Some advice needed...
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Jeremy, I have walked your path to discover: Frustration = (Expectation - Reality) * EGO; // I had it posted on my wall to remind me So, we become so smart, that we see where Reality SHOULD BE (Expectation), and that DIFFERENCE is a little unnerving (people who think nobody should starve, realizing millions are starving). The last factor is your EGO (or mine, back then). It makes the problem worse. If you had NO EGO, the difference would not bother you. This is often thought of wisdom. where the wise old man laughs at the folly of the youthful in tilting at windmills. Also, when everything is as it should be, all is fine. One feels no frustration.
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Touché!
Jeremy Falcon
Big Douglas Adams fan, but I also considered: "Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid" -Credited to Albert Einstein In this context OP seems to be using the same measuring stick for everyone. OP believes that problem solving quickly is the best indicator or intelligence. This is undoubtedly bias since the OP is a good problem solver. People are diverse and bring many skills and view points to anything they do. I would say by classifying himself as the smartest person in the room OP handicaps himself compared to the person willing to be wrong and entertain multiple suggestions/view points.
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Big Douglas Adams fan, but I also considered: "Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid" -Credited to Albert Einstein In this context OP seems to be using the same measuring stick for everyone. OP believes that problem solving quickly is the best indicator or intelligence. This is undoubtedly bias since the OP is a good problem solver. People are diverse and bring many skills and view points to anything they do. I would say by classifying himself as the smartest person in the room OP handicaps himself compared to the person willing to be wrong and entertain multiple suggestions/view points.
You assume too much and this seems more destructive condensation than constructive feedback. Might be worthwhile gleaning from the other posts here to get a feel for their tone. I'm learning to avoid toxic people now so I no longer become one, and you sir are such. Have a nice day.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
There are so many things you could do... * Get over yourself. Your writing isn't that smart. You're probably misperceiving how much other people "get it". I'm a smart guy too, but I never claim to be the smartest guy in the room. Even if it might be true, you must develop the habit of slapping yourself whenever you begin to think that, and look for the things you're missing that your colleagues are getting. * Marry a smart woman. She'll put you in your place post haste, not necessarily by putting you down, but merely by having brilliant insights you hadn't had. * Get a new job working with/for smart people. When interviewing, I always say my goal is to be the dumbest guy in the room, so I can learn the most. * Learn something new and technical. That'll put you in your place right away. Get that dumbass novice feeling back. It'll make you more humble. And if it doesn't, then you just were lazy and didn't pick something hard enough.
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You assume too much and this seems more destructive condensation than constructive feedback. Might be worthwhile gleaning from the other posts here to get a feel for their tone. I'm learning to avoid toxic people now so I no longer become one, and you sir are such. Have a nice day.
Jeremy Falcon
I see your point and have deleted my comment. I was making assumption, and interpreting this subject in a negative light. There is nothing in the topic that would convey the... I suppose superiority complex or egotism I was presuming. Considering this is the Lounge where I come to see light, good-natured, and entertaining conversations I should not have gone that direction. My experience with smartest person in the room usually has a person who thinks it is them and is condescending to others. I automatically, and probably incorrectly, placed OP in that group instead of the preferred group where the truly smartest person makes others feel as though they are by being open-minded and encouraging instead of overbearing or patronizing. I should remember to take the second group with me instead of the first. Thank you, I did not even realize I was being so negative and pessimistic. I need to pickup a Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams tonight and reboot in a better mindset tomorrow.
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There are so many things you could do... * Get over yourself. Your writing isn't that smart. You're probably misperceiving how much other people "get it". I'm a smart guy too, but I never claim to be the smartest guy in the room. Even if it might be true, you must develop the habit of slapping yourself whenever you begin to think that, and look for the things you're missing that your colleagues are getting. * Marry a smart woman. She'll put you in your place post haste, not necessarily by putting you down, but merely by having brilliant insights you hadn't had. * Get a new job working with/for smart people. When interviewing, I always say my goal is to be the dumbest guy in the room, so I can learn the most. * Learn something new and technical. That'll put you in your place right away. Get that dumbass novice feeling back. It'll make you more humble. And if it doesn't, then you just were lazy and didn't pick something hard enough.
