Choosing a new language for web development.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
My highly opinionated response. Python is great for small things. Python sucks for large development because productivity is crippled by having to run code (either manually or by writing unit tests) to fix stupid syntax errors that a compiled language would tell you about right away (or even the IDE). Django, like Rails, is an opinionated framework. New releases break old code, at least major new releases, from what I've seen. We're stuck on Python 2.7 and an old version Django because everything will break if we upgrade and also because of the customization that was done to Django. And Django is written in Python, see first point. Ruby is an awful language actually. RoR is an interesting but opinionated framework, like Django, and I don't buy into their opinions. ASP.NET/WebPages/WebForms all just seems like overkill to web development, especially when integrated with Entity Framework, its potential tie in with IIS, and its interdependency with SQL Server. So, in my equally opinionated world, but at least they're my opinions: 1. I don't use ASP.NET/Web-whatever, or IIS. I use C# for server development and have a robust and efficient set of modular components that I wrote for serving the web pages, js, css, doing logging, emailing, configuration management, etc. 2. I have a boilerplate library of HTML/JS/CSS and backend C# endpoints that I use for site basics: registration, email, authentication, authorization, etc. 3. I'm not married to SQL Server because I don't tie in to frameworks that use SQL Server. But the only other contender that I like to work with is PostgreSQL, the rest I won't touch. 4. SPA is not a pain. I've used Backbone at work, it's easy to use if you color within the lines, I also use my own simple SPA js library, and there are some interesting (and small) SPA frameworks out there that I haven't looked at if you don't want to use Backbone. 5. I won't touch Angular. I never jumped on the Angular bandwagon, and when I read the A-v2 would not be compatible with A-v3, I was glad I didn't. 6. I've found that the real complexity of web development is actually the UI. The mess of HTML, CSS, and Javascript. While the pain of UI itself can't easily mitigated for the non-boilerplate stuff, sticking with some existing frameworks (I'm getting enough experience with Boostrap and jqWidgets to actually do meaningful things nowadays) has helped me a lot when it comes to learning the pain points of said frameworks. 7. I have a strict web development process now: a
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
I won't dive in too deep. but with ASP.NET you're definitely not tied to SQL Server. It'll work with a ton of different SQL and NoSQL providers. My preference is C#, ASP.NET and MVC. VS is getting a little out of hand, but VS Code will run on any major platform and .NET Core is platform independent. Lots and lots of work is being put into this and, give or take a few speed bumps while they sorted out v1.0, it all seems very, very solid.
cheers Chris Maunder
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
There's also Mono with Apache (mod_mono and XSP), which can run ASP.NET/MVC applications quite nicely, and doesn't have to be tied in to SQL Server (As Marc said, PostgreSQL is a very good database server, and has a LOT of plugins).
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism. Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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My highly opinionated response. Python is great for small things. Python sucks for large development because productivity is crippled by having to run code (either manually or by writing unit tests) to fix stupid syntax errors that a compiled language would tell you about right away (or even the IDE). Django, like Rails, is an opinionated framework. New releases break old code, at least major new releases, from what I've seen. We're stuck on Python 2.7 and an old version Django because everything will break if we upgrade and also because of the customization that was done to Django. And Django is written in Python, see first point. Ruby is an awful language actually. RoR is an interesting but opinionated framework, like Django, and I don't buy into their opinions. ASP.NET/WebPages/WebForms all just seems like overkill to web development, especially when integrated with Entity Framework, its potential tie in with IIS, and its interdependency with SQL Server. So, in my equally opinionated world, but at least they're my opinions: 1. I don't use ASP.NET/Web-whatever, or IIS. I use C# for server development and have a robust and efficient set of modular components that I wrote for serving the web pages, js, css, doing logging, emailing, configuration management, etc. 2. I have a boilerplate library of HTML/JS/CSS and backend C# endpoints that I use for site basics: registration, email, authentication, authorization, etc. 3. I'm not married to SQL Server because I don't tie in to frameworks that use SQL Server. But the only other contender that I like to work with is PostgreSQL, the rest I won't touch. 4. SPA is not a pain. I've used Backbone at work, it's easy to use if you color within the lines, I also use my own simple SPA js library, and there are some interesting (and small) SPA frameworks out there that I haven't looked at if you don't want to use Backbone. 5. I won't touch Angular. I never jumped on the Angular bandwagon, and when I read the A-v2 would not be compatible with A-v3, I was glad I didn't. 6. I've found that the real complexity of web development is actually the UI. The mess of HTML, CSS, and Javascript. While the pain of UI itself can't easily mitigated for the non-boilerplate stuff, sticking with some existing frameworks (I'm getting enough experience with Boostrap and jqWidgets to actually do meaningful things nowadays) has helped me a lot when it comes to learning the pain points of said frameworks. 7. I have a strict web development process now: a
