Why is Javascript still a thing?
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
If you're really desperate you can always give [Elm](http://elm-lang.org/) a try... Strongly-typed with type inference. Compiles to JavaScript. Can introduce incrementally, i.e., no need to rewrite everything. No runtime exceptions. (Disclaimer, I've only had a brief look.)
Kevin
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You will always find morons everywhere :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
JavaScript to my experience is like root beer. First taste is bad and saying who would drink such a foul taste drink. But you know what, the more you drink it, you grew to like more and more. Pretty soon you preferred it to other drinks, even genuine draft beer. I'm having second thought about how bad skunk smell. If you get just a fainted smell, it actually no bad at all. People paid good money for the scent. :-D
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Actually, I'm rather impressed with the debugging ability in the browser. Granted, a large monitor really helps. ;) Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Do you mean two or more monitors...
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
I'm closing on 20 years of JavaScript. You have to accept it as JavaScript, it will solve 99% of your problems. As long as you try to bend it to be C# (or like) you will fail in so many ways... If you want to feel good with the tools, try using Notepad as editor and never hit F12 while you are in the browser... After two weeks you will see the benefits of the built in debugger... ;)
Skipper: We'll fix it. Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this? Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
I'm not the biggest fan of the language either but it is quite useful. Some of those frustrating bits also give you the ability to do things that simply aren't possible in other languages. That being said, I've really started to like Typescript[^]. It's a superset of JS so you basically just have to read up on how the type system works then you're good to go.
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It boosts IT employment, shortens the life of those same people, and as a side effect keeps thousands of coffee farm workers busy in far flung places like Kenya and Brazil (even if they only earn a dollar a week.) Think of the horror if they fixed that sort of stuff... hundreds of IT folks out in public... think of the children!
Sin tack the any key okay
u seem to have a point there..also see below.. That paradigm will be defined by three key characteristics, Nadella explained: Every computing task and experience will be "multi-device, multi-sense" with multiple means of input and output; artificial intelligence will be built into every application and device; and there will be an increased use of containers, microservices and server-less technologies that provide new ways to develop, distribute and manage applications.
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I guess you could call me a moron, because I do write server side code in JavaScript (Nodejs that is) and a full SQL Server accessing one no less. I happen to like it better than using IIS. Only thing I missed in NodeJs is EF capability.
VB6 is still used too ;P :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
GKP1992 wrote:
if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now.
Come on, That is why we gave you Applets, Active-X, etc right? :rolleyes:
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy Falcon.
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I used to hate JavaScript for probably the same reasons you do. However, I've come to see some of its beauty. Then I ran into some issues in C# and thought to myself "this would be easy in JavaScript." Today, JavaScript is just another tool in the toolbox and, even server side, not my last choice. There are things I don't like about it, but there are certainly also things I DO like about it. And the best part is that it's getting better.
Best, Sander arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript SQL Server for C# Developers Succinctly Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
People see beauty in buckets of paint thrown at a canvas in a random fashion as well... Just sayin!
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
-
Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
JavaScript is around for one reason: To stick it to Microsoft. There was a time when types mattered (remember why "smart" people hated VB?). There was a time when performance mattered (remember when C++ was cool?). There was a time when user interface standards mattered (Anyone remember UI guidelines?). Now all that matters is having your code - however much of a mess it may be - run in a browser even though if it's a browser running on a PC, 98% of the time it will be running on Windows. But I guess we have to worry about that 2% because it could be Linux! Or, a Mac! Two percent of the market is only a failure if it's Windows phone. Why don't we write apps for PCs? That only is a smashing success for mobile. It would never work for a PC because....Microsoft owns the PC, and we can't have that. No, let's beat our heads against the wall trying to get some hacked together language to do even the most basic things.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
Have you considered using TypeScript? Several developers I know shifted from JS to TypeScript to better align their OO C# experience with generating JS.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
Yeah it has flaws. Every language and every environment does. Remember in Cobol, you had to IDENTIFY the target environment! In ForTran, God was REAL.... Unless you declared it otherwise. The biggest issue I ran into was some code declared a variable with the same name as a global IE object, and that JavaScript variable did not really work, but the code failed in IE, and worked okay in Chrome. That took me a while to debug. But the little I do with HTML, I would honestly die a thousand deaths without JavaScript!
