How to find a Windows app developer?

[Kirk Wood]

Your first line is why I wouldn't consider it even though I could do what you need. Here is how I see it: 1) One doesn't need five years to understand WPF and MVVM, a couple is plenty for most things. And if your stuff is so esoteric as to need that many specifically in that area I would take a pass unless the esoteric area really appealed to me. 2) Desktop programming is on the decline. Until I am nearing retirement I would prefer to avoid closing technologies. 3) The mention of Windows Forms further makes it look like dead end technology. So I would recommend that you instead look for five years experience in the C# with a solid background in XAML. And, be sure to mention that your company is looking to move toward expanding and that the developer won't be stuck with this as long as she/he stays with your company.

[Sharp Ninja]

GuyThiebaut wrote:

Having come from a background of winforms development I am probably one of those who might be in demand at some point. That said - any decent web developer(someone experienced in MVC, C# SQL) should have little difficulty developing on a non web system - the thing is finding people willing to do that work is probably not going to be easy ,as the future seems to have been web development for the past 10 years and more.

Well, I somewhat agree with this point. Web developers who didn't start with WROX books or Google searches shouldn't have a problem, but those that are less skilled can still succeed with UWP (and even WPF) because the programming model is basically the same, and XAML is a natural transition for HTML developers. The biggest hurdle with going from web to UWP is having to wrap your brain around styling XAML. But once you have the concepts grasped, it's much more powerful than CSS and JavaScript.

[Sharp Ninja]

Tomaž Štih wrote:

p.s. Don't use web developers. They have radically different mindset, they work with gazillion of frameworks, don't know strong typing, storyboard their life, and inject'n'pattern everything that moves. That's all very nice, and cool too, but you don't use a wrench to cut hair. And beware of "standard control" freaks. They don't innovate and their software looks like living DevExpress mutant from the 90ties, with 20 switchable fluorescent control skins that scare the sh*t out of you, and without any catchy innovative approach that makes your app stand out. You'll recognize them by bloated data-modeling and raping you with screen wireframes.

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more. WPF lends itself well to multi-tiered architecture, but UWP is even better. As a matter of fact, following Microsoft's development guidelines for UWP provides a VERY rich and consistent user interface paradigm (something that iOS, but no so much Android thrives upon) which will become very natural in the future, especially since the Win32 versions of Office are about to become extinct. Web development of SPA and ASP.Net MVC is not much different than UWP development. With UWP now being run from DotNet Core, you can even use that back end and put it in the app and have a distributed app that is self contained and can work offline, simply syncing with servers as networking becomes available. You CANNOT do that easily with Web, and hardly anybody does it with mobile. UWP is far more powerful than any other framework out there. Also, with WebAssembly starting to take off, the days of Javascript/Bootstrap/Angular hell are numbered, and those same skills will be directly applicable to UWP as much a WebAssembly. And those "dinosaur" C++ developers have a VERY good platform with UWP to continue their careers as UWP has a very good support for COM objects interacting with the new Windows API from C++.

[Sharp Ninja]

Stable Genius wrote:

I don't know about windows, I work on iOS and Android apps, but one day out of sheer curiosity, I have tried to replicate an HTML5/CSS3/JavaScript(with addons) UI with native elements. Result: disaster, the HTML5/CSS3/Javascript combination happens to be the best and fastest UI platform.

iOS and Android apps are not as fully baked as UWP is. Neither uses XAML (unless you are using Xamarin Forms) and that's a BIG disadvantage for them. The AXML paradigm for Android is horrible. XAML is much more natural for web developers. The biggest hurdle is wrapping your brain around styling with XAML, but once you get it, CSS sucks. Now, if someone doesn't WANT to learn a typed language such as C# or C++, then that's not a fault of the platform, but of the developer. Personally, I HATE Javascript development, but I do it when I have to.

[dandy72]

Sharp Ninja wrote:

Microsoft has made it very clear that Win32 is an endangered species

Microsoft also thought it would all be replaced by Metro apps by now. And UWP is little more than the natural progression of that. Remind me, how's the Windows Store doing? Yeah, the writing may be on the wall for Win32 apps, but nobody's impressed with the alternative MS is proposing.

[dandy72]

Some people use IM[NS]HO (or IM[NSH]O), which arguably might make it a little more recognizable... I don't know. Myself, I tend to avoid abbreviations except perhaps for things that have been around for years.

[obermd]

Windows Desktop Universal Windows Platform Xamarin You're looking for a mobile developer on two platforms who also knows the Win32/64 API. You're looking for three different detailed skill sets.

[Sharp Ninja]

The only people who aren't impressed with UWP have never used it, and the Windows Store has many, many, many quality apps in it.

[Lost User]

I've been saying that's where the money is ... but they laughed. One platform; multiple devices. (It actually works).

"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then". ― Blaise Pascal

[Peter Moore Chicago]

Did you not see the word "OR"?

[Daniel R Przybylski]

I used to consider myself one, but there are never any opportunities, so I've had to go web. What's funny is your comment about applicants no reading the job requirements. Because I don't think that I've met a recruiter who has read my resume before calling or emailing.

[dandy72]

Sharp Ninja wrote:

the Windows Store has many, many, many quality apps in it

That's a well-kept secret if I've ever heard one. Every time the Windows Store is brought up in an article, invariably, even amongst life-long Windows tech journalists, it's to deride it.

[Sharp Ninja]

To deride it for what? Publishing to it is harder than for Android. Why? Microsoft actually has security and quality standards. Google allows ANYTHING that compiles to be posted to Google Play Store. Sure, it may get taken down later when they find the porn or cryptocurrency malware, but Google encourage crap apps to go there to bolster the numbers.

[dandy72]

Sharp Ninja wrote:

To deride it for what?

Ok, clearly, you're either trolling or in denial. I'm out. Enjoy the Kool-Aid.

[jschell]

Daniel Pfeffer wrote:

If the tools are adequate for the task at hand, why change them?

Because of course that is simplistic. I did work at a company sometime ago where a contract required an update to an app running on Windows 3.1 written in Visual C++ 1.52. The only way we succeeded was because I am a technology packrat and so I had the CDs (not DVDs) with that environment. I still do. The company did not and no one else at the company did either. And I threw out the 3.5 inch disks with Borland C++ on it quite some time ago so no going back on that one. Same is true for something like Java 6. Apps still exist but the VM is no longer supported. So one risks leaving security holes open unless one wants to patch them in house. Even things like timezone changes would need to be patched in house. Beyond that one must also be able to hire someone to keep maintaining it because those with experience either move on, retire or even die. I spent years with C but even quite a while ago I found going back to it very difficult. So difficult that my solution actually was pseudo OO rather than structured because I found it impossible to think in structured terms. Nothing wrong with the application that I was working on, but the skills to use it did not exist (I was the one most qualified to work on it by far.)

[jschell]

You might want to look at restructuring it with 'required' and 'desired'. But even so I would expect a long timeline on a hire and if that isn't going to work then you might want to look for someone that is enthusiastic and with a demonstrated ability to learn.

[Sharp Ninja]

It was an honest question. I have worked with Windows Store/UWP apps since Windows 8.1. I've followed the progression of the APIs, the changes to permissions in the various versions and ultimately the integration with .Net Standard 2, which gives you a multitude more programming cases and designs to fit those cases than in previous versions. What gets me is the assertions that if I like something that someone else doesn't then I must be . Or I could take the easy route and nod in agreement and then take a shower.

[dandy72]

Ok, here's the thing: I'm a life-long Windows software developer. Going back to DOS in fact. Some would call me a fanboi. While I'd *love* to say the future is UWP, even the Microsoft evangelists will readily admit that adoption is nowhere near to what they'd like it to be. You've got to ask yourself, why is that. There's probably a bit of a catch-22 in the answer. I just find it very uninspiring. I find UIs today to be a serious step back, all in the name of "keeping things simple". However - and this is all my own opinion - based on what've seen, simplicity apparently comes at the cost of functionality, or (if you're lucky) the equivalent functionality requires more clicks to get the same thing done. I'm just not a fan of what's being proposed as the "desktop replacement".

[Daniel Pfeffer]

If you intend to accept contracts requiring maintenance of legacy software, you naturally must keep the necessary tools and runtime environments. No argument there. My original point was directed more at new development. I do not believe that using the latest (and supposedly greatest) framework is always necessary or desirable. If an older framework is still supported by the tool chain, and it meets the requirements - there is no benefit to writing the application using the latest buzzword technology.

Ad astra - both ways!

[Leng Vang]

If this is true that it is a temp, no decent experienced developers would ever apply. Those that can't find work anywhere would apply, but they are not going to qualify for the job.