Why is Javascript still a thing?
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
JavaScript is around for one reason: To stick it to Microsoft. There was a time when types mattered (remember why "smart" people hated VB?). There was a time when performance mattered (remember when C++ was cool?). There was a time when user interface standards mattered (Anyone remember UI guidelines?). Now all that matters is having your code - however much of a mess it may be - run in a browser even though if it's a browser running on a PC, 98% of the time it will be running on Windows. But I guess we have to worry about that 2% because it could be Linux! Or, a Mac! Two percent of the market is only a failure if it's Windows phone. Why don't we write apps for PCs? That only is a smashing success for mobile. It would never work for a PC because....Microsoft owns the PC, and we can't have that. No, let's beat our heads against the wall trying to get some hacked together language to do even the most basic things.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
Have you considered using TypeScript? Several developers I know shifted from JS to TypeScript to better align their OO C# experience with generating JS.
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
Yeah it has flaws. Every language and every environment does. Remember in Cobol, you had to IDENTIFY the target environment! In ForTran, God was REAL.... Unless you declared it otherwise. The biggest issue I ran into was some code declared a variable with the same name as a global IE object, and that JavaScript variable did not really work, but the code failed in IE, and worked okay in Chrome. That took me a while to debug. But the little I do with HTML, I would honestly die a thousand deaths without JavaScript!
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VB6 is still used too ;P :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
It kind of sounds like you just don't care enough to learn how to do it correctly. Don't judge others just because you have issues with it. ALL programming languages have their nuances, as well as pros and cons depending on your goals. I really don't mean to offend but I feel like your being very critical...
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
I'm kind of surprised at the lacks of specifics on this thread. So far no one, including the OP, has indicated specifically what they like or don't like about Javascript or the tools and ecosystem that surrounds it. One of the things I find most amazing about Javascript is how chameleon-like it is. Folks have created TypeScript, to provide strong typing and a more traditional OO flavor. React and other frameworks rely more on its Functional Programming flavor. Other people have compiled Javascript source into such compact code that the recently released WebAssembly standard is only a minor improvement. People have even made Javascript look like the granddaddy of OO languages, Smalltalk (Amber Smalltalk[^]). Tools around Javascript also make the language extremely powerful. Flow allows you to find flaws in your code without requiring the explicit type declarations that TypeScript utilizes. WebPack and its many plugins allows you to not only minimize your production code, but you can even create hot-loaded modules so that your enormous web app doesn't have to all be loaded when the user accesses the first page. And if you're generating minimized code, make sure you also generate source maps, so you can debug it so much more easily. Chrome's built-in developer tools are powerful, and I rely on them every day, but occasional glances at FireFox and Edge make me think they have pretty strong debugging tools as well. There's no way to tell from your post what it is about Javascript you don't like, or how much experience you have with the language, and so its impossible to suggest approaches that might help you deal with your issues. And there's no doubt that Javascript continues to have its limitations. But it still seems to me that Javascript survives not only because it is the only game in town for front-end web programming, but because it is a remarkably adaptable tool that enjoys strong support from a large, vibrant developer community.
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Have you considered using TypeScript? Several developers I know shifted from JS to TypeScript to better align their OO C# experience with generating JS.
MSBassSinger wrote:
Have you considered using TypeScript?
I have actually, but I'm just a poor developer. However, I have initiated the decision process and now it rests with the managers. I hope they don't find it too "expensive".
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
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Recently, I spent around day trying to find out why something was not working the way it was supposed to. And what did I found out? Nothing! Really, debugging JS code in a browser is one of the worst things about web development. So I begin to wonder, why is this mess still around? :(( Admit it, javascript has a very flawed design. The only reason we still use it, is because we have no other choice. Really if people had the choice of using a friendlier language like C# or Java, javascript would have been in the dumpster by now. I never liked a thing about Javascript and I do not think I ever will. It is crippled. Back to work I guess. And guess what, it is Javascript again. :mad: :((
I am not the one who knocks. I never knock. In fact, I hate knocking. Just barge in will'Ya?
Bridge.NET is what I choose to use for web crap: Bridge.NET - Open Source C# to JavaScript Compiler[^]
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I'm kind of surprised at the lacks of specifics on this thread. So far no one, including the OP, has indicated specifically what they like or don't like about Javascript or the tools and ecosystem that surrounds it. One of the things I find most amazing about Javascript is how chameleon-like it is. Folks have created TypeScript, to provide strong typing and a more traditional OO flavor. React and other frameworks rely more on its Functional Programming flavor. Other people have compiled Javascript source into such compact code that the recently released WebAssembly standard is only a minor improvement. People have even made Javascript look like the granddaddy of OO languages, Smalltalk (Amber Smalltalk[^]). Tools around Javascript also make the language extremely powerful. Flow allows you to find flaws in your code without requiring the explicit type declarations that TypeScript utilizes. WebPack and its many plugins allows you to not only minimize your production code, but you can even create hot-loaded modules so that your enormous web app doesn't have to all be loaded when the user accesses the first page. And if you're generating minimized code, make sure you also generate source maps, so you can debug it so much more easily. Chrome's built-in developer tools are powerful, and I rely on them every day, but occasional glances at FireFox and Edge make me think they have pretty strong debugging tools as well. There's no way to tell from your post what it is about Javascript you don't like, or how much experience you have with the language, and so its impossible to suggest approaches that might help you deal with your issues. And there's no doubt that Javascript continues to have its limitations. But it still seems to me that Javascript survives not only because it is the only game in town for front-end web programming, but because it is a remarkably adaptable tool that enjoys strong support from a large, vibrant developer community.
