Visual Basic.NET Exceeded C# Popularity in TIOBE in July 2018
-
Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
Thank you for reinforcing my belief that TIOBE INDEX doesn't mean squat all.
-
georani wrote:
I Think VB.NET is more readable and fun.
And I am sure there are many more who agree. But if you learned C# first then you would (as I do) hold the complete opposite view. And as in all such surveys, the actual results are generally totally meaningless and useless.
-
Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
You are a brave soul, starting a flame war here where everybody knows that VB in any form is despised. Those who practice this black art should be ridiculed and burned at the stake! :laugh: However, I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is best. Looking at the results, I'd guess that these are the languages that are most popular for CS students. That said, I actually agree the VB.NET is a great programming language, but as you've seen, not that well regarded here at CP albeit for some dubious reasons.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
-
Now write the VB equivalent of this C#
public class MyClass1
{
public int Mynumber {get; private set;} = 3;
}Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
And VB doesn't? Yes it does have
goto- because there are occasions when you need it. But outside a student's homework submitted to a lazy teacher I've not seen - let alone used -gotoonce in the "real world". Face it: VB is based on a language designed for people who can't code, don't want to code, and have no interest in quality. It still has those early days buried deep in it's fabric: the On Error rubbish, the weak typing, the lack of need to declare anything. Those aren't strengths, they are contributing factors to poor maintainability which are designed right into the language. That's why C# is the way it is: it encourages the production of more robust and understandable code. Yes, you can produce good code in VB - but you have to treat it more like C# to do it and do all the work yourself!Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Quote:
Face it: VB is based on a language designed for people who can't code, don't want to code, and have no interest in quality. It still has those early days buried deep in it's fabric: the On Error rubbish, the weak typing, the lack of need to declare anything.
False assertion, you can produce bad or good code in VB.NET or C #, the choice is yours.
Quote:
the weak typing, the lack of need to declare anything.
False assertion, you just use
Option Strict On
at start of your VB.NET code. Study more, please, did you heard about Python?
-
Now write the VB equivalent of this C#
public class MyClass1
{
public int Mynumber {get; private set;} = 3;
}Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Done:
Public Class MyClass1 Private \_Mynumber As Integer = 3 Public Property Mynumber() As Integer Get Return \_Mynumber End Get Private Set(value As Integer) \_Mynumber = value End Set End Property End ClassThis C# equivalent:
public class MyClass1
{
public int Mynumber {get; private set;} = 3;
}It's shorter, but not fun or more readable.
-
You are a brave soul, starting a flame war here where everybody knows that VB in any form is despised. Those who practice this black art should be ridiculed and burned at the stake! :laugh: However, I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is best. Looking at the results, I'd guess that these are the languages that are most popular for CS students. That said, I actually agree the VB.NET is a great programming language, but as you've seen, not that well regarded here at CP albeit for some dubious reasons.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
-
Done:
Public Class MyClass1 Private \_Mynumber As Integer = 3 Public Property Mynumber() As Integer Get Return \_Mynumber End Get Private Set(value As Integer) \_Mynumber = value End Set End Property End ClassThis C# equivalent:
public class MyClass1
{
public int Mynumber {get; private set;} = 3;
}It's shorter, but not fun or more readable.
georani wrote:
not fun or more readable.
Who are you trying to kid? Yourself? :laugh:
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
georani wrote:
so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it.
C# is a cleaned up version of VB. "Fun" you say. I say there's a lot of hobbyists. Aaaw, the fun of cleaning up after them - so much, I regularly refuse to :thumbsup:
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Quote:
C# is a cleaned up version of VB.
No, it is not, C# comes from The Delphi creator Anders Hejlsberg (Click to see Wikipedia article)
Quote:
"Fun" you say. I say there's a lot of hobbyists.
There are a lot of commercial and industrial software made with VB.NET
-
Quote:
I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is the best.
Check that link again ant the title also, it is not about which is best, it is about popularity.
I know how to read. :) I was agreeing with you.
georani wrote:
I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is best.
georani wrote:
Check that link again ant the title also, it is not about which is best, it is about popularity.
You see how we kinda said the same thing there?
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
-
georani wrote:
not fun or more readable.
Who are you trying to kid? Yourself? :laugh:
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Quote:
Who are you trying to kid? Yourself?
I Think this: This code:
Public Property Mynumber() As Integer
Get
Return _Mynumber
End Get
Private Set(value As Integer)
_Mynumber = value
End Set
End PropertyIs more readable and more safe than this shorter and equivalent C# code:
public int Mynumber {get; private set;} = 3;
If you read fast, you can make mistakes when reading this C# code, and anyone can understand VB version, even non programmers, but if you are not a C# programmer what the hell is "{get; private set;} = 3"?
-
Quote:
C# is a cleaned up version of VB.
No, it is not, C# comes from The Delphi creator Anders Hejlsberg (Click to see Wikipedia article)
Quote:
"Fun" you say. I say there's a lot of hobbyists.
There are a lot of commercial and industrial software made with VB.NET
georani wrote:
No, it is not, C# comes from The Delphi creator Anders Hejlsberg (Click to see Wikipedia article)
Which could be translated by search and replace into VB.NET; built on the newer VB runtime. Instead of running P-code, we now have the .NET runtime.
georani wrote:
There are a lot of commercial and industrial software made with VB.NET
Yes, by "professional beginners" :D
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
-
georani wrote:
No, it is not, C# comes from The Delphi creator Anders Hejlsberg (Click to see Wikipedia article)
Which could be translated by search and replace into VB.NET; built on the newer VB runtime. Instead of running P-code, we now have the .NET runtime.
georani wrote:
There are a lot of commercial and industrial software made with VB.NET
Yes, by "professional beginners" :D
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
Quote:
Which could be translated by search and replace into VB.NET; built on the newer VB runtime. Instead of running P-code, we now have the .NET runtime.