Thanks Marc. I've been swimming in the muck that is the current web-dev swamp, and your excellent description was enough to give me enough hope there is a manageable way through this mess :)
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My highly opinionated response. Python is great for small things. Python sucks for large development because productivity is crippled by having to run code (either manually or by writing unit tests) to fix stupid syntax errors that a compiled language would tell you about right away (or even the IDE). Django, like Rails, is an opinionated framework. New releases break old code, at least major new releases, from what I've seen. We're stuck on Python 2.7 and an old version Django because everything will break if we upgrade and also because of the customization that was done to Django. And Django is written in Python, see first point. Ruby is an awful language actually. RoR is an interesting but opinionated framework, like Django, and I don't buy into their opinions. ASP.NET/WebPages/WebForms all just seems like overkill to web development, especially when integrated with Entity Framework, its potential tie in with IIS, and its interdependency with SQL Server. So, in my equally opinionated world, but at least they're my opinions: 1. I don't use ASP.NET/Web-whatever, or IIS. I use C# for server development and have a robust and efficient set of modular components that I wrote for serving the web pages, js, css, doing logging, emailing, configuration management, etc. 2. I have a boilerplate library of HTML/JS/CSS and backend C# endpoints that I use for site basics: registration, email, authentication, authorization, etc. 3. I'm not married to SQL Server because I don't tie in to frameworks that use SQL Server. But the only other contender that I like to work with is PostgreSQL, the rest I won't touch. 4. SPA is not a pain. I've used Backbone at work, it's easy to use if you color within the lines, I also use my own simple SPA js library, and there are some interesting (and small) SPA frameworks out there that I haven't looked at if you don't want to use Backbone. 5. I won't touch Angular. I never jumped on the Angular bandwagon, and when I read the A-v2 would not be compatible with A-v3, I was glad I didn't. 6. I've found that the real complexity of web development is actually the UI. The mess of HTML, CSS, and Javascript. While the pain of UI itself can't easily mitigated for the non-boilerplate stuff, sticking with some existing frameworks (I'm getting enough experience with Boostrap and jqWidgets to actually do meaningful things nowadays) has helped me a lot when it comes to learning the pain points of said frameworks. 7. I have a strict web development process now: a
What language do you use to write the handlers for your REST calls on the server side? Is it C#? If so, how do you do it, since you do not use ASP.NET and IIS?
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I won't dive in too deep. but with ASP.NET you're definitely not tied to SQL Server. It'll work with a ton of different SQL and NoSQL providers. My preference is C#, ASP.NET and MVC. VS is getting a little out of hand, but VS Code will run on any major platform and .NET Core is platform independent. Lots and lots of work is being put into this and, give or take a few speed bumps while they sorted out v1.0, it all seems very, very solid.
cheers Chris Maunder
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
First let me swipe a mystery for you: .NET does not force the use of MS SQL!!! Every decent SQL/NoSQL has connectors for every decent framework including .NET. And even in has no a native .NET connector, you can use ODBC or OLEDB too... So choosing database and framework are not related really... I'm an old Microsoft web developer (not old in age but old in experience of almost 20 years)... Used to write web pages in Notepad... The first step you have to do in becoming a language agnostic web developer is to embrace the idea of the separation. Do not think of your solution as a monolithic one, but pick the best solution for the DAL, the server and the client separately... After all these years my basic solution for every size of web application is creating a DAL using C# (it has nothing to do with web development and this part of the code is reused almost for every one of my applications), creating a web service (I mostly use C# for this too, but also PHP had it chances) along some standard like REST (I mostly used the MVC pattern here and today I explore the ASP.NET Core to gain multi-platform), the last thing is the UI where the limit is the sky... There are endless libraries with their strength and weakness - you only have to pick your favorite... (I use jQuery for DOM, pure JS for code and a home made variant of bootstrap to visual)...
