Do you want some cheese with that whine?
-
With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
To be pedantic what's called "microsoft windows" is not an OS, the package delivered as "microsoft windows" (3.1 .. 10) is an OS with: a built-in window manager and internet browser to name just a couple of non OS items. Which is OK, if you could choose to replace or use another similar item - but with windows you cant. (not easily). One of the advantages of unix and it's offspring is that it is just an OS with implementation dependant hardware drivers (and the ability to add more necessary hardware drivers.) Don't like the look of the windows: you can choose another (and most are independently very configurable to very different looks, even how the mouse works and when windowed apps become active...), don't like a particular internet browser: you can choose another without having baggage of something you are never going to use built in and loaded into memory. don't like the console (shell) ..., don't like the control panel ... It would be really nice if ms gave us an os without the non-os items so tightly bolted in. Instead they are in fact going the opposite direction: now they are forcing the choice of browser so that it's difficult (and they are hinting soon to be impossible) to choose another even if you can live with non used crap loaded up. How long before they take away the old style windows mode and force it to be full time in that ugly metro (or whatever it's going to be called tomorrow) mode? (Don't doubt me, that will come.) windows is a good os, the non-alterable crap bolted on that's the killer. Nobody complains say linux is ugly (difficult yes, but not ugly) because the interface, the look, the way it acts is full configurable to how you want it. All an OS is and should be is a callable software interface to the hardware.
Sin tack the any key okay
-
Ehr, yes. Look at this.[^] This man designed the chipsets of the early Atari consoles and 8 bit computers. And look what he later called his own company and what chipset he disigned then. So I must welcome you to the Atari fanbois after all that time. :-) The real irony is that the Atari ST, which actually was released before the Amiga and caught on a lot better in Europe, was designed and sold by the guys who designed the Commodore 64. Commodore had fired their boss, Jack Tramiel, who simply bought himself Atari and then sold their successor to the C64 under that name. The Atari fanbois were defending their Commodore, the Commodore fanbois were fighting for their Atari. It can't get any more silly, but deeply religious fanbois (no matter of what, exactly) will never get it.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The 16 bit Amiga was more popular than the Atari ST.
As a game console, yes. Not if you had work to do.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Then machines that had trouble showing 16 colors took over.
That really felt like a huge step back into the stone age.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
No, I don't think they did. They got another hammer, and nailed some of the Win 7 bits back on rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
That is the root point. I am aware that is impossible to satisfy every people, but hey... at least read the comments, analyze them as much objective as you can and do the best out of them. That would spare them and us (users) a lot of problems.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The 16 bit Amiga was more popular than the Atari ST.
As a game console, yes. Not if you had work to do.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Then machines that had trouble showing 16 colors took over.
That really felt like a huge step back into the stone age.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.CDP1802 wrote:
As a game console, yes. Not if you had work to do.
Why as a game console? Due to the colorfull windows that it supported? What do you use now? :)
CDP1802 wrote:
That really felt like a huge step back into the stone age.
Yes, mostly because some people would prefer WP5.1 over Kindwords[^].
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
-
CDP1802 wrote:
As a game console, yes. Not if you had work to do.
Why as a game console? Due to the colorfull windows that it supported? What do you use now? :)
CDP1802 wrote:
That really felt like a huge step back into the stone age.
Yes, mostly because some people would prefer WP5.1 over Kindwords[^].
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Why as a game console? Due to the colorfull windows that it supported? What do you use now?
No, due to the low resolution. The Atari went the opposite way and came with a monochrome monitor, higher resolution and absolutely flicker free. If you had hours of work to do, your eyes would have been grateful for the ST. And yes, back in the day I sat in the same room with the Amiga guys and passed the processor documentation back and forth. We used to agree that The hardware of the Amiga (plus the ST's monochrome monitor for work) with the Atari's TOS/GEM (plus the Amiga's multitasking) wiuld have been heaven on earth. In a way you can have that now if you buy a FPGA based computer that can emulate both and then install the current (!) free version of TOS/GEM.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Why as a game console? Due to the colorfull windows that it supported? What do you use now?
