Some advice needed...
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Aside from the suggestion to get involved in side projects, I'm getting the sense you may not have gotten a satisfying response yet, so I'll throw my two cents in. Share and teach what you know You could use the excess intellectual bandwidth to find ways to help others past the "dazed and confused" state they are in. Find ways to make what you're doing more clear, concise and engaging. This in itself can be challenging. It's one thing to design and implement complex solutions which you understand, but it's something completely different to create/design/implement solutions which are simple, elegant and accessible to others. I'm not suggesting you dumb down what you do, but rather, play to the room. If the room isn't at your level, then work on getting them there. If your peers aren't willing to try and get passed the "dazed and confused" stage, that indicates a problem of the will and not necessarily intellect. If this is the case, then find somewhere that a)Has people that are closer to your level or b)Has people that are open to learning. The developers I've admired and respected most have been the ones that have been not only been incredibly intelligent, but who also had a desire to share and teach others.
You are correct sir. It turns out I'm in a bit of a toxic environment, and I do agree it goes back to poor will. As such, I believe the best course is to simply change environments and then take heed to what you're saying. I don't want to be toxic anymore.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Surely, someone on CP has faced this too?
I'll take a stab at this. I've been on both sides of the fence, feeling like the people I'm working with are little better than zombies, and also experiencing people who can think circles around me. In both situations, I often choose patience. Patience with them, patience with me. And it is NOT easy--I think patience is one of the hardest skills to learn. What's really interesting though, and this brings me to my second point, is when you're in a room full of basically smart people in their own way, but you know damn well that each of them is performing the equivalent of mental bowel movements at their own pace. Or, less colorful, "digestion." This is an important thing to consider, because everyone digests at a different rate -- taking in the useful information, discarding the non-essential. And to make it worse, the essential and non-essential is different for every person. Oh yeah, my second point -- communication. The funny thing is, those people that can run circles around me, well, they actually struggle with communication often enough, just as I struggle with communication when I'm running circles around other people. So that's the second hardest skill to learn and requires skill in the first. The patience to communicate clearly. And the third point is, it's a total waste of energy comparing yourself to others. You are both unique and different (I'll skip the BS talk about everyone having different "gifts" and "everyone has different talents" which in my opinion is BS because so few people actually really reach their talent potential.) Sooo....
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
I look at myself (depending on my mood) and accept the challenge to communicate what I think I see so clearly with the patience necessary to wait for others to see it. And the funny thing is, by communication, I actually mean listening, because in order to figure out what, often enough (I'm quite serious) needs to be said in about 10 words and 10 seconds (as opposed to this post) is the result of intense listening to learn where the other person is struggling and to get into their mindset / digestive process. And when I realize what that is, it's like freaking magic. It's an awesome experience for everyone when the room sudden
Marc, you know I like you, and for a good reason... you're spot on man. Upon careful reflection over the weekend it simply just dawned on me I'm in a toxic environment. People are moody and angry and negligent here, and over the past year I've quite simply fell into that trap myself. It's bad juju man. I don't want to become that, and my weaknesses have exasperated because of this.
Jeremy Falcon
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So Jeremy, I posted a reply somewhere a bit ago, but Marc, your reply is spot on. BTW Marc, thanks for the countless articles and contributions to this community.
I read it man. It was a good reply. Thanks again for it.
Jeremy Falcon
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raddevus wrote:
You never know if you know anything until you try to explain it to others.
Actually it is Einstein who said
“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.”
... which tells me 2 things: (1) That's pretty much what we see in Q&A (2) You're a deep thinker like Einstein
I'm retired. There's a nap for that... - Harvey
That's a fair point actually, to which I agree. I figured out over the weekend that I'm just in a toxic environment and well it's exposed some of my weaknesses.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy, I have walked your path to discover: Frustration = (Expectation - Reality) * EGO; // I had it posted on my wall to remind me So, we become so smart, that we see where Reality SHOULD BE (Expectation), and that DIFFERENCE is a little unnerving (people who think nobody should starve, realizing millions are starving). The last factor is your EGO (or mine, back then). It makes the problem worse. If you had NO EGO, the difference would not bother you. This is often thought of wisdom. where the wise old man laughs at the folly of the youthful in tilting at windmills. Also, when everything is as it should be, all is fine. One feels no frustration.
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Touché!
Jeremy Falcon
Big Douglas Adams fan, but I also considered: "Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid" -Credited to Albert Einstein In this context OP seems to be using the same measuring stick for everyone. OP believes that problem solving quickly is the best indicator or intelligence. This is undoubtedly bias since the OP is a good problem solver. People are diverse and bring many skills and view points to anything they do. I would say by classifying himself as the smartest person in the room OP handicaps himself compared to the person willing to be wrong and entertain multiple suggestions/view points.
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Big Douglas Adams fan, but I also considered: "Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid" -Credited to Albert Einstein In this context OP seems to be using the same measuring stick for everyone. OP believes that problem solving quickly is the best indicator or intelligence. This is undoubtedly bias since the OP is a good problem solver. People are diverse and bring many skills and view points to anything they do. I would say by classifying himself as the smartest person in the room OP handicaps himself compared to the person willing to be wrong and entertain multiple suggestions/view points.
You assume too much and this seems more destructive condensation than constructive feedback. Might be worthwhile gleaning from the other posts here to get a feel for their tone. I'm learning to avoid toxic people now so I no longer become one, and you sir are such. Have a nice day.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
There are so many things you could do... * Get over yourself. Your writing isn't that smart. You're probably misperceiving how much other people "get it". I'm a smart guy too, but I never claim to be the smartest guy in the room. Even if it might be true, you must develop the habit of slapping yourself whenever you begin to think that, and look for the things you're missing that your colleagues are getting. * Marry a smart woman. She'll put you in your place post haste, not necessarily by putting you down, but merely by having brilliant insights you hadn't had. * Get a new job working with/for smart people. When interviewing, I always say my goal is to be the dumbest guy in the room, so I can learn the most. * Learn something new and technical. That'll put you in your place right away. Get that dumbass novice feeling back. It'll make you more humble. And if it doesn't, then you just were lazy and didn't pick something hard enough.
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You assume too much and this seems more destructive condensation than constructive feedback. Might be worthwhile gleaning from the other posts here to get a feel for their tone. I'm learning to avoid toxic people now so I no longer become one, and you sir are such. Have a nice day.
Jeremy Falcon
I see your point and have deleted my comment. I was making assumption, and interpreting this subject in a negative light. There is nothing in the topic that would convey the... I suppose superiority complex or egotism I was presuming. Considering this is the Lounge where I come to see light, good-natured, and entertaining conversations I should not have gone that direction. My experience with smartest person in the room usually has a person who thinks it is them and is condescending to others. I automatically, and probably incorrectly, placed OP in that group instead of the preferred group where the truly smartest person makes others feel as though they are by being open-minded and encouraging instead of overbearing or patronizing. I should remember to take the second group with me instead of the first. Thank you, I did not even realize I was being so negative and pessimistic. I need to pickup a Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams tonight and reboot in a better mindset tomorrow.
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There are so many things you could do... * Get over yourself. Your writing isn't that smart. You're probably misperceiving how much other people "get it". I'm a smart guy too, but I never claim to be the smartest guy in the room. Even if it might be true, you must develop the habit of slapping yourself whenever you begin to think that, and look for the things you're missing that your colleagues are getting. * Marry a smart woman. She'll put you in your place post haste, not necessarily by putting you down, but merely by having brilliant insights you hadn't had. * Get a new job working with/for smart people. When interviewing, I always say my goal is to be the dumbest guy in the room, so I can learn the most. * Learn something new and technical. That'll put you in your place right away. Get that dumbass novice feeling back. It'll make you more humble. And if it doesn't, then you just were lazy and didn't pick something hard enough.
Not really interested in your condescending post. Go away.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
I understand your feelings. I have a developer friend who felt more or less the same as you describe - he was IMHO the smartest person around his work circle (a government financial institution), and was actually treated like a rock star by his peers. He really SHINED, but felt unsatisfied and was looking for a much bigger intellectual challenge. He actually managed to enter a top-tier software company, and the frustration went the other way; now he was surrounded by extremely smart people that often offered better solutions, or could program much faster than he could; the bar got so high that suddenly he had become just an average developer. He tries to stay positive and humble, as he is now in a position where he is learning and pushing himself more; he also misses - A LOT - his old job ;) I guess that what I'm somehow trying to express is that frustration can go both ways and as much as everything in life, job satisfaction is a delicate act of balance. I know - easier said than done. I sincerely hope brighter days lay ahead for you! =)
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I see your point and have deleted my comment. I was making assumption, and interpreting this subject in a negative light. There is nothing in the topic that would convey the... I suppose superiority complex or egotism I was presuming. Considering this is the Lounge where I come to see light, good-natured, and entertaining conversations I should not have gone that direction. My experience with smartest person in the room usually has a person who thinks it is them and is condescending to others. I automatically, and probably incorrectly, placed OP in that group instead of the preferred group where the truly smartest person makes others feel as though they are by being open-minded and encouraging instead of overbearing or patronizing. I should remember to take the second group with me instead of the first. Thank you, I did not even realize I was being so negative and pessimistic. I need to pickup a Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams tonight and reboot in a better mindset tomorrow.
Then you are a smart cookie. And I totally get it. I've been doing that myself quite a lot for the past year. Funny how interpretation works... especially over such a dry medium as the web. Perhaps I should've posted it in the SB, but I at least genuinely wanted some folks to see it. Anywho, it's all good. And you're absolutely correct about your experiences. I couldn't agree with you more. Which is why I have to keep myself in check to make sure it's not ego talking. Which I'm totally susceptible to.
Jeremy Falcon
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I understand your feelings. I have a developer friend who felt more or less the same as you describe - he was IMHO the smartest person around his work circle (a government financial institution), and was actually treated like a rock star by his peers. He really SHINED, but felt unsatisfied and was looking for a much bigger intellectual challenge. He actually managed to enter a top-tier software company, and the frustration went the other way; now he was surrounded by extremely smart people that often offered better solutions, or could program much faster than he could; the bar got so high that suddenly he had become just an average developer. He tries to stay positive and humble, as he is now in a position where he is learning and pushing himself more; he also misses - A LOT - his old job ;) I guess that what I'm somehow trying to express is that frustration can go both ways and as much as everything in life, job satisfaction is a delicate act of balance. I know - easier said than done. I sincerely hope brighter days lay ahead for you! =)
That's exactly it!!! Here, I'm the only person that's gotten a rockstar award like - ever. And I know I'm not the best developer in the world. But here you'd think I was. This is exactly what I'm going through, and well at times I miss being able to grow. Here I'm stagnant. Thanks for the kind words.
Jeremy Falcon
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Thanks for this. I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. I do think I need to continue my own growth though from people I consider more knowledgable than myself. It's just been my go-to for that has been books rather than those around me. But, your post rings totally true man. Thanks for your perspective.
Jeremy Falcon
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Not really interested in your condescending post. Go away.
Jeremy Falcon
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Marc, you know I like you, and for a good reason... you're spot on man. Upon careful reflection over the weekend it simply just dawned on me I'm in a toxic environment. People are moody and angry and negligent here, and over the past year I've quite simply fell into that trap myself. It's bad juju man. I don't want to become that, and my weaknesses have exasperated because of this.
Jeremy Falcon
Thanks for the response, Jeremy. Given where I work, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I'm in a toxic environment.