Not really interested in your condescending post. Go away.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
I understand your feelings. I have a developer friend who felt more or less the same as you describe - he was IMHO the smartest person around his work circle (a government financial institution), and was actually treated like a rock star by his peers. He really SHINED, but felt unsatisfied and was looking for a much bigger intellectual challenge. He actually managed to enter a top-tier software company, and the frustration went the other way; now he was surrounded by extremely smart people that often offered better solutions, or could program much faster than he could; the bar got so high that suddenly he had become just an average developer. He tries to stay positive and humble, as he is now in a position where he is learning and pushing himself more; he also misses - A LOT - his old job ;) I guess that what I'm somehow trying to express is that frustration can go both ways and as much as everything in life, job satisfaction is a delicate act of balance. I know - easier said than done. I sincerely hope brighter days lay ahead for you! =)
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I see your point and have deleted my comment. I was making assumption, and interpreting this subject in a negative light. There is nothing in the topic that would convey the... I suppose superiority complex or egotism I was presuming. Considering this is the Lounge where I come to see light, good-natured, and entertaining conversations I should not have gone that direction. My experience with smartest person in the room usually has a person who thinks it is them and is condescending to others. I automatically, and probably incorrectly, placed OP in that group instead of the preferred group where the truly smartest person makes others feel as though they are by being open-minded and encouraging instead of overbearing or patronizing. I should remember to take the second group with me instead of the first. Thank you, I did not even realize I was being so negative and pessimistic. I need to pickup a Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams tonight and reboot in a better mindset tomorrow.
Then you are a smart cookie. And I totally get it. I've been doing that myself quite a lot for the past year. Funny how interpretation works... especially over such a dry medium as the web. Perhaps I should've posted it in the SB, but I at least genuinely wanted some folks to see it. Anywho, it's all good. And you're absolutely correct about your experiences. I couldn't agree with you more. Which is why I have to keep myself in check to make sure it's not ego talking. Which I'm totally susceptible to.
Jeremy Falcon
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I understand your feelings. I have a developer friend who felt more or less the same as you describe - he was IMHO the smartest person around his work circle (a government financial institution), and was actually treated like a rock star by his peers. He really SHINED, but felt unsatisfied and was looking for a much bigger intellectual challenge. He actually managed to enter a top-tier software company, and the frustration went the other way; now he was surrounded by extremely smart people that often offered better solutions, or could program much faster than he could; the bar got so high that suddenly he had become just an average developer. He tries to stay positive and humble, as he is now in a position where he is learning and pushing himself more; he also misses - A LOT - his old job ;) I guess that what I'm somehow trying to express is that frustration can go both ways and as much as everything in life, job satisfaction is a delicate act of balance. I know - easier said than done. I sincerely hope brighter days lay ahead for you! =)
That's exactly it!!! Here, I'm the only person that's gotten a rockstar award like - ever. And I know I'm not the best developer in the world. But here you'd think I was. This is exactly what I'm going through, and well at times I miss being able to grow. Here I'm stagnant. Thanks for the kind words.
Jeremy Falcon
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Thanks for this. I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. I do think I need to continue my own growth though from people I consider more knowledgable than myself. It's just been my go-to for that has been books rather than those around me. But, your post rings totally true man. Thanks for your perspective.
Jeremy Falcon
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Not really interested in your condescending post. Go away.
Jeremy Falcon
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Marc, you know I like you, and for a good reason... you're spot on man. Upon careful reflection over the weekend it simply just dawned on me I'm in a toxic environment. People are moody and angry and negligent here, and over the past year I've quite simply fell into that trap myself. It's bad juju man. I don't want to become that, and my weaknesses have exasperated because of this.
Jeremy Falcon
Thanks for the response, Jeremy. Given where I work, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I'm in a toxic environment.
