/Muslims/etc. will actively state that they think Mr. Sagan, Honourable Asimov and Sir. Clarke are wrong, a bit dellusional. Certainly talking about other life is far less sociably acceptable than mentioning sunday service. Richard Stringer wrote: Re read Genisis with attention on the order of creation. Care to point me to the part that says "and only Earth was filled with life"? I am no Bible scholar in anyway but isn't it rather ambiquos as to the question of other planets and life? Actually, there are definitley other planets out there, nobody can deny that now. Yet they are not mentioned in Genesis. Richard Stringer wrote: How convienient. It is indeed! Wonderful huh? I think it is fantastic that whoever created these things had such foresight as to provide inbuilt counters to us heathen's questions and attacks. Makes me almost believe ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Richard Stringer wrote: This may lead one to conclude that there cannot be any life elsewhere because it is not mentioned in the Bible or the Koran or whatever religious text you hold near and dear. I guess that would make the enormous assumption that God choose to reveal the whole of life through the Bible, and not just bits that were relevant to us. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: I guess that would make the enormous assumption that God choose to reveal the whole of life through the Bible, and not just bits that were relevant to us. Assuming that God wrote the Bible and it is not a collection of various writings by plain old men. Perhaps a brief venture into the secular history of what we now call the Bible is called for - how it came to be - would be rewarding. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
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brianwelsch wrote: the other more humourous. And in jest oft lies much truth. :) * I was pre-fending off the You Read Childrens Books lot who always flock around us Terry Pratchett fans. I am sick of having to add disclaimers when I mention him. :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: pre-fending Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? ;) Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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I certainly was not trying to denounce other peoples beliefs or say that mine are the one and only. In fact "my way of thinking" does not exclude God, while "their" way of thinking does exclude aliens/mutilated-cattle/etc. Or at least that is how they have implemented it, even if the original class in no way says aliens do not exist. I am just curious as to how people can say "God exists!" but then turn around and say a far lesser concept does not. Shog9 wrote: Who you trust has a lot to do with what you believe... So when I say I don't believe that Fresh Cheese Curds are the Most Perfect Food then you can surmise that... ;) p.s. Your very cool sig is interfering with selecting text to quote :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
Paul Watson wrote: So when I say I don't believe that Fresh Cheese Curds are the Most Perfect Food then you can surmise that... You're smarter than you look & at least as smart as you sound... Paul Watson wrote: p.s. Your very cool sig is interfering with selecting text to quote Yes, my intolerance of whitespace at the end of my posts is not well liked by IE. Paul Watson wrote: I am just curious as to how people can say "God exists!" but then turn around and say a far lesser concept does not. I'd put it down to one or more of the following: 1) They're unwilling to accept the existance of things for which they have no absolute proof, but with a blindspot in the case of God. 2) They're too afraid to admit they don't know. 3) They've accepted some dogma stating as much. 4) They really *really* hated 'ET'. BTW - i personally don't know if there is intelligent life off of this earth. I also don't think i need to know, nor do i particularly care. But it makes for some very good (and very *very* bad) SciFi doesn't it? :)
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
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Paul Watson wrote: pre-fending Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? ;) Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? Yeah, bless his little cotton socks. :rolleyes: brianwelsch wrote: Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. God, so many... umm... Fifth Elephant was hilarious, Thief of Time also. I really cannot say which to read first except start at #1 and read through the series. There are references and un-saids in later books which are filled in by earlier books, so it helps starting at Discworlds birth. I just read them as they come out, fantastic stuff.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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I am just curious here so go sprinkle that holy water on your geraniums; Why is the idea of aliens or supernatural phenomenon any wilder than the idea of God? None can be currently proved. All three have thousands of years of stories, myths, legends and records. Yet somehow a God fearing Christian or eastward praying Muslim thinks aliens are a total crock, as fanciful as Santa Claus. Frankly the idea of an all powerful God is wilder to me than the thought of other intelligent life eeking out and existance as we are somewhere in the universe. No super powers, no omniscience, no warp drive, they don't even have to have pointy ears. Just curious :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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Paul Watson wrote: So when I say I don't believe that Fresh Cheese Curds are the Most Perfect Food then you can surmise that... You're smarter than you look & at least as smart as you sound... Paul Watson wrote: p.s. Your very cool sig is interfering with selecting text to quote Yes, my intolerance of whitespace at the end of my posts is not well liked by IE. Paul Watson wrote: I am just curious as to how people can say "God exists!" but then turn around and say a far lesser concept does not. I'd put it down to one or more of the following: 1) They're unwilling to accept the existance of things for which they have no absolute proof, but with a blindspot in the case of God. 2) They're too afraid to admit they don't know. 3) They've accepted some dogma stating as much. 4) They really *really* hated 'ET'. BTW - i personally don't know if there is intelligent life off of this earth. I also don't think i need to know, nor do i particularly care. But it makes for some very good (and very *very* bad) SciFi doesn't it? :)
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
Shog9 wrote: nor do i particularly care I care like I care about knowing that Hawking radiation could keep the quest for a unified theory on track... Just for knowings sake I guess. It is not like I care because I want to know how to defend myself from cattle mutilation or the proper etiquette for when I meet a Nyridian Prime being. It is just great to think about (and I am in the process of throwing my toys out of the cot at John Fisher's reply: "It doesn't really matter to me whether there is life on other planets, since I don't know if it's there, where it would be, or how to communicate with them if they exist." That just pisses me off. Arrrgghh!)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson
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brianwelsch wrote: I guess that would make the enormous assumption that God choose to reveal the whole of life through the Bible, and not just bits that were relevant to us. Assuming that God wrote the Bible and it is not a collection of various writings by plain old men. Perhaps a brief venture into the secular history of what we now call the Bible is called for - how it came to be - would be rewarding. Richard In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. Orson Welles
Richard Stringer wrote: history of what we now call the Bible It would be very interesting. I've wondered about it, but never took the time to try and research that aspect. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Paul Watson wrote: pre-fending Boy, GWB is rubbing off isn't he? ;) Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? I was thinking of Good Omens. BW "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
brianwelsch wrote: Any recommendations for reading Pratchett? Small Gods, Feet of Clay, Reaper Man Pick the first of those three you see.
S • H • O • G • N • I • N • E
I can't believe it... the way you look sometimes. And i don't want it... the things you're offering me.
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Jason Henderson wrote: I will conceed that there could be aliens if you will conceed that there could be a God? Abso-100%-lutely do I believe that there could be a God or gods. I don't believe there is one, but there could be. I recently changed my mind on that score, realising my hypocrisy. This is also part of why I posted my question. I see religious folk chuckling about us non-religious folks belief, and then walking into a brick building to pray to a God, something equal in wildness to what they had just been chuckling about. Funny how through realising my own hypocrisy I could nail down the hypocrisy in others I did not like. Before I was not sure. I think I just realised that it truly does boil down to faith, having it and not having it. I don't have it, so the glib "But He does exist" replies will never hold water with me. You have faith; To accept that He could not exist, just possibly, would be paradoxical to your faith. Hmmm. Jason Henderson wrote: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi Well there you go.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er Shog9: Paul "The human happy pill" Watson