Life as developer (on-call)
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I just started a new development position 2 months ago. Great pay, great benefits, stock options, etc.. Lot's of developers and other professionals here, including PhD's .. and no one makes even close to 250-300. Again, bull$hit.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
Kevin I hate to tell you this but there are positions out there that pay that sort of money and more, I am of similar experience and have a niche position that is more than comparable. The conditions may be crap but the raw income is excellent.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Work/life balance is a myth
"Coming soon"
Well there are American developers.. And there is the rest of the world! ;P We are pretty good here in Australia!
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
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Leng Vang wrote:
What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
It was a requirement at my first job, which quickly no longer applied to me. Slept through some calls, and whenever I didn't I would still have to wake up some coworker to get anything done. You'd get paid extra for it, ofcourse. There's no such thing as work without pay. That simple sentence is a kind of auto-balance system in itself :thumbsup:
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
You are my hero! :)
A new .NET Serializer All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar Taking over the world since 1371!
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I'm curious about us developers whom have the unfortunate (or fortunate depend on your taste) of being on call. I used to do that for 10+ years on my previous job, hated every minute of it. Waking up at 3 am just to solve some silly issue. Recently I just turned down a position with Amazon, the pay is among the best ($250-300K) but I just can't cope with the On-call. What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
I was on call for about two weeks on a project when the usual support person wasn't available. The thing is that they can call you any time, so it limits you - you might have to not go out with friends or at the least take a laptop with you in case you need to handle a call. Being called (waken up) in the middle of the night to resolve an issue isn't fun. It depends on what kind of person you are, but it can influence you in that you don't sleep well because you are expecting to be called. I did get paid for the overtime though, so that was nice, but I wouldn't want do it again and definitely not for an extended period.
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Work/life balance is a myth
"Coming soon"
It can be hit and myth, thyure, but you've got to take the rough with the shmooth.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Work so that you might live, do not live to work.
Speed of sound - 1100 ft/sec Speed of light - 186,000 mi/sec Speed of stupid - instantaneous.
NotPolitcallyCorrect wrote:
Work so that you might live, do not live to work.
I believe the absolute reverse of that. If you don't love your work, your life's not worth living.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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NotPolitcallyCorrect wrote:
Work so that you might live, do not live to work.
I believe the absolute reverse of that. If you don't love your work, your life's not worth living.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
your life's not worth living
Ah, so, if you spend your whole life working, when do you have time to live?
Speed of sound - 1100 ft/sec Speed of light - 186,000 mi/sec Speed of stupid - instantaneous.
Everyone* spends the majority of their waking hours working. If you hate your work, you're pretty much screwed. * Everyone with a full-time job, that is.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm curious about us developers whom have the unfortunate (or fortunate depend on your taste) of being on call. I used to do that for 10+ years on my previous job, hated every minute of it. Waking up at 3 am just to solve some silly issue. Recently I just turned down a position with Amazon, the pay is among the best ($250-300K) but I just can't cope with the On-call. What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
As a freelancer, I'm usually the only contact my clients have with any technical knowledge at all (certainly regarding applications, sometimes regarding hosted websites etc too). Therefore, if there's a problem - I'm the only one who can fix it. That means effectively being permanently on-call not only for my "current" (active) clients but all my clients still running my software. That means you might not have dealt with someone for 2 or 3 years, but if their hard-disk suddenly gets full, or a d/b gets corrupted, you either choose to deal with it, or you effectively write off any chance they might come back to you for future work. (as well as having to live with the knowledge you may have just caused their business to fail). In fact problems are often a trigger for them to re-contact you, remember how f***ing awesome you are, and decide that they can't put off that enhancement project any longer. I make sure all my clients fully understand I'm a one-man band, and simply can't be available 24x7x52, but that I will always do my best to get them out of whatever tight spot they get into, support-wise. Knowing that you're the go-to person for any problem really helps to focus the mind during development, too, as you need to account for those "once-in-a-year" edge cases; if you don't, you can bet they occur at the most inopportune time for you to fix. You have to factor in "lifetime support" when billing for development; with a client who doesn't know you, that can seem expensive so you need good referrals and reputation. Most importantly, you simply need to love doing what you do; then when you get called away from your favourite film, or some other thing you were really happy to be doing, it's not that big a sacrifice. The hard bit is being as equally "on-call" to family and friends. If a system goes down, get it back up and running a.s.a.p. and fix the root cause at a more convenient time.