False! False assertion, study more, do some research, try Wikipedia. VB is an old language, VB.NET is another and newer language completely different, you cannot compile OLD VB code to .NET, but you can easily convert VB.NET code to C# code or vice versa, they have similar structure.
-
Quote:
Who are you trying to kid? Yourself?
I Think this: This code:
Public Property Mynumber() As Integer
Get
Return _Mynumber
End Get
Private Set(value As Integer)
_Mynumber = value
End Set
End PropertyIs more readable and more safe than this shorter and equivalent C# code:
public int Mynumber {get; private set;} = 3;
If you read fast, you can make mistakes when reading this C# code, and anyone can understand VB version, even non programmers, but if you are not a C# programmer what the hell is "{get; private set;} = 3"?
You're getting pretty desperate now...
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
-
Quote:
I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is the best.
Check that link again ant the title also, it is not about which is best, it is about popularity.
According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query, NOT THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE. They go through a bunch of search engines and type
+"_language_ programming"into the engine, then grab the "number of results returned". That is an ARBITRARY thing to search for. For example, on Google.com, the following results are turned:+"C# programming" ~ 7,250,000 results +"VB.NET programming" ~ 228,000 results +"C#" ~111,000,000 results +"VB.NET" ~ 24,800,000 resultsThe number of hits returned is just a number of pages that mention the search terms. That's all. The pages can be anything, including the documentation from MSDN, forum post questions, answers, complaints, "do my homework for me", resumes, job postings, ... ANYTHING. It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
You are a brave soul, starting a flame war here where everybody knows that VB in any form is despised. Those who practice this black art should be ridiculed and burned at the stake! :laugh: However, I did take the time to check the link and see that the study and results make no claim about which language is best. Looking at the results, I'd guess that these are the languages that are most popular for CS students. That said, I actually agree the VB.NET is a great programming language, but as you've seen, not that well regarded here at CP albeit for some dubious reasons.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
kmoorevs wrote:
albeit for some dubious reasons.
You mean to say it's dubious that it's redundant?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
-
According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query, NOT THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE. They go through a bunch of search engines and type
+"_language_ programming"into the engine, then grab the "number of results returned". That is an ARBITRARY thing to search for. For example, on Google.com, the following results are turned:+"C# programming" ~ 7,250,000 results +"VB.NET programming" ~ 228,000 results +"C#" ~111,000,000 results +"VB.NET" ~ 24,800,000 resultsThe number of hits returned is just a number of pages that mention the search terms. That's all. The pages can be anything, including the documentation from MSDN, forum post questions, answers, complaints, "do my homework for me", resumes, job postings, ... ANYTHING. It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave KreskowiakQuote:
According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query,
25 Search Engines, click to see: TIOBE Programming Community Index Definition
Quote:
It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
So, read this excerpt from this page: Tiobe Index - Click To See
Quote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written. The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system.
-
kmoorevs wrote:
albeit for some dubious reasons.
You mean to say it's dubious that it's redundant?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
Is this rhetorical? [Edit] Actually, I meant dubious as in questionable. For instance by the responses in this thread I should avoid VB.NET for these reasons: 0: It's possible to throw in the old 'On Error Resume Next'. :laugh: Not that I have to, but OK. 1: It's commonly used by hobbyists/beginners. 2: Someone else wrote some crappy code with it. 3: The cool kids don't use it. It's not about being cool, it's about being productive/generating $. Thanks to Dave K. for doing his own testing which clearly dispute the OP's claim as it seems the survey results are 'dubious'. I had a feeling when this thread showed up yesterday what it would turn into...at least it stirred things up a little for the weekend! :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
-
Quote:
According to TIOBE's own methodology description, it's about the number of hits returned by a very specific search query,
25 Search Engines, click to see: TIOBE Programming Community Index Definition
Quote:
It is is NO WAY a representation of the "use popularity" of the languages, only their mentions in web pages.
So, read this excerpt from this page: Tiobe Index - Click To See
Quote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written. The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system.
georani wrote:
The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages.
No, it's not. It's a ranking of the popularity of their search terms in web pages, NOT IN THE ACTUAL USE OF THE LANGUAGE NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT IT. Their methodology DIRECTLY contradicts the statement they made about the results. Why??? Because you can go and do the searches yourself, come up with the raw data yourself, and THEN SKIP THE PART WHERE THEY MANUALLY ASSIGN ARBITRARY WEIGHTS TO THE hit() RESULTS. The raw data numbers alone will tell you a verify different story. You want a better indicator of what's in use? Go through the repositories on GitHub and compile a list of the languages used by every project. The results will be very different from what TIOBE is showing you.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak -
Visual Basic.NET is a great programming language, so powerful as C#, but more fun and readable to program with it. So finally after so many years VB.NET has surpassed C# in TIOBE Index (July 2018) See Picture Here (July 2018) www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
Oops, stumbled accidentally into Soapbox...no...wait a minute...where am I? Apparently, according to this list, anything vaguely related to IT is a programming language. I would like to add DCL to the list. Its been a few decades, but I'm certain its poised for a comeback :) Seriously, languages are simply tools. Any tool works fine. At the moment, I'm busy sawing a board with a screwdriver...later, I'll hammer nails with a saw :)