No, due to the low resolution. The Atari went the opposite way and came with a monochrome monitor, higher resolution and absolutely flicker free. If you had hours of work to do, your eyes would have been grateful for the ST. And yes, back in the day I sat in the same room with the Amiga guys and passed the processor documentation back and forth. We used to agree that The hardware of the Amiga (plus the ST's monochrome monitor for work) with the Atari's TOS/GEM (plus the Amiga's multitasking) wiuld have been heaven on earth. In a way you can have that now if you buy a FPGA based computer that can emulate both and then install the current (!) free version of TOS/GEM.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
of that time
What time are we talking about? 1985, before the first Amiga found its way into a store? Or 1993 after Commodore already was out of business? I know, I'm mean to you. :-) The truth is that both companies were unable to come up with an adequate next generation. What they did was too little and too late, so both went the way of the dinosaurs.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
of that time
What time are we talking about? 1985, before the first Amiga found its way into a store? Or 1993 after Commodore already was out of business? I know, I'm mean to you. :-) The truth is that both companies were unable to come up with an adequate next generation. What they did was too little and too late, so both went the way of the dinosaurs.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.CDP1802 wrote:
The truth is that both companies were unable to come up with an adequate next generation
You mean something as cheap as a PC clone; not something technical better, but simply cheaper thanks to mass-production. So yes, the original statement stands :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
-
CDP1802 wrote:
The truth is that both companies were unable to come up with an adequate next generation
You mean something as cheap as a PC clone; not something technical better, but simply cheaper thanks to mass-production. So yes, the original statement stands :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
It's not quite that easy. The new Motorola processors had some trouble keeping up with the faster 486 processors and the then upcoming Pentium. The VGA graphics cards were more primitive, but they supported ever higher resolutions, not that they were used very much. And then the new PCs got ever more memory and bigger hard disks. So yes, at least until the Pentium PCs they were all about brute force, not sophistication.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
It's not quite that easy. The new Motorola processors had some trouble keeping up with the faster 486 processors and the then upcoming Pentium. The VGA graphics cards were more primitive, but they supported ever higher resolutions, not that they were used very much. And then the new PCs got ever more memory and bigger hard disks. So yes, at least until the Pentium PCs they were all about brute force, not sophistication.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.CDP1802 wrote:
It's not quite that easy. The new Motorola processors had some trouble keeping up with the faster 486 processors
It is that easy. By the time the 486 came out the PC already owned the workplace.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
-
Cornelius Henning wrote:
I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
And which religion would that belief represent? MS bashing has been the standard for every hobbyist since the early nineties, because it made them look knowledgable. I'd guess they continued to do so in the professional career.
Cornelius Henning wrote:
I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system!
I did! Doesn't mean I won't be touching Windows no more, on the contrary.
Cornelius Henning wrote:
Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there?
The "best" for whom, under what conditions? If I owned a large company, then Windows would be the only logical choise, regardless of my personal preferences. Though the Commodore Amiga is still the superiour machine, in both hard- and software, I do realize that most bussiness (=mostly MS related) software won't be compatible. If you want to complain about something MS, then complain about the managers who fail to adhere to the UxGuide. The reason Windows comes without a manual (contrary to DOS) is that it is intuitive, and has some COMMON CONTROLS. Things that are recognizable as buttons (which means the user knows where to click) and listboxes (which work the same in every app!). Nowadays you have to hover your mouse over the entire screen, looking for hidden buttons and pop-ins/overs/outs. For most of the complaining people: you'd whish you'd be half a MS. Go look at your stocks and realize you're not. --edit A pinot noire with gruyere please :)
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^][](X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett)
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Though the Commodore Amiga is still the superiour machine, in both hard- and software...
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
-
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Though the Commodore Amiga is still the superiour machine, in both hard- and software...