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Everyone* spends the majority of their waking hours working. If you hate your work, you're pretty much screwed. * Everyone with a full-time job, that is.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I don't hate my work, it has plenty of fun moments and is fulfilling, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't get paid. There are dozens of other things I would be doing if I didn't need the money; family, friends, enthusiasms. It's an amazing world out there beyond my programs. That's how I see it. That reminds me of a great quote about the "world" though not specifically relevant to the discussion. " You can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q, Star Trek Next Gen
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I don't hate my work, it has plenty of fun moments and is fulfilling, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't get paid. There are dozens of other things I would be doing if I didn't need the money; family, friends, enthusiasms. It's an amazing world out there beyond my programs. That's how I see it. That reminds me of a great quote about the "world" though not specifically relevant to the discussion. " You can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q, Star Trek Next Gen
Sorry, but all Sci-Fi quotes directed at me have to be either from Firefly or The Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy (but NOT the godawful disney atrocity!)
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Everyone* spends the majority of their waking hours working. If you hate your work, you're pretty much screwed. * Everyone with a full-time job, that is.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
If you hate your work
If has nothing at all to do with loving or hating your work.
Speed of sound - 1100 ft/sec Speed of light - 186,000 mi/sec Speed of stupid - instantaneous.
Ah, that explains it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Sorry, but all Sci-Fi quotes directed at me have to be either from Firefly or The Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy (but NOT the godawful disney atrocity!)
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm curious about us developers whom have the unfortunate (or fortunate depend on your taste) of being on call. I used to do that for 10+ years on my previous job, hated every minute of it. Waking up at 3 am just to solve some silly issue. Recently I just turned down a position with Amazon, the pay is among the best ($250-300K) but I just can't cope with the On-call. What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
I hate using phones as a result...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I responded, "On salary? Are you out of your f*ckin minds?", and I was out the door.
You took time to respond to them? So kind of you. As soon as that 'we expect 60 hours' was said just walking out without saying a thing would have sent the loudest message.
Sin tack ear lol Pressing the any key may be continuate
You can tell them off while getting out of your chair and walking you know. :-\
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Well, it's full of stars, and maybe I'm getting to old for this. I'll phone home, to see if anyone's in, and get the smeg out of here, if there is. Don't worry, though; I'll be back.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Kevin I hate to tell you this but there are positions out there that pay that sort of money and more, I am of similar experience and have a niche position that is more than comparable. The conditions may be crap but the raw income is excellent.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I'm curious about us developers whom have the unfortunate (or fortunate depend on your taste) of being on call. I used to do that for 10+ years on my previous job, hated every minute of it. Waking up at 3 am just to solve some silly issue. Recently I just turned down a position with Amazon, the pay is among the best ($250-300K) but I just can't cope with the On-call. What are your opinions on on-call, especially work/life balance goes?
I have turned down a lot of 24/7 - 365 stuff. But I "am" on call because of my consulting work. I have been called in at all hours, and remember a few years ago a 10pm call in, I left at 7am and slept the entire day. I focus on having things setup so I am not needed like that. (Fail to backup, start the restore. Or fail to backup, and WAIT until I wake up, LOL) Nowadays with workers across the globe, hire some bloke in Australia or vice versa. We have a few Russians to help cover the nights if we need it. But we work to LIVE, not the other way around. Or at least we shouldn't.
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I moved as a developer in manufacturing and utility environments since 1986. For the first 13 years, I was on call for the items I developed/supported, and that was 7x24x365. There was also 24x7x365 on site coverage by a separate group - they 'operators' if you will. They had a manual for each system describing common issues and how to address them. We would only be called if there was an issue they couldn't resolve. Even at that, having in depth knowledge of the system, we could resolve most of the issues without having to log in. Then.. new position - not on call for the first 7 years while I was a contractor; the last 5 years were as an employee and then I was on call for everything in the department, and that was about 1 week out of 8. In my position now, I am on call every 10 weeks. All 'calls' are handled as text messages and support can be done remotely - I take my laptop phone every night. So... on call? I like what I do for a living; I develop relationships with the rank-and-file and they appreciate the service they get.
I also work in the manufacturing industry and have had many years of on call support. Even though it is not always fun, it was very valuable. In the manufacturing industry (industrial robotics) it really helps to understand the environment in which these machines operate. It is important to also understand all the different kinds of users. This domain knowledge is what differentiates the great developers from good or average developers. The code we write is not always that difficult, but without an understanding of the context, it is easy to make the wrong technical decisions. I am glad I did the on-call support early in my career. Definitely....