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Again, choose a language based on the job at hand. The Elm language is definitely a worthy contender for SPA. Elixir (for backend), the Elm+Elixir combination will ensure high performance as well.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Again, choose a language based on the job at hand. The Elm language [^]is definitely a worthy contender for SPA. Elixir (for backend), the Elm+Elixir combination will ensure high performance as well.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Again, choose a language based on the job at hand. The Elm language is definitely a worthy contender for SPA. Elixir (for backend), the Elm+Elixir combination will ensure high performance as well.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
in my humble opinion...forget PHP and Python. Go for Java
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Hi My advice is don't tie yourself to one language but have a range you can choose from. Love or hate them I primarily use Microsoft tools. My language of choice is ASP.Net combined with jQuery, Javascript, and Bootstrap (or other web UI framework). There isn't any web application (SPA) or otherwise that I can't generate using those tools. I also use AngularJS, and MVC and even plan old HTML and CSS in a text editor. (I have to say I am not a fan of SPA, nothing against them, just don't see the point. No I don't want to debate that) Having been doing these web apps large and small apps for a while now I can get the best performance quite easily no matter what tools and technologies I use, and I've worked on some pretty big systems. If you bear in mind that at the end of the day your browser pretty much expects a server to spill out HTML and perhaps a bit of Java, so the tools you use are almost irrelevant and your choice in how you want your server to spit out that HTML. Try not to listen to the hype as its all your personal preference. Find a language and tools that achieves your objectives and go with that. That said you might be swayed buy potential career opportunities. If you looking to build a career look at the job boards for the most popular tools. It will all change again in a few years anyway so just look to build on any experience you have I see Java/PHP/Lamp etc requested all over the place, it's pretty popular for sure. I don't use any of that and have never been short of work. There will always be debates on what is the best and its all nonsense. Most is subjective and personal preference and I stopped engaging in such debates years ago.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Hi My advice is don't tie yourself to one language but have a range you can choose from. Love or hate them I primarily use Microsoft tools. My language of choice is ASP.Net combined with jQuery, Javascript, and Bootstrap (or other web UI framework). There isn't any web application (SPA) or otherwise that I can't generate using those tools. I also use AngularJS, and MVC and even plan old HTML and CSS in a text editor. (I have to say I am not a fan of SPA, nothing against them, just don't see the point. No I don't want to debate that) Having been doing these web apps large and small apps for a while now I can get the best performance quite easily no matter what tools and technologies I use, and I've worked on some pretty big systems. If you bear in mind that at the end of the day your browser pretty much expects a server to spill out HTML and perhaps a bit of Java, so the tools you use are almost irrelevant and your choice in how you want your server to spit out that HTML. Try not to listen to the hype as its all your personal preference. Find a language and tools that achieves your objectives and go with that. That said you might be swayed buy potential career opportunities. If you looking to build a career look at the job boards for the most popular tools. It will all change again in a few years anyway so just look to build on any experience you have I see Java/PHP/Lamp etc requested all over the place, it's pretty popular for sure. I don't use any of that and have never been short of work. There will always be debates on what is the best and its all nonsense. Most is subjective and personal preference and I stopped engaging in such debates years ago.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Hi My advice is don't tie yourself to one language but have a range you can choose from. Love or hate them I primarily use Microsoft tools. My language of choice is ASP.Net combined with jQuery, Javascript, and Bootstrap (or other web UI framework). There isn't any web application (SPA) or otherwise that I can't generate using those tools. I also use AngularJS, and MVC and even plan old HTML and CSS in a text editor. (I have to say I am not a fan of SPA, nothing against them, just don't see the point. No I don't want to debate that) Having been doing these web apps large and small apps for a while now I can get the best performance quite easily no matter what tools and technologies I use, and I've worked on some pretty big systems. If you bear in mind that at the end of the day your browser pretty much expects a server to spill out HTML and perhaps a bit of Java, so the tools you use are almost irrelevant and your choice in how you want your server to spit out that HTML. Try not to listen to the hype as its all your personal preference. Find a language and tools that achieves your objectives and go with that. That said you might be swayed buy potential career opportunities. If you looking to build a career look at the job boards for the most popular tools. It will all change again in a few years anyway so just look to build on any experience you have I see Java/PHP/Lamp etc requested all over the place, it's pretty popular for sure. I don't use any of that and have never been short of work. There will always be debates on what is the best and its all nonsense. Most is subjective and personal preference and I stopped engaging in such debates years ago.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Hi My advice is don't tie yourself to one language but have a range you can choose from. Love or hate them I primarily use Microsoft tools. My language of choice is ASP.Net combined with jQuery, Javascript, and Bootstrap (or other web UI framework). There isn't any web application (SPA) or otherwise that I can't generate using those tools. I also use AngularJS, and MVC and even plan old HTML and CSS in a text editor. (I have to say I am not a fan of SPA, nothing against them, just don't see the point. No I don't want to debate that) Having been doing these web apps large and small apps for a while now I can get the best performance quite easily no matter what tools and technologies I use, and I've worked on some pretty big systems. If you bear in mind that at the end of the day your browser pretty much expects a server to spill out HTML and perhaps a bit of Java, so the tools you use are almost irrelevant and your choice in how you want your server to spit out that HTML. Try not to listen to the hype as its all your personal preference. Find a language and tools that achieves your objectives and go with that. That said you might be swayed buy potential career opportunities. If you looking to build a career look at the job boards for the most popular tools. It will all change again in a few years anyway so just look to build on any experience you have I see Java/PHP/Lamp etc requested all over the place, it's pretty popular for sure. I don't use any of that and have never been short of work. There will always be debates on what is the best and its all nonsense. Most is subjective and personal preference and I stopped engaging in such debates years ago.
