BA offshored 700 IT jobs last year..
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Offshoring, it is not worth it. The quality goes through the floor.
It's never been a good idea and this simply highlights that. My experience with offshoring is that it starts cheap and gets expensive. To paraphrase Red Adair, "If you think it's expensive to hire local talent, wait till you offshore..."
You wouldnt believe the crap I have seen coming from an offshore team. It was a driver. They had absoloutely no idea what they were doing, and cobbled together two code samples from the WDK. It was as unstable as shit. Had as many variants as there were products (i was that closely coupled to the hardware). Their git layout was a mess, their testing was ineffective, and their understanding of the technical domain and tools almost zero. And a big, I mean massive, global company relied on them for this driver. Needless to say that I, as a contractor, though expensive, was much cheaper than an entire office offshore, staffed by at least 6 to 10 people, and produced, in a few months, a better driver. After the dev cycle was complete it was handed over to this offshore team to maintain! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: What a dumbass decision. Oh well, it is their loss.
-
150 million it is costing them so far. Lets say they saved 20K a year for those 700 jobs, that is only 14 million.
Per year and someone mentioned 2 year ago so 28mil and they will have some sort of insurance coverage to mitigate the cost so they probably still see it as viable. Assuming of course it was a software problem and not a power supply.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
-
Per year and someone mentioned 2 year ago so 28mil and they will have some sort of insurance coverage to mitigate the cost so they probably still see it as viable. Assuming of course it was a software problem and not a power supply.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Someone mentioning 2 years ago is irrelevant, the news is reporting last year.
-
Quote:
you can't buy: a good reputation for example. You can throw it away very easily though.
Yes! A good reputation is like virginity. You lose it once and that's it!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
You lose it once and then you're screwed?
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
-
MicroSoft (Sathya Nadella), Google (Sundar Pichai), etc., have hired offshore talent for management. So have several US and European banks. It is time that BA fired its chairman and hired someone out of India! :laugh:
Vivic wrote:
MicroSoft
Vivic wrote:
Google
That should give the general idea of how a bad decision it would be!
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF * GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X * Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game. * I'm a puny punmaker.
-
And some things you can't buy: a good reputation for example. You can throw it away very easily though.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
Kabaam! 2 days of complete screw up costing god knows how many millions in compensation. Offshoring, it is not worth it. The quality goes through the floor.
Offshoring is a relative term. If I sent work to your country, I'd be offshoring. We used a group from India before and had very good results. You have to find the right people to work with.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Offshoring is a relative term. If I sent work to your country, I'd be offshoring. We used a group from India before and had very good results. You have to find the right people to work with.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
You got lucky. I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself.
-
You got lucky. I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
You got lucky.
Possibly. We managed it quite well though.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself
Yes, me too.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
You got lucky.
Possibly. We managed it quite well though.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself
Yes, me too.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Did you manage the workers directly at all? I think when done this way it goes better.
-
Did you manage the workers directly at all? I think when done this way it goes better.
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Did you manage the workers directly at all?
Yes. And we had a phone call everyday and followed the parts of SCRUM that I liked. I also gave them very clear design specifications. They did a really good job. I think you need to set standards and move on if they can't meet them. Just like you would if you hired a developer. I think it is funny in a worldwide website for most people to complain about offshoring. Like I said, you would be offshoring to me and I to you. So,all offshoring can't be that bad. :-D
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Did you manage the workers directly at all?
Yes. And we had a phone call everyday and followed the parts of SCRUM that I liked. I also gave them very clear design specifications. They did a really good job. I think you need to set standards and move on if they can't meet them. Just like you would if you hired a developer. I think it is funny in a worldwide website for most people to complain about offshoring. Like I said, you would be offshoring to me and I to you. So,all offshoring can't be that bad. :-D
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Ah, yes, when managed this closely, and managed by westerners, they do better. I think it is cultural. Not many cultures find it easy to say to a manager/customer 'no, it cant be done' or 'that is impossible'. 'Problem management'. Instead of facing up to problems they pretend they dont exist, then the day before delivery.... Managed directly this cultural issue goes away (because you are doing the 'problem management') but it can be very difficult to extract a direct answer from an Indian. Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
-
Ah, yes, when managed this closely, and managed by westerners, they do better. I think it is cultural. Not many cultures find it easy to say to a manager/customer 'no, it cant be done' or 'that is impossible'. 'Problem management'. Instead of facing up to problems they pretend they dont exist, then the day before delivery.... Managed directly this cultural issue goes away (because you are doing the 'problem management') but it can be very difficult to extract a direct answer from an Indian. Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
With the first group we had, yes. We then asked for others and got some really good developers. Many people were looking to save money and India stepped up and made that an option, and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
With the first group we had, yes. We then asked for others and got some really good developers. Many people were looking to save money and India stepped up and made that an option, and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RyanDev wrote:
and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
So the process went well, but you didnt actually end up saving any money? :wtf: Did you work out why?
-
I always wonder why they not are hiring the senior managment from these offshore markets. I bet these managers would be really cheaper and not worser than the actual managment. BTW: flipping a coin isnt the worst decision process. :~
Press F1 for help or google it. Greetings from Germany
KarstenK wrote:
I always wonder why they not are hiring the senior managment from these offshore markets.
That is extraordinarily profound. (+)
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
-
No, but uncle Matt from Nebrohoma read on the interwebz that BA offshored their work two years ago, and that's all he needs to know.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Nebrohoma
Neither reference is KSS. Hybridized like that is bordering unholy!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
-
RyanDev wrote:
and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
So the process went well, but you didnt actually end up saving any money? :wtf: Did you work out why?
Munchies_Matt wrote:
but you didnt actually end up saving any money?
Oh, no, we did. I'm saying that in general, it has not worked out for most people. I was agreeing with your original statement as a general statement.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Munchies_Matt wrote:
but you didnt actually end up saving any money?
Oh, no, we did. I'm saying that in general, it has not worked out for most people. I was agreeing with your original statement as a general statement.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Ah, OK. I think part of the drive to offshore these days is also the sheer lack of skills in the west. This has been solved to a large degree by massive immigration of IT workers into Canada and the US (in Europe many have come from Eastern Europe by the way (and they are actually good engineers, cultural very similar and easy to work with)) but not entirely, and the demand for IT has become so huge in the west that in fact offshoring hasnt made as big an impact on the jobs market as might have been expected. In fact sometimes it is beneficial as an expert is often needed at the end to come in and clean up the mess.
-
Kabaam! 2 days of complete screw up costing god knows how many millions in compensation. Offshoring, it is not worth it. The quality goes through the floor.
Got home last night at 2330 local time (Zürich) a very tired, sweaty and annoyed man after leaving Dublin at 0900 local on Sunday. BA need their butts kicked. When are we going to stop tolerating these crappy practices from people who are supposed to be leaders in our economies? feeling very anarchic right now.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.
-
Got home last night at 2330 local time (Zürich) a very tired, sweaty and annoyed man after leaving Dublin at 0900 local on Sunday. BA need their butts kicked. When are we going to stop tolerating these crappy practices from people who are supposed to be leaders in our economies? feeling very anarchic right now.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.
You should have driven! :)