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
-
:thumbsup: I can just about justify buying a Raspberry Pi kit for "research" (AKA playing around). I hate to think what my wife would do if I bought one of those. :)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack. --Winston Churchill
-
No, I don't think they did. They got another hammer, and nailed some of the Win 7 bits back on rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
You are voicing the opinion of the silent majority, positive rarely gets a mention whereas negative bleats and howls all over the internet.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Now you got to be strong
Cornelius Henning wrote:
I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
The same minority that did not like Vista, also the same that strangely left Win 7 alone and then rejected Win 8 again. See a pattern? For ten years Mickeysoft has treated us to one failure after another and, to answer your questions, don't want their stuff anymore even if it's 'free'. And, for my part, I'm sick and tired of investing time and money into yet another failure. Win 10 is not a failure, you say? That's kindof old news.[^] By the way, do you really think that that buggy memory hog is 'arguably the world's premier IDE'? Really? VS 2008 was the last I ever used and have been using a free alternative ever since. I'm missing one debugger feature, but that's all. No need to put up with Mickeysoft's bloatware, 'free' or not. And you wanted to know why some people don't install the 'free' updates? Because you don't know these days what else they try to install without asking. You don't only get 'free' updates, you also get Mickeysoft's current agenda along with them. I'm sure they only want our best, which seems to be our money. After 10 years of such desasters, I think they will not get it anymore. Mickysoft has jumped the shark and nuked the fridge years ago and will just get crazier every time they move on to their next failure. Just wait what happens when they finally drop Win 10 for the next 'it's the future!' grand idea they try to ram down our throats.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a fucking golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?" "You mean like from space?" "No, from Canada." If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns. -
And btw, I think most of us will fighting with updating a simple app, while MS manages meanwhile very good to upgrade an OS. Only my quarter of a a half pence :laugh:
:thumbsup:
-
With all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP, let us not forget what Microsoft provides totally free of charge: 1. Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017, arguably the world's premier IDE for developers. Seven years ago you could get a free copy of VS 2010 Express, that had limited functionality, but the free Community Edition of 2017 has full functionality. 2. For twelve months anyone could get a free upgrade for all operating systems after Vista to Windows 10. If you did not upgrade you did so at your own peril. More than 90% of machines that were affected by the Wanna Cry virus were running Windows 7. No Windows 10 systems were affected. If you did not upgrade, why didn't you? 3. All security patches for Windows are free. Weeks before the Wanna Cry outbreak, Microsoft made available a free patch to plug the vulnerability in Windows 7 that was exploited by the virus. Apparently thousands around the globe failed to install the patch and paid the price. Don't blame Microsoft! 4. I see some contributors refer to Windows as an inferior OS. If that is your opinion, switch to another system! Or do you secretly know that Windows is the best operating system out there? I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Absolutely! I have been using Windows 10 and have no reason to revert back to Win7. Win10 together with Office365 offers some really unique features. I, for one, absolutely love it's Quick Access feature which shows recently modified files both locally and from OneDrive, sorted by last modified date. Now they will be packing this feature up to SharePoint sites as well. The OS is now complementing their products both locally and on the cloud. Which is a great feature. Users can now access files from local machine, OneDrive, and SharePoint sites from the explorer itself. :) As a developer, VS will always remain my best product. Product might be a vague term. It can be a software. It can be a website. It can be a OS. For me, no matter what the category is, VS will remain the pick of all. That is one seamless stuff from MS! :)
-
You do raise some good points, thanks! However, I believe the "ugliness" stems from Microsoft's own guidelines for the visual appearance of productivity apps. Their guidelines make for some very bland and uninteresting users' interfaces. Personally, I do think they take the UI guidelines too far, but that is not reason enough to shoot down the entire OS. I have been using 10 for more than a year now, and on the whole I am happy with it.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Cornelius, You are right on some points overall. But if you are asking WHY I tend to Hate MSFT Windows, et al. My BIGGEST Complaints... 1) NOTHING they promise you will be supported in the future (16 bit C++, Silverlight, etc) 2) They PREVENT software (Office 2000) from installing on newer OSes... Forcing Upgrades 3) You like VS 2017. Okay, I have some code for a client, all done in VS about 9 years ago. He called, He would like a handful of simple changes. Without MY ORIGINAL version of VS, and using this new wonderful 2017 tool... Can you even recompile it? Every VS Serious developer I know has LITERALLY 3 versions of VS on their machine for this reason. Not 1 version. 4) I went from Windows XP to Windows 7. I love Windows 7. Windows 8 came on my wifes computer. I wish I could have you spend the time it takes to show her how to do things. For one, I would have ASSUMED RIGHT CLICKING on a blank panel would let you go to properties, and change the configuration of that panel. NOPE. 5) They keep moving the standards. Right click gets dropped when I am not in a touch screen? What they did to Office Toolbars is pathological. These Ribbons, Ugghhh. and then they SHOVE it down your throat. I used to be able to support my clients by launching a GoToMeeting, sharing their screen, ASKING for keyboard/mouse control, and then install software, etc. But windows 8 came out, and Elevated Prompts don't get sent to my screen. My clients have to sit there and okay everything or click on buttons for me. Without an EASY work around. I now PAY for TeamViewer so I can switch to that, because, IMO, Microsoft broke how things work. Most of my clients have been with me for 20years. You have no idea how many headaches I get because MSFT has changed rules about writing data to the program directory, or competing software labeled as unsafe to install (LOL). Finally, there are problems with ALL OSes... They are imperfect because we are all growing and learning. But if the OFFICE document format was truly inter-operable, I believe MSFT would lose about 30% of its market share of the desktop. (So, I like the products in general. I hate the way they move forward and force everyone to throw their investments out!)
