No Initiative. :(
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I've been trying for three months to get my new co-workers excited about doing new development in the form of a rewrite of our web app suite (currently ASP.Net with jquery) to ASP.NET MVC5. All I've gotten in return is the equivalent of, "Great! But it will be a lot of work, so lets not". Yesterday, I mentioned to the PM that I was working on a rewrite at home because we don't have the time/desire to do it at work, and you'd think I was trying to hack the freakin Pentagon. I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Did you take source code home or just start from scratch? Also, does the contract specify what technologies the application is to be built from? If so, that may be a stumbling block until contract renewal time anyway. Wait a second, didn't this new assignment mean you were the tech lead?
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I'm not changing things in the actual code base. I'm simply trying to come up with a MVC version of the apps. Nothign special or more ground-breaking than reloacting some of the elements to clean up the 90's era design.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013When we announced that the new version of our product will be fully browser based and will use angular, some asked if they will have back the COBOL UI/UX now? (We stopped supporting that version like 20 years ago)
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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My TWO previous private companies were exactly the same.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
What I find ironic is that while everybody agrees that a redsesign/rewrite would be a good thing, they don't want to commit to it, and eventually, the software becomes so outdated and im[possible to maintain that it goes "EOL", and everybody blames the programmers for not "taking the initiative to do a rewrite (that management refused to allow in the first place.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
I've been trying for three months to get my new co-workers excited about doing new development in the form of a rewrite of our web app suite (currently ASP.Net with jquery) to ASP.NET MVC5. All I've gotten in return is the equivalent of, "Great! But it will be a lot of work, so lets not". Yesterday, I mentioned to the PM that I was working on a rewrite at home because we don't have the time/desire to do it at work, and you'd think I was trying to hack the freakin Pentagon. I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Well, most of today's developers don't actually want to develop anything at all -- they want others to do the development and then glue the pieces together-- so guys like us who actually enjoy development seem strange to them. At my current place, I'm tolerated to some extent because they recognize that there are times when we must develop something custom. Yet there is an edict from on high favoring "buy vs build". (Yuck, no way to run a railroad.) They also prefer a dangerously low Baskets:Eggs ratio, but that's another story. One time my boss actually said something about "innovation in moderation". :sigh:
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CodeWraith wrote:
play against your bosses and THE TEAM.
Even when THE TEAM is just you because of two people and a coordinator the coordinator manges to forget to state his role to the newcomer... for three months, and never coordinated a finger lift in that time and the other team member is a loose cannon who modifies the code written by others in order to make it understandable only by him to keep the absolute control over the project.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
THE TEAM is a justification for anything. It does not even have to exist.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I'm not changing things in the actual code base. I'm simply trying to come up with a MVC version of the apps. Nothign special or more ground-breaking than reloacting some of the elements to clean up the 90's era design.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013The problem is that even best intentions can be made to appear like high treason if it suits some 'sunshine'.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I've been trying for three months to get my new co-workers excited about doing new development in the form of a rewrite of our web app suite (currently ASP.Net with jquery) to ASP.NET MVC5. All I've gotten in return is the equivalent of, "Great! But it will be a lot of work, so lets not". Yesterday, I mentioned to the PM that I was working on a rewrite at home because we don't have the time/desire to do it at work, and you'd think I was trying to hack the freakin Pentagon. I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's mind
Reminds me of working for the ministry of defence. Dull, utterly dull. No zing, no 'go for it' mentality.
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Well, most of today's developers don't actually want to develop anything at all -- they want others to do the development and then glue the pieces together-- so guys like us who actually enjoy development seem strange to them. At my current place, I'm tolerated to some extent because they recognize that there are times when we must develop something custom. Yet there is an edict from on high favoring "buy vs build". (Yuck, no way to run a railroad.) They also prefer a dangerously low Baskets:Eggs ratio, but that's another story. One time my boss actually said something about "innovation in moderation". :sigh:
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
they want others to do the development and then glue the pieces together
Have you visited QA recently? Some of them want others to glue the pieces together for them too. And provide the glue. :doh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Government == misery - on every level known to human kind.
Government = lack of freedom. Lack of freedom = misery, bondage, enslavement.
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I've been trying for three months to get my new co-workers excited about doing new development in the form of a rewrite of our web app suite (currently ASP.Net with jquery) to ASP.NET MVC5. All I've gotten in return is the equivalent of, "Great! But it will be a lot of work, so lets not". Yesterday, I mentioned to the PM that I was working on a rewrite at home because we don't have the time/desire to do it at work, and you'd think I was trying to hack the freakin Pentagon. I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Years ago I worked for the railroad and the whole shop was writing code in C. I taught classes, wrote a large class library and ended up writing a huge piece of code in C++ but do you think I could draw them away from C? No, I gave up!
Got my site back up after my time in the woods! JaxCoder.com
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I've been trying for three months to get my new co-workers excited about doing new development in the form of a rewrite of our web app suite (currently ASP.Net with jquery) to ASP.NET MVC5. All I've gotten in return is the equivalent of, "Great! But it will be a lot of work, so lets not". Yesterday, I mentioned to the PM that I was working on a rewrite at home because we don't have the time/desire to do it at work, and you'd think I was trying to hack the freakin Pentagon. I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013It works like this (public and private sectors alike): Long ago we spent an absolute fortune on something that was poorly conceived and planned. It went way over budget and never really did the job properly. We had years of back and forth between development and UAT and thousands and thousands of hours were wasted. Now, you're telling us that it could have been done much more simply and effectively without a life-time of associated technical debt. We'd like to believe you (and you may well be right!) but the pilchard who worked on the previous system told us exactly the same things back in the day and now we're never going to trust a developer again. Ever. Sorry about that, now can you just add a little more string and sellotape to get the existing pile of garbage to do one extra little thing, please?
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
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I've been trying for three months to get my new co-workers excited about doing new development in the form of a rewrite of our web app suite (currently ASP.Net with jquery) to ASP.NET MVC5. All I've gotten in return is the equivalent of, "Great! But it will be a lot of work, so lets not". Yesterday, I mentioned to the PM that I was working on a rewrite at home because we don't have the time/desire to do it at work, and you'd think I was trying to hack the freakin Pentagon. I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I deal with the same thing although not at a Federal level, so I completely empathize with your situation. I've got a lot of thoughts on the subject but would rather not have them discovered by my current employer. :sigh: The good thing about it is that you are almost guaranteed that you will never be let go. We've got contractors who have been here 20+ years. From my point of view that isn't a contract, that is an employee.
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THE TEAM is a justification for anything. It does not even have to exist.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
THE TEAM is a lie. Luckily I am now working in a Team, capital T. A refreshing change after 7 years of mostly solo work.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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What I find ironic is that while everybody agrees that a redsesign/rewrite would be a good thing, they don't want to commit to it, and eventually, the software becomes so outdated and im[possible to maintain that it goes "EOL", and everybody blames the programmers for not "taking the initiative to do a rewrite (that management refused to allow in the first place.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's mind
Reminds me of working for the ministry of defence. Dull, utterly dull. No zing, no 'go for it' mentality.
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Years ago I worked for the railroad and the whole shop was writing code in C. I taught classes, wrote a large class library and ended up writing a huge piece of code in C++ but do you think I could draw them away from C? No, I gave up!
Got my site back up after my time in the woods! JaxCoder.com
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Everybody also agrees that World Peace would be a good thing but...
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
world peace isn't practical, but web site modernization is. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Me, Industrial sector, VB6, C++. Same story.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
Amazing how resistant humans are to change.
Got my site back up after my time in the woods! JaxCoder.com
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world peace isn't practical, but web site modernization is. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
but web site modernization is
You don't stroll in Q&A often, don't you? ;P
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Did you take source code home or just start from scratch? Also, does the contract specify what technologies the application is to be built from? If so, that may be a stumbling block until contract renewal time anyway. Wait a second, didn't this new assignment mean you were the tech lead?
I took some screen shots of the current app for layout reference and menu contents, but that's all. My new version has four user-selectable "themes" (selection is stored in the database): 0) Dark with some layout changes 1) Steel/slate blue with the same layout changes (the Air Force likes blue stuff) 2) Lite using the same colors as the original layout, but with same element layout changes as in the dark theme 3) The original layout with no changes - looks almost identical to the original site (has some spacing differences associated with using bootstrap/telerik that I'm going to try to resolve). This only required a couple of different partial views. The layout changes mentioned above include relocation of some of the elements to reclaim vertical screