What would be your reaction?
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Based purely on this anecdote, I think his manager made a valid observation. From HIS perspective, you are a limited resource and you are using up time of his resource in what may be unrelated to the latter's work. It's entirely possible his manager doesn't really care, but is reacting to a message given him by your manager or upper management. More importantly, this was written to another person, not you. It's really none of your business. In addition, this isn't your "own time"; it's the company's time. My advice: IF this looks like it's NOT going to blow up into a bigger issue, do nothing. Otherwise, go to the other guy's manager and say something like, "I heard you had concerns about the time I spent with X the other day. He was curious about integration and I felt that briefing him would be helpful to him and the company. I apologize for not clearing this with you first."
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Do you know his home address?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
I believe you've got a lot of good advice here. Apart from that, do you trust your own manager? If you do it could be a good idea to ask for advice as he or she might know how the other manager is wired.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Unless the manager is a known jerk, I'd assume his intentions are good and he's just trying to prevent you from being distracted/interrupted. One of the top complaints I've heard form developers I've worked with over the years is that constant distractions prevent them from accomplishing as much as they'd hoped to. It sounds to me like it's at least possible this manager knows your time is both limited and valuable, and he's trying to ensure that you've got the space needed to focus. So perhaps just approach him and tell him you appreciate that he's trying to proactively guard you from interruptions. But also mention that working with the new employee was your idea, that it helped you solve an immediate problem, and helped you better understand the third party product you integrate with. It's also possible that this manager is just upset that his new hire went off and spent a couple of hours with you, and he's using your limited schedule as an excuse to exercise a little bit of power over his subordinate. In this case, the approach of telling the manager that a) You appreciate his efforts and b) You appreciate his employee's efforts still works, because it boxes him and an makes it difficult for him to retaliate in any meaningful way. If possible, post your comments in the same chat where the original comment occurred (so your comment will also be logged), and follow up by thanking him in person too. That way, if his intentions are good, you both win. And if his intentions were nefarious, you still win...and he doesn't lose, because you make him and his new hire look good. If he's a jerk who likes playing politics, he'll note that you skilfully outmaneuvered him, and in the future he'll be careful about how he treats you to ensure you you remain an ally, not an enemy.
Ryan Peden wrote:
Unless the manager is a known jerk
Bingo! The general consensus among the rank and file is that they would never want to work for this guy. In fact, at least two people that I know of have asked (and were granted) transfers to another department because of this manager.
Ryan Peden wrote:
It's also possible that this manager is just upset that his new hire went off and spent a couple of hours with you, and he's using your limited schedule as an excuse to exercise a little bit of power over his subordinate.
Bingo again! His management style is basically smile and say good morning as he passes you in the hallway, and smack you with a stick for any initiative or deviation from his bean counter mentality until you submit to being a drone. I suspect he will incarnate as a Borg in the far future.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
My reaction would NOT be to write something in a forum somewhere on the internet. But I might be saying to myself, as long as I keep getting payed, I'll continue to do that job for which I recieve that pay. You know the sermon, the one the judge always gives to the pool of prospective jurors that are down to a single room of badge bearers but it's so late in the day that he's got to let them go. "Don't discuss the case with anyone, your kids, your wife, your dog, your mechanic, your butcher, your tailor, the guy down at the local hardware, the cashier at the bodega ..." This is a swearing-in issue.
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PeejayAdams wrote:
I'd just say to his manager, in passing, something to the effect of
Oooh, I really like that. I'll go with that. I have meeting on Tue where the manager will be present, I'll bring mention it after the meeting.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
There is nothing like being positive about a coworker to a manager, tends to confuse the crap out of them. So there are 2 benefits of doing this. This is especially valid when you are so senior/essential that you position is unassailable.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Unless the manager is a known jerk, I'd assume his intentions are good and he's just trying to prevent you from being distracted/interrupted. One of the top complaints I've heard form developers I've worked with over the years is that constant distractions prevent them from accomplishing as much as they'd hoped to. It sounds to me like it's at least possible this manager knows your time is both limited and valuable, and he's trying to ensure that you've got the space needed to focus. So perhaps just approach him and tell him you appreciate that he's trying to proactively guard you from interruptions. But also mention that working with the new employee was your idea, that it helped you solve an immediate problem, and helped you better understand the third party product you integrate with. It's also possible that this manager is just upset that his new hire went off and spent a couple of hours with you, and he's using your limited schedule as an excuse to exercise a little bit of power over his subordinate. In this case, the approach of telling the manager that a) You appreciate his efforts and b) You appreciate his employee's efforts still works, because it boxes him and an makes it difficult for him to retaliate in any meaningful way. If possible, post your comments in the same chat where the original comment occurred (so your comment will also be logged), and follow up by thanking him in person too. That way, if his intentions are good, you both win. And if his intentions were nefarious, you still win...and he doesn't lose, because you make him and his new hire look good. If he's a jerk who likes playing politics, he'll note that you skilfully outmaneuvered him, and in the future he'll be careful about how he treats you to ensure you you remain an ally, not an enemy.
Ryan Peeden:
in the future he'll be careful about how he treats you
And will be coming up with a carefully thought-out strategy to ensure that you and pesky little Mark atleast think twice before outmaneuvering him in the future. ;P
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
I wouldn't mention anything to any managers in particular, but (and especially if the new hire is fairly inexperienced in comparison) have a chat with the new hire to reassure them that they hadn't been wasting your time & to pretty much ignore the email. If something similar needs to happen in future, it may be wise to let the manager know in advance (in a let-me-know-if-you-don't-want-this-to-happen style email that he may well not even read in time).
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Based purely on this anecdote, I think his manager made a valid observation. From HIS perspective, you are a limited resource and you are using up time of his resource in what may be unrelated to the latter's work. It's entirely possible his manager doesn't really care, but is reacting to a message given him by your manager or upper management. More importantly, this was written to another person, not you. It's really none of your business. In addition, this isn't your "own time"; it's the company's time. My advice: IF this looks like it's NOT going to blow up into a bigger issue, do nothing. Otherwise, go to the other guy's manager and say something like, "I heard you had concerns about the time I spent with X the other day. He was curious about integration and I felt that briefing him would be helpful to him and the company. I apologize for not clearing this with you first."
Joe Woodbury wrote:
More importantly, this was written to another person, not you. It's really none of your business.
Agreed.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
I apologize for not clearing this with you first."
Oh god, I can't do that. I don't participate well in an arbitrary dictatorship where I have to seek permission before taking a shit.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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I believe you've got a lot of good advice here. Apart from that, do you trust your own manager? If you do it could be a good idea to ask for advice as he or she might know how the other manager is wired.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Apart from that, do you trust your own manager?
Mostly. My direct manager (who works under the manager of the other person) definitely goes into "circle the wagons" mode when encountering confrontational issues.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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My reaction would NOT be to write something in a forum somewhere on the internet. But I might be saying to myself, as long as I keep getting payed, I'll continue to do that job for which I recieve that pay. You know the sermon, the one the judge always gives to the pool of prospective jurors that are down to a single room of badge bearers but it's so late in the day that he's got to let them go. "Don't discuss the case with anyone, your kids, your wife, your dog, your mechanic, your butcher, your tailor, the guy down at the local hardware, the cashier at the bodega ..." This is a swearing-in issue.
RedDk wrote:
My reaction would NOT be to write something in a forum somewhere on the internet.
But where else am I going to get good feedback? And if this post is discovered by said people (highly unlikely) I actually really don't care.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
All communications are either an act of love, or a cry for help. His was the latter. As a manager, ignore it and move on. In our world, we have our #1 rule: It's About People. If you violate that rule (by treating people poorly), YOU won't be happy. I had a manager write up an employee who left her cubicle, went to the managers glass office, and took a DOCTORS call about a lab result that needed to be handled in private. She worked with mostly men around her. I think it was perfectly reasonable, everyone said it was a few minutes, and she locked the office back up. Clearly violating rule #1: It's About People. When we forget that... Things end badly!
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Without skipping a beat I would have told him (for all to hear): "I'm never too busy if it means I can help someone else get their job done when I'm also able to do mine". (Other story) When someone "over me" (contracting) blind sided me in a meeting, I told him afterwards not to "blind-side" me again and tell me beforehand what's on the agenda. He showed nothing but respect for me for years after and gave me excellent references. (Two weeks ago I had someone removed which was my condition to do "phase 2"; another contract) Know thy enemy (or friend); and thyself. And timing is (almost) everything.
"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then". ― Blaise Pascal
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We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Marc Clifton wrote:
Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy."
I gotta ask.. is that manager right? Is your time very constrained? Do you love that stuff to the point of being willing to take time out of your busy day to discuss it with coworkers? Have you ever given management the appearance that you've been distracted from your real work, even once, because you were helping others? Maybe the manager is just trying to do good management by letting the new guy know that you're a resource, but one not to be abused, and is doing it in a way that isn't as tactful as we'd all like. That said, like others suggested, letting the manager know that you got good value out of your time interacting with them as well, sounds like the right way to address this.
I live in Oregon, and I'm an engineer.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy."
I gotta ask.. is that manager right? Is your time very constrained? Do you love that stuff to the point of being willing to take time out of your busy day to discuss it with coworkers? Have you ever given management the appearance that you've been distracted from your real work, even once, because you were helping others? Maybe the manager is just trying to do good management by letting the new guy know that you're a resource, but one not to be abused, and is doing it in a way that isn't as tactful as we'd all like. That said, like others suggested, letting the manager know that you got good value out of your time interacting with them as well, sounds like the right way to address this.
I live in Oregon, and I'm an engineer.
patbob wrote:
Maybe the manager is just trying to do good management by letting the new guy know that you're a resource, but one not to be abused, and is doing it in a way that isn't as tactful as we'd all like.
I suspect that is the case.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Do you know his home address?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
We recently hired a few new people, and one of them has considerable experience in the main third party product we are using. Over lunch, said person asked me about how the product is integrated in to our other services, and I volunteered to show him my little corner of the world, which consists mainly of writing middleware libraries that take requests from the third party app, packages the request for consumption by various web services and responds with the results and/or errors. In return, Marc got some really good knowledge about the third party product which he has never formally received an overview/training in, even though he's been there for over a year. His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together (ironically, which when I was stepping through a project with a known bug that I hadn't worked out resulted in figuring out what the bug was), had this to say to the new hire (it's logged in a chat message, which is good): "Marc works only 3 days a week so his time is very constrained and he eats that stuff up [refering to "integrations"] so he'll probably never tell you that he's too busy." Let's make the following assumptions: Marc is a professional with 30+ years experience and can manage his own time. Marc was in a lull (of which there are many) and had some free time. Marc has previously demonstrated his ability to cross departmental silos to the benefit of all teams. Given said manager's direct message to the new hire, what, if anything should Marc do? Would you take this just as a failed attempt by the manager at humor? Would you ignore it, keep your head down, and not do anything like this again, even though the company's "employee conduct" manual expressly has Dilbertesque phrases about team building, communication, etc. Would you write a complaint? Other? Thanks ahead of time, I'm actually really bothered by the manager's comment, so looking for advice.
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
Marc Clifton wrote:
His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together
I hate being micromanaged. If a manager is checking up on staff that frequently then he's the one also wasting Company time, unless there is a real problem with a staff member. Competent and reliable staff do not need heavy handed management and this should be the ultimate goal of any manager. Good and reliable staff just need guidance or direction and freedom to get on with their job. My manager hasn't given me any guidance or direction for months now, as I know better than him on what needs doing and how to do my job. (Probably because I used to do his job, but gave it up because I got sick of being a manager.) If you are working on a project that requires a lot of interaction then the manager should only need to help staff as a team leader and should be concentrating of clearing obstacles (politics or whatever) that impedes their workers efficiency or ability to do there job and get a successful project. Ultimately what this means is the manager should be working for their staff to help them successfully do their jobs and get results, not the other way round. Too often managers forget this and are too concerned with their own ego trips or being anal about how staff should do their jobs and lose focus on what is really important. As for your question. Ignore it, if the manager is really concerned they will raise it again. More likely they will have already forgotten about, as it was probably just a passing comment.
A Fine is a Tax for doing something wrong A Tax is a Fine for doing something good.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
His manager, upon noticing the 2 hours we spent together
I hate being micromanaged. If a manager is checking up on staff that frequently then he's the one also wasting Company time, unless there is a real problem with a staff member. Competent and reliable staff do not need heavy handed management and this should be the ultimate goal of any manager. Good and reliable staff just need guidance or direction and freedom to get on with their job. My manager hasn't given me any guidance or direction for months now, as I know better than him on what needs doing and how to do my job. (Probably because I used to do his job, but gave it up because I got sick of being a manager.) If you are working on a project that requires a lot of interaction then the manager should only need to help staff as a team leader and should be concentrating of clearing obstacles (politics or whatever) that impedes their workers efficiency or ability to do there job and get a successful project. Ultimately what this means is the manager should be working for their staff to help them successfully do their jobs and get results, not the other way round. Too often managers forget this and are too concerned with their own ego trips or being anal about how staff should do their jobs and lose focus on what is really important. As for your question. Ignore it, if the manager is really concerned they will raise it again. More likely they will have already forgotten about, as it was probably just a passing comment.
A Fine is a Tax for doing something wrong A Tax is a Fine for doing something good.
RossMW wrote:
As for your question. Ignore it, if the manager is really concerned they will raise it again. More likely they will have already forgotten about, as it was probably just a passing comment.
Sound advice, though I think this guy records every transgression in a little black book. :rolleyes:
Latest Article - Code Review - What You Can Learn From a Single Line of Code Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802