While I don't have the moody/angry/negligent situation at my work, you're response has helped me realize that I would consider my work environment toxic as well, but for lesser reasons -- cubicle, no windows, no social contact except a Monday meeting and inane lunchtime conversation with the other team members that I don't see otherwise because they are in their cubicles all day, and while my supervisor is awesome (one of the few redeeming things) her supervisor is a control freak with little people skills. So, while writing my original response, I was also thinking about my own situation and the irony that I had emailed said control freak supervisor with a "you know, we haven't really had a chance to get to know each other, how about lunch some time" bridge building attempt. Sadly, the response was "I work through lunch, [and reading between the lines] so piss off." :sigh: Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Thanks for the response, Jeremy. Given where I work, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I'm in a toxic environment.
While I don't have the moody/angry/negligent situation at my work, you're response has helped me realize that I would consider my work environment toxic as well, but for lesser reasons -- cubicle, no windows, no social contact except a Monday meeting and inane lunchtime conversation with the other team members that I don't see otherwise because they are in their cubicles all day, and while my supervisor is awesome (one of the few redeeming things) her supervisor is a control freak with little people skills. So, while writing my original response, I was also thinking about my own situation and the irony that I had emailed said control freak supervisor with a "you know, we haven't really had a chance to get to know each other, how about lunch some time" bridge building attempt. Sadly, the response was "I work through lunch, [and reading between the lines] so piss off." :sigh: Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Truly wise you are man for being introspective like that, and I suppose I should be grateful then as the people I work with attempt to at least be sociable.... being Hollywood and all. But it's still to the point it's a hit and miss at times. Not that I'm perfect either... far from it. I've just learned some things and gotten over some insecurities that few people in IT ever do. And it's been rough to deal. Irony is, reading your post now has made me realize to be more positive. Even if I changed environments... or not... or whatever... be grateful you know. And you can always chat with me if you're feeling the lonely blues man. I totally understand how that goes. Been dealign with that myself here lately when I moved halfway across the country to a land completely different. Hope it gets better for you.
Jeremy Falcon
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Wasn't intended as condescention, but as a list of antidotes for feeling like you're the smartest person in the room. I get that if you were humble-bragging, you don't really want this list.
Fair enough. I suppose if I felt superior and liked it then I'd need a dose of keep-it-real medicine; it wouldn't give me anxiety though if I liked it. I tried to make that point clear. Maybe I should've tried harder. In retrospect it may be due to communication issues that are deep rooted in me. And being in a toxic environment didn't really help. I get where you're coming from though. Putting myself in your place I'd probably assume the same thing.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
This will take real self awareness and reflection, and I think using the words "smartest person in the room" is dangerous because it can make you arrogant and complacent. Avoid situations and companies where you are the only person learning and growing, but be open to learning from others. Everyone needs to learn to identify what other people know that they don't. Without knowing the specifics of your situation maybe the truth is that the other people are merely interested in learning different things? On the other hand, most companies are stagnant and a little stupid and the fact that they haven't yet bankrupted themselves or been superseded by a smarter more nimble competitor is remarkable!
Idaho Edokpayi
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This will take real self awareness and reflection, and I think using the words "smartest person in the room" is dangerous because it can make you arrogant and complacent. Avoid situations and companies where you are the only person learning and growing, but be open to learning from others. Everyone needs to learn to identify what other people know that they don't. Without knowing the specifics of your situation maybe the truth is that the other people are merely interested in learning different things? On the other hand, most companies are stagnant and a little stupid and the fact that they haven't yet bankrupted themselves or been superseded by a smarter more nimble competitor is remarkable!
Idaho Edokpayi
Thanks for this man. And what you speak of is truth. What I think the issue really is, rather than saying everyone is stupid, is we have a bunch of people with social anxiety issues here that are overly stressed. Getting in their heads too much and thus not paying attention to anything. So they lack clarity.
Idaho Edokpayi wrote:
On the other hand, most companies are stagnant and a little stupid and the fact that they haven't yet bankrupted themselves or been superseded by a smarter more nimble competitor is remarkable!
Preach it brother.
Jeremy Falcon