Type safety (aka compile time errors instead of runtime ones). No standardized web bytecode it compiles to like HLSL, Vulkan shaders, .NET, Java, etc, etc leaving huge gaps in a standardized lang and API. Maybe webasm will fix that. O and crap like this: Javascript: the weird parts -- Charlie Harvey[^]
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You can't become a CodeWraith until they have drained every bit of enthusiasm and interest from you. JavaScript (or being threatened with having to work with it) makes flipping burgers not so bad a carreer choice after all.
I don't think you can make $80K - $100k a year flipping burgers.
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
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I have to completely agree with Balboos with one minor addition: If you are frustrated by JS it's because you're trying to treat it like C#/Java. It's not the same thing, it doesn't work in the same way, and it's like being mad at a spoon for not being a fork.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
Can we have a spork? :laugh: :laugh:
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
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I don't think you can make $80K - $100k a year flipping burgers.
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
Thereb are some things you just can't buy with money, like keeping your sanity.
I need a perfect, to the point answer as I am not aware of this. Please don't reply explaining what method overloading is
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It kind of sounds like you just don't care enough to learn how to do it correctly. Don't judge others just because you have issues with it. ALL programming languages have their nuances, as well as pros and cons depending on your goals. I really don't mean to offend but I feel like your being very critical...
and it kinda sounds like you don't know how to distinguish a joke.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Thereb are some things you just can't buy with money, like keeping your sanity.
I need a perfect, to the point answer as I am not aware of this. Please don't reply explaining what method overloading is
If you love JavaScript then you get to keep your sanity and make money at the same time, which I do.
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
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If you love JavaScript then you get to keep your sanity and make money at the same time, which I do.
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
That's nice for you. I know some ladies who make that kind of money without having to play with a lacking interpreter. Still, I have no intention to join them. Sorry.
I need a perfect, to the point answer as I am not aware of this. Please don't reply explaining what method overloading is
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Can we have a spork? :laugh: :laugh:
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
Yeah. They call it TypeScript.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
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JavaScript is around for one reason: To stick it to Microsoft. There was a time when types mattered (remember why "smart" people hated VB?). There was a time when performance mattered (remember when C++ was cool?). There was a time when user interface standards mattered (Anyone remember UI guidelines?). Now all that matters is having your code - however much of a mess it may be - run in a browser even though if it's a browser running on a PC, 98% of the time it will be running on Windows. But I guess we have to worry about that 2% because it could be Linux! Or, a Mac! Two percent of the market is only a failure if it's Windows phone. Why don't we write apps for PCs? That only is a smashing success for mobile. It would never work for a PC because....Microsoft owns the PC, and we can't have that. No, let's beat our heads against the wall trying to get some hacked together language to do even the most basic things.
This. Pretty much this. I hate having to do everything on the browser. So much of the last 10 years have just been "not-microsoft", which is a sentiment I understand and get behind (monopolies are bad, but the 1990's are over).Do we really have to go back to the dark ages just to "stick it to the man" ? I hate modern "app" which are glorified browser tabs, taking 1 GB of Ram for a chat app (oh Hi Slack !) and completely failing to integrate into the OS (chromium apps leave pop-up messages open, regardless if you change focus.). Do we really need 8GB just to browse facebook? Remember the time when your apps would keep 60fps render at all times? Remember when you could use alt-tab ? Good times.
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I'm kind of surprised at the lacks of specifics on this thread. So far no one, including the OP, has indicated specifically what they like or don't like about Javascript or the tools and ecosystem that surrounds it. One of the things I find most amazing about Javascript is how chameleon-like it is. Folks have created TypeScript, to provide strong typing and a more traditional OO flavor. React and other frameworks rely more on its Functional Programming flavor. Other people have compiled Javascript source into such compact code that the recently released WebAssembly standard is only a minor improvement. People have even made Javascript look like the granddaddy of OO languages, Smalltalk (Amber Smalltalk[^]). Tools around Javascript also make the language extremely powerful. Flow allows you to find flaws in your code without requiring the explicit type declarations that TypeScript utilizes. WebPack and its many plugins allows you to not only minimize your production code, but you can even create hot-loaded modules so that your enormous web app doesn't have to all be loaded when the user accesses the first page. And if you're generating minimized code, make sure you also generate source maps, so you can debug it so much more easily. Chrome's built-in developer tools are powerful, and I rely on them every day, but occasional glances at FireFox and Edge make me think they have pretty strong debugging tools as well. There's no way to tell from your post what it is about Javascript you don't like, or how much experience you have with the language, and so its impossible to suggest approaches that might help you deal with your issues. And there's no doubt that Javascript continues to have its limitations. But it still seems to me that Javascript survives not only because it is the only game in town for front-end web programming, but because it is a remarkably adaptable tool that enjoys strong support from a large, vibrant developer community.
The problem is not its limitations. It's the lack of limitations and lack of proper enforcing of a set of rules to ensure behaviour of code. In the web world, they call it Chromium V8, in the rest of the world they call that a compiler.
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Type safety (aka compile time errors instead of runtime ones). No standardized web bytecode it compiles to like HLSL, Vulkan shaders, .NET, Java, etc, etc leaving huge gaps in a standardized lang and API. Maybe webasm will fix that. O and crap like this: Javascript: the weird parts -- Charlie Harvey[^]
Who needs type safety, when you have Strings for everything, AMIRITE??? /s
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Who needs type safety, when you have Strings for everything, AMIRITE??? /s
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Yes, but only on Firefox, Chrome works so that's all that matters. Edge what?... /s