While I don't have the moody/angry/negligent situation at my work, you're response has helped me realize that I would consider my work environment toxic as well, but for lesser reasons -- cubicle, no windows, no social contact except a Monday meeting and inane lunchtime conversation with the other team members that I don't see otherwise because they are in their cubicles all day, and while my supervisor is awesome (one of the few redeeming things) her supervisor is a control freak with little people skills. So, while writing my original response, I was also thinking about my own situation and the irony that I had emailed said control freak supervisor with a "you know, we haven't really had a chance to get to know each other, how about lunch some time" bridge building attempt. Sadly, the response was "I work through lunch, [and reading between the lines] so piss off." :sigh: Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Thanks for the response, Jeremy. Given where I work, it's nice to get some positive feedback.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I'm in a toxic environment.
While I don't have the moody/angry/negligent situation at my work, you're response has helped me realize that I would consider my work environment toxic as well, but for lesser reasons -- cubicle, no windows, no social contact except a Monday meeting and inane lunchtime conversation with the other team members that I don't see otherwise because they are in their cubicles all day, and while my supervisor is awesome (one of the few redeeming things) her supervisor is a control freak with little people skills. So, while writing my original response, I was also thinking about my own situation and the irony that I had emailed said control freak supervisor with a "you know, we haven't really had a chance to get to know each other, how about lunch some time" bridge building attempt. Sadly, the response was "I work through lunch, [and reading between the lines] so piss off." :sigh: Marc
Latest Article - Merkle Trees Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Truly wise you are man for being introspective like that, and I suppose I should be grateful then as the people I work with attempt to at least be sociable.... being Hollywood and all. But it's still to the point it's a hit and miss at times. Not that I'm perfect either... far from it. I've just learned some things and gotten over some insecurities that few people in IT ever do. And it's been rough to deal. Irony is, reading your post now has made me realize to be more positive. Even if I changed environments... or not... or whatever... be grateful you know. And you can always chat with me if you're feeling the lonely blues man. I totally understand how that goes. Been dealign with that myself here lately when I moved halfway across the country to a land completely different. Hope it gets better for you.
Jeremy Falcon
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Wasn't intended as condescention, but as a list of antidotes for feeling like you're the smartest person in the room. I get that if you were humble-bragging, you don't really want this list.
Fair enough. I suppose if I felt superior and liked it then I'd need a dose of keep-it-real medicine; it wouldn't give me anxiety though if I liked it. I tried to make that point clear. Maybe I should've tried harder. In retrospect it may be due to communication issues that are deep rooted in me. And being in a toxic environment didn't really help. I get where you're coming from though. Putting myself in your place I'd probably assume the same thing.
Jeremy Falcon
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
This will take real self awareness and reflection, and I think using the words "smartest person in the room" is dangerous because it can make you arrogant and complacent. Avoid situations and companies where you are the only person learning and growing, but be open to learning from others. Everyone needs to learn to identify what other people know that they don't. Without knowing the specifics of your situation maybe the truth is that the other people are merely interested in learning different things? On the other hand, most companies are stagnant and a little stupid and the fact that they haven't yet bankrupted themselves or been superseded by a smarter more nimble competitor is remarkable!
Idaho Edokpayi
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This will take real self awareness and reflection, and I think using the words "smartest person in the room" is dangerous because it can make you arrogant and complacent. Avoid situations and companies where you are the only person learning and growing, but be open to learning from others. Everyone needs to learn to identify what other people know that they don't. Without knowing the specifics of your situation maybe the truth is that the other people are merely interested in learning different things? On the other hand, most companies are stagnant and a little stupid and the fact that they haven't yet bankrupted themselves or been superseded by a smarter more nimble competitor is remarkable!
Idaho Edokpayi
Thanks for this man. And what you speak of is truth. What I think the issue really is, rather than saying everyone is stupid, is we have a bunch of people with social anxiety issues here that are overly stressed. Getting in their heads too much and thus not paying attention to anything. So they lack clarity.