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
Hi My advice is don't tie yourself to one language but have a range you can choose from. Love or hate them I primarily use Microsoft tools. My language of choice is ASP.Net combined with jQuery, Javascript, and Bootstrap (or other web UI framework). There isn't any web application (SPA) or otherwise that I can't generate using those tools. I also use AngularJS, and MVC and even plan old HTML and CSS in a text editor. (I have to say I am not a fan of SPA, nothing against them, just don't see the point. No I don't want to debate that) Having been doing these web apps large and small apps for a while now I can get the best performance quite easily no matter what tools and technologies I use, and I've worked on some pretty big systems. If you bear in mind that at the end of the day your browser pretty much expects a server to spill out HTML and perhaps a bit of Java, so the tools you use are almost irrelevant and your choice in how you want your server to spit out that HTML. Try not to listen to the hype as its all your personal preference. Find a language and tools that achieves your objectives and go with that. That said you might be swayed buy potential career opportunities. If you looking to build a career look at the job boards for the most popular tools. It will all change again in a few years anyway so just look to build on any experience you have I see Java/PHP/Lamp etc requested all over the place, it's pretty popular for sure. I don't use any of that and have never been short of work. There will always be debates on what is the best and its all nonsense. Most is subjective and personal preference and I stopped engaging in such debates years ago.
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What language do you use to write the handlers for your REST calls on the server side? Is it C#? If so, how do you do it, since you do not use ASP.NET and IIS?
Dimitrios Kalemis wrote:
What language do you use to write the handlers for your REST calls on the server side? Is it C#? If so, how do you do it, since you do not use ASP.NET and IIS?
C# HttpListener[^] Used in my library like this[^]. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
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I have been using Node.JS for a long time now. I jumped on the hype train with everyone else and now regret it. JavaScript is a pain. NPM is a pain. The belief that everything should client rendered SPA is a pain (yes I have heard people say this. Now Node isn't too terribly horrible, but it is often overkill, and other times just annoying. I have decided that I am going to stop using Node for everything and perhaps stop using Node primarily. I primarily freelance. I do anything from simple sites for small businesses, more complex sites with features like e-commerce, and even some mid-sized web applications. I want to learn something that is mature, but not COBOL mature and can handle anything from small sites to larger applications. I also purposely want to avoid learning any of the "hip" languages for right now (i.e. Go) So far, I have had much trouble debating what to learn. At first, I looked towards Ruby on Rails. I actually don't mind the Ruby language, and Rails has been popular for a while now. I gave that option up quickly, though. After a little research, I decided RoR was dead, at least in respect to new projects. I can't find very many RoR programmers that are not moving to Elixir and Phoenix. ASP.Net was ok. ASP.Net WebPages provided simple support for small sites needing only a little information from the backend. ASP.Net WebForms provided a step up for bigger websites needing more complex features and ASP.Net MVC could be used for larger websites and complex web applications. There were a few issues, though. I hate being tied to Microsoft. VS is great and all, but I would be forced to use SQL Server and it would be hard to find hosting. Plus, with the release of ASP.Net core, WebPages and WebForms are gone so ASP.Net will be overkill for smaller sites. I next looked at Python. The language is pretty good. and I don't see Django or Flask becoming obsolete too soon, but I am not sure about that. From what I've seen, Python will be primarily a data science language and will shy away from web development. I have recently evaluated PHP too. At one point I was a PHP hater, but the language and it's tooling seem to have improved greatly. PHP is great for simple sites, but if I need a more complex site or application, there are great frameworks like Laravel or Symphony. For someone without much exposure to PHP, however, it seems a little hard to learn. Not in the aspect of language complexity, but in the aspect of outdated tutorials, documentation, etc.... Most PHP7 tutorials I see assume you were a
The only time I've enjoyed doing web development was when I used the GoogleWebToolkit (GWT). All in Java, easy to debug, no hassle with quirks from browsers, etc. A dauting learning curve, yes, which also leaves you with the syndrom of the white page at first. But also very flexible. Further suggestion, look into using a framework (Highly recommend MVP) to help you focus your design as GWT gives so much freedom that it's hard to know where to start when new to it.
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Dimitrios Kalemis wrote:
What language do you use to write the handlers for your REST calls on the server side? Is it C#? If so, how do you do it, since you do not use ASP.NET and IIS?
C# HttpListener[^] Used in my library like this[^]. Marc
Imperative to Functional Programming Succinctly Contributors Wanted for Higher Order Programming Project! Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Thank you for sharing! Your method (the Clifton Method of software implementation) is really impressive! By the way, the last link you gave me is missing an "s" from the end. It should be: https://github.com/cliftonm/clifton/blob/master/Clifton.Web/Clifton.WebServerService/WebServer.cs Thank you again!