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VB6 is still used too ;P :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
It kind of sounds like you just don't care enough to learn how to do it correctly. Don't judge others just because you have issues with it. ALL programming languages have their nuances, as well as pros and cons depending on your goals. I really don't mean to offend but I feel like your being very critical...
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
I'm kind of surprised at the lacks of specifics on this thread. So far no one, including the OP, has indicated specifically what they like or don't like about Javascript or the tools and ecosystem that surrounds it. One of the things I find most amazing about Javascript is how chameleon-like it is. Folks have created TypeScript, to provide strong typing and a more traditional OO flavor. React and other frameworks rely more on its Functional Programming flavor. Other people have compiled Javascript source into such compact code that the recently released WebAssembly standard is only a minor improvement. People have even made Javascript look like the granddaddy of OO languages, Smalltalk (Amber Smalltalk[^]). Tools around Javascript also make the language extremely powerful. Flow allows you to find flaws in your code without requiring the explicit type declarations that TypeScript utilizes. WebPack and its many plugins allows you to not only minimize your production code, but you can even create hot-loaded modules so that your enormous web app doesn't have to all be loaded when the user accesses the first page. And if you're generating minimized code, make sure you also generate source maps, so you can debug it so much more easily. Chrome's built-in developer tools are powerful, and I rely on them every day, but occasional glances at FireFox and Edge make me think they have pretty strong debugging tools as well. There's no way to tell from your post what it is about Javascript you don't like, or how much experience you have with the language, and so its impossible to suggest approaches that might help you deal with your issues. And there's no doubt that Javascript continues to have its limitations. But it still seems to me that Javascript survives not only because it is the only game in town for front-end web programming, but because it is a remarkably adaptable tool that enjoys strong support from a large, vibrant developer community.
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Have you considered using TypeScript? Several developers I know shifted from JS to TypeScript to better align their OO C# experience with generating JS.
MSBassSinger wrote:
Have you considered using TypeScript?
I have actually, but I'm just a poor developer. However, I have initiated the decision process and now it rests with the managers. I hope they don't find it too "expensive".
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
Bridge.NET is what I choose to use for web crap: Bridge.NET - Open Source C# to JavaScript Compiler[^]
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I'm kind of surprised at the lacks of specifics on this thread. So far no one, including the OP, has indicated specifically what they like or don't like about Javascript or the tools and ecosystem that surrounds it. One of the things I find most amazing about Javascript is how chameleon-like it is. Folks have created TypeScript, to provide strong typing and a more traditional OO flavor. React and other frameworks rely more on its Functional Programming flavor. Other people have compiled Javascript source into such compact code that the recently released WebAssembly standard is only a minor improvement. People have even made Javascript look like the granddaddy of OO languages, Smalltalk (Amber Smalltalk[^]). Tools around Javascript also make the language extremely powerful. Flow allows you to find flaws in your code without requiring the explicit type declarations that TypeScript utilizes. WebPack and its many plugins allows you to not only minimize your production code, but you can even create hot-loaded modules so that your enormous web app doesn't have to all be loaded when the user accesses the first page. And if you're generating minimized code, make sure you also generate source maps, so you can debug it so much more easily. Chrome's built-in developer tools are powerful, and I rely on them every day, but occasional glances at FireFox and Edge make me think they have pretty strong debugging tools as well. There's no way to tell from your post what it is about Javascript you don't like, or how much experience you have with the language, and so its impossible to suggest approaches that might help you deal with your issues. And there's no doubt that Javascript continues to have its limitations. But it still seems to me that Javascript survives not only because it is the only game in town for front-end web programming, but because it is a remarkably adaptable tool that enjoys strong support from a large, vibrant developer community.
Type safety (aka compile time errors instead of runtime ones). No standardized web bytecode it compiles to like HLSL, Vulkan shaders, .NET, Java, etc, etc leaving huge gaps in a standardized lang and API. Maybe webasm will fix that. O and crap like this: Javascript: the weird parts -- Charlie Harvey[^]