Idaho Edokpayi wrote:
On the other hand, most companies are stagnant and a little stupid and the fact that they haven't yet bankrupted themselves or been superseded by a smarter more nimble competitor is remarkable!
Preach it brother.
Jeremy Falcon
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Thanks for this man. And what you speak of is truth. What I think the issue really is, rather than saying everyone is stupid, is we have a bunch of people with social anxiety issues here that are overly stressed. Getting in their heads too much and thus not paying attention to anything. So they lack clarity.
Idaho Edokpayi wrote:
On the other hand, most companies are stagnant and a little stupid and the fact that they haven't yet bankrupted themselves or been superseded by a smarter more nimble competitor is remarkable!
Preach it brother.
Jeremy Falcon
I think many of us have been where you are. The truth is that for most of us THERE IS NO HAPPY PLACE. Maybe you can work for yourself? As coders we have to learn that most businesses are not in the business of code - stupid code is ok as long as it makes money. However, business does not seem to be aware of the extent that code can disrupt the current way that they do business.
Idaho Edokpayi
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I think many of us have been where you are. The truth is that for most of us THERE IS NO HAPPY PLACE. Maybe you can work for yourself? As coders we have to learn that most businesses are not in the business of code - stupid code is ok as long as it makes money. However, business does not seem to be aware of the extent that code can disrupt the current way that they do business.
Idaho Edokpayi
I know what you mean man, but it's not even so much code related. It's just cognitive acumen I'm referring to. The code can suffer as a result of that, but I wouldn't expect business people to know code no more than I expect me to be an expert mechanic when taking my truck to the shop. Anyway, it's amazing what stress and social anxiety can do. Never really seen just how much it messes with a person until you get a group of people together that all have it.
Jeremy Falcon
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I know what you mean man, but it's not even so much code related. It's just cognitive acumen I'm referring to. The code can suffer as a result of that, but I wouldn't expect business people to know code no more than I expect me to be an expert mechanic when taking my truck to the shop. Anyway, it's amazing what stress and social anxiety can do. Never really seen just how much it messes with a person until you get a group of people together that all have it.
Jeremy Falcon
I am speaking to the value assigned to developers and people who aggressively use technology to solve problems. A kid with some javascript and a database can replace thousands of human hours of labor in a week.
Idaho Edokpayi
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So, in our careers, I'm sure we've all learned there are really smart people and there are those that aren't. Maybe they pretend to be smart when not, maybe they embrace being not so smart and just laugh at it. Maybe they're not book smart, but street smart. And sometimes we think someone is less intelligent, when they're in fact super smart. And vice versa. Either way, you get the drift. However, despite appearances, there are those that seem to figure things out and those that don't. And by the nature of even suggesting you're more intelligent than another, also lends itself to arrogance. Which everyone knows arrogance and intelligence conflict and cannot be considered smart. And yet, even Einstein thought the world stupid. And of course, it doesn't mean to say that less intelligent people cannot teach more intelligent people things and vice versa. But, what do you guys do, when faced with a situation where you feel it's impossible to grow intellectually because of the environment? In situations where you clearly know you're the smartest in the room, save a few gems you meet on occasion? And I don't mean smart as in knowing more about computers. I mean smart as in being more aware and conscious, less in your head and more observant, picking up on things quicker, remembering more, etc... cognition and perception prowess as it were. Everyone else seems dazed and confused, and you get bored. I know for me, I've been annoyed and frustrated with this practically my whole life, to the point it can create undue stress. Which is counter intuitive and destructive actually, because increased "knowing" should make people happy. And frustration is bad juju that's contagious. And yet, I'm still undecided if this is mainly due to me looking for the worst in people and trying to feel smarter due to inherent insecurities, or in fact I just am. Or both. Surely, someone on CP has faced this too? What do you guys do when you clearly know you see things clearer but you're alone in that regards?
Jeremy Falcon
Don't worry about what the other boys do, worry about what you do. Use your gift by all means, but don't brag or criticise others for not being a clever as you. Help them because one day you'll need someone to help you. No-one is invincible; if you pay it forward it will come back to you by another route.