Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. The Lounge
  3. Debate : Standard v Phillips (Allen, Torx)

Debate : Standard v Phillips (Allen, Torx)

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
question
75 Posts 27 Posters 1 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • B Bruce Patin

    IBM used to outlaw Phillips head screws. There could be many reasons, but Phillips head screws are very easy to strip. Also, there are screw starters for slotted screws, but none that I know of for Phillips. Torx is the only kind I really like. P.S. I'll have to check out the Robertson. I forgot to mention that it is easy to fashion a square head screw driver with a file and almost any piece of metal.

    R Offline
    R Offline
    raddevus
    wrote on last edited by
    #39

    Bruce Patin wrote:

    it is easy to fashion a square head screw driver with a file and almost any piece of metal.

    :thumbsup: That's a really great point.

    W 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • R raddevus

      Here's the question up for debate:

      Debate

      Why would any modern product use a standard (aka flat head) screw, which requires a standard (flat head) screw driver?

      Standard screws are far more difficult to use in a modern era where we have power screw drivers which spin at high RPMs. If you've ever tried this you know that a standard (or slotted screw) will quickly get off balance with each rotation which really creates a challenge. The very least that should be substituted would be the Phillips (+) type. It's much more balanced. I can see using a allen type or Torx or whatever but I just can't understand why slotted would still be used. Why are slotted screws still being produced? In my thinking they should outlaw them to save the sanity anyone who owns a toolbox. :) How many billions $$$ could be saved by such a change? :rolleyes: Counterpoint? Anyone with a counterpoint on why slotted is still valid?

      S Offline
      S Offline
      SeattleC
      wrote on last edited by
      #40

      Slot head screws are easier to take out when you don't have your toolbox with you. You can use the dumb little screwdriver head of your swiss army knife. You can use a nail file. You can use a kitchen knife. You can use a dime. Slot head screws are put there for people who don't spend a lot of time taking things apart.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • R raddevus

        Here's the question up for debate:

        Debate

        Why would any modern product use a standard (aka flat head) screw, which requires a standard (flat head) screw driver?

        Standard screws are far more difficult to use in a modern era where we have power screw drivers which spin at high RPMs. If you've ever tried this you know that a standard (or slotted screw) will quickly get off balance with each rotation which really creates a challenge. The very least that should be substituted would be the Phillips (+) type. It's much more balanced. I can see using a allen type or Torx or whatever but I just can't understand why slotted would still be used. Why are slotted screws still being produced? In my thinking they should outlaw them to save the sanity anyone who owns a toolbox. :) How many billions $$$ could be saved by such a change? :rolleyes: Counterpoint? Anyone with a counterpoint on why slotted is still valid?

        W Offline
        W Offline
        W Balboos GHB
        wrote on last edited by
        #41

        One more note, based upon your "billions $$$ could be saved". A few flat blade screw drivers will fit pretty much anything you find. A little less so with phillps, but somewhat viable. There are hybrid screws, as well, which take both flat blade and phillips. For hex and torx? Another one for each and every size? I think "billions $$$ spent" would be more like it.

        Ravings en masse^

        "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

        "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

        R 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • R raddevus

          Bruce Patin wrote:

          it is easy to fashion a square head screw driver with a file and almost any piece of metal.

          :thumbsup: That's a really great point.

          W Offline
          W Offline
          W Balboos GHB
          wrote on last edited by
          #42

          As long as we've touched the waters of "in a pinch", I needed a small screwdriver to fix my glasses. Not anything around . . . wait . . . a paper clip and a rock (hammer, etc.). Bang bang. Now we have a micro flat-blade screwdriver!

          Ravings en masse^

          "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

          "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

          R 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • R raddevus

            Here's the question up for debate:

            Debate

            Why would any modern product use a standard (aka flat head) screw, which requires a standard (flat head) screw driver?

            Standard screws are far more difficult to use in a modern era where we have power screw drivers which spin at high RPMs. If you've ever tried this you know that a standard (or slotted screw) will quickly get off balance with each rotation which really creates a challenge. The very least that should be substituted would be the Phillips (+) type. It's much more balanced. I can see using a allen type or Torx or whatever but I just can't understand why slotted would still be used. Why are slotted screws still being produced? In my thinking they should outlaw them to save the sanity anyone who owns a toolbox. :) How many billions $$$ could be saved by such a change? :rolleyes: Counterpoint? Anyone with a counterpoint on why slotted is still valid?

            R Offline
            R Offline
            Robert Not The Pirate
            wrote on last edited by
            #43

            You have way to much time on your hands.

            R 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • W W Balboos GHB

              One more note, based upon your "billions $$$ could be saved". A few flat blade screw drivers will fit pretty much anything you find. A little less so with phillps, but somewhat viable. There are hybrid screws, as well, which take both flat blade and phillips. For hex and torx? Another one for each and every size? I think "billions $$$ spent" would be more like it.

              Ravings en masse^

              "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

              "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

              R Offline
              R Offline
              raddevus
              wrote on last edited by
              #44

              W∴ Balboos wrote:

              I think "billions $$$ spent" would be more like it.

              Hmmm....I've created an industry. :rolleyes: Seriously though, I can agree with what you are saying. That's why The World must agree upon one standard immediately and outlaw all other types. :laugh:

              W 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • W W Balboos GHB

                As long as we've touched the waters of "in a pinch", I needed a small screwdriver to fix my glasses. Not anything around . . . wait . . . a paper clip and a rock (hammer, etc.). Bang bang. Now we have a micro flat-blade screwdriver!

                Ravings en masse^

                "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

                "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

                R Offline
                R Offline
                raddevus
                wrote on last edited by
                #45

                W∴ Balboos wrote:

                a paper clip and a rock (hammer, etc.)Bang bang. Now we have a micro flat-blade screwdriver!

                You know what? That's actually one of the best explanations of slotted still being viable. :thumbsup: Very cool.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • R raddevus

                  W∴ Balboos wrote:

                  I think "billions $$$ spent" would be more like it.

                  Hmmm....I've created an industry. :rolleyes: Seriously though, I can agree with what you are saying. That's why The World must agree upon one standard immediately and outlaw all other types. :laugh:

                  W Offline
                  W Offline
                  W Balboos GHB
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #46

                  raddevus wrote:

                  That's why The World must agree upon one standard immediately and outlaw all other types.

                  Step One: "Reeducate those good-for-nothing lefties" who'd want to screw around with the direction in which we turn the screws.

                  Ravings en masse^

                  "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

                  "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

                  R 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • R Robert Not The Pirate

                    You have way to much time on your hands.

                    R Offline
                    R Offline
                    raddevus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #47

                    These things must be considered! :laugh: And, I'd have more if The World would standardize on one screw type. :rolleyes:

                    R 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • W W Balboos GHB

                      raddevus wrote:

                      That's why The World must agree upon one standard immediately and outlaw all other types.

                      Step One: "Reeducate those good-for-nothing lefties" who'd want to screw around with the direction in which we turn the screws.

                      Ravings en masse^

                      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

                      "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

                      R Offline
                      R Offline
                      raddevus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #48

                      W∴ Balboos wrote:

                      who'd want to screw around with the direction in which we turn the screws.

                      Can you imagine...

                      Ridiculous!

                      Lefty tighty, righty loosey

                      :rolleyes: It's righty tighty for a reason! :laugh:

                      W 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • R raddevus

                        W∴ Balboos wrote:

                        who'd want to screw around with the direction in which we turn the screws.

                        Can you imagine...

                        Ridiculous!

                        Lefty tighty, righty loosey

                        :rolleyes: It's righty tighty for a reason! :laugh:

                        W Offline
                        W Offline
                        W Balboos GHB
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #49

                        Righty Tighty - Lefty Lucy ? I always thought that was referring which direction in bed to face when deciding on which new girlfriend you'll . . .

                        Ravings en masse^

                        "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

                        "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • R raddevus

                          Here's the question up for debate:

                          Debate

                          Why would any modern product use a standard (aka flat head) screw, which requires a standard (flat head) screw driver?

                          Standard screws are far more difficult to use in a modern era where we have power screw drivers which spin at high RPMs. If you've ever tried this you know that a standard (or slotted screw) will quickly get off balance with each rotation which really creates a challenge. The very least that should be substituted would be the Phillips (+) type. It's much more balanced. I can see using a allen type or Torx or whatever but I just can't understand why slotted would still be used. Why are slotted screws still being produced? In my thinking they should outlaw them to save the sanity anyone who owns a toolbox. :) How many billions $$$ could be saved by such a change? :rolleyes: Counterpoint? Anyone with a counterpoint on why slotted is still valid?

                          L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Lost User
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #50

                          A better question is, why hasn't everyone adopted Robertson. Superior to both; invented in Canada; apparently "banned" in the US; something to do with "not invented in the US" I think.

                          "(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then". ― Blaise Pascal

                          H A 2 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • R raddevus

                            Here's the question up for debate:

                            Debate

                            Why would any modern product use a standard (aka flat head) screw, which requires a standard (flat head) screw driver?

                            Standard screws are far more difficult to use in a modern era where we have power screw drivers which spin at high RPMs. If you've ever tried this you know that a standard (or slotted screw) will quickly get off balance with each rotation which really creates a challenge. The very least that should be substituted would be the Phillips (+) type. It's much more balanced. I can see using a allen type or Torx or whatever but I just can't understand why slotted would still be used. Why are slotted screws still being produced? In my thinking they should outlaw them to save the sanity anyone who owns a toolbox. :) How many billions $$$ could be saved by such a change? :rolleyes: Counterpoint? Anyone with a counterpoint on why slotted is still valid?

                            M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Member 12150993
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #51

                            Notice that all the screws in a mechanical wristwatch are slotted. There is a reason for this. The original Phillips driver was designed for building aluminum aircraft. It was designed to cam out before the material being screwed into was damaged. Later cross-drive screws, e.g., frearson, were mostly not designed to cam out. As others have said, with cross-drive screw heads the bit is self-centering. It isn't with slotted screw heads, but the slot is easily restored. If you ruin a cross drive head you need a screw extractor. All the above are much inferior to Torx.

                            R A 2 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • R raddevus

                              These things must be considered! :laugh: And, I'd have more if The World would standardize on one screw type. :rolleyes:

                              R Offline
                              R Offline
                              Robert Not The Pirate
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #52

                              A plain-old bread-knife can replace a flathead or slotted screwdriver in a pinch, therefore making as the standard, in my opinion.

                              R 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • R raddevus

                                OriginalGriff wrote:

                                Do you mean "Phillips", or "Posidrive"?

                                I knew whatever I called phillips and slotted that someone would mention some other name. I did my best to look it up but it seems a lot of people refer to them as phillips. This is a good article / video: Quick Tip: Know Your Screwdrivers (Hint: It's Not a "Flathead!") | Make:[^]

                                T Offline
                                T Offline
                                the Kris
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #53

                                Pozidriv is not just another name, it is a very different head compared to Phillips. You cannot use a Pozidriv bit on a Phillips head and a Phillips bit on a Pozidriv screw very easily starts stripping. Sometimes wikipedia is the way to go... List of screw drives - Wikipedia[^]

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • R raddevus

                                  Here's the question up for debate:

                                  Debate

                                  Why would any modern product use a standard (aka flat head) screw, which requires a standard (flat head) screw driver?

                                  Standard screws are far more difficult to use in a modern era where we have power screw drivers which spin at high RPMs. If you've ever tried this you know that a standard (or slotted screw) will quickly get off balance with each rotation which really creates a challenge. The very least that should be substituted would be the Phillips (+) type. It's much more balanced. I can see using a allen type or Torx or whatever but I just can't understand why slotted would still be used. Why are slotted screws still being produced? In my thinking they should outlaw them to save the sanity anyone who owns a toolbox. :) How many billions $$$ could be saved by such a change? :rolleyes: Counterpoint? Anyone with a counterpoint on why slotted is still valid?

                                  G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  Greg Lovekamp
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #54

                                  My main thought is that for every other type of screw, you need EXACTLY the correct size of screwdriver. So, for a general life, you need 6-8 sizes of Phillips, 8-10 of Torx, 4-6 of Robertson, but you can by with about three flat blade screwdrivers (small, medium, large). Specifically, in electronics, NO, I can think of no reason for a standard screw.

                                  R 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Member 12150993

                                    Notice that all the screws in a mechanical wristwatch are slotted. There is a reason for this. The original Phillips driver was designed for building aluminum aircraft. It was designed to cam out before the material being screwed into was damaged. Later cross-drive screws, e.g., frearson, were mostly not designed to cam out. As others have said, with cross-drive screw heads the bit is self-centering. It isn't with slotted screw heads, but the slot is easily restored. If you ruin a cross drive head you need a screw extractor. All the above are much inferior to Torx.

                                    R Offline
                                    R Offline
                                    raddevus
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #55

                                    Fantastic explanation. Now the common camming problem actually makes sense. That's why it happens so much-- because it's engineered to happen. Thanks for the enlightenment. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • G Greg Lovekamp

                                      My main thought is that for every other type of screw, you need EXACTLY the correct size of screwdriver. So, for a general life, you need 6-8 sizes of Phillips, 8-10 of Torx, 4-6 of Robertson, but you can by with about three flat blade screwdrivers (small, medium, large). Specifically, in electronics, NO, I can think of no reason for a standard screw.

                                      R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      raddevus
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #56

                                      Sizing issue is another great point. Thanks :thumbsup:

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • R raddevus

                                        Here's the question up for debate:

                                        Debate

                                        Why would any modern product use a standard (aka flat head) screw, which requires a standard (flat head) screw driver?

                                        Standard screws are far more difficult to use in a modern era where we have power screw drivers which spin at high RPMs. If you've ever tried this you know that a standard (or slotted screw) will quickly get off balance with each rotation which really creates a challenge. The very least that should be substituted would be the Phillips (+) type. It's much more balanced. I can see using a allen type or Torx or whatever but I just can't understand why slotted would still be used. Why are slotted screws still being produced? In my thinking they should outlaw them to save the sanity anyone who owns a toolbox. :) How many billions $$$ could be saved by such a change? :rolleyes: Counterpoint? Anyone with a counterpoint on why slotted is still valid?

                                        D Offline
                                        D Offline
                                        digidave
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #57

                                        We use slotted screws on some products because it is easier to remove contamination & debris in the field.

                                        R 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • R Robert Not The Pirate

                                          A plain-old bread-knife can replace a flathead or slotted screwdriver in a pinch, therefore making as the standard, in my opinion.

                                          R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          raddevus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #58

                                          Robert/Not The Pirate wrote:

                                          plain-old bread-knife can replace a flathead or slotted screwdriver in a pinch,

                                          That does seem to be the best argument for it. Also people are saying it is far easier to fix a slotted head on a stripped screw. :thumbsup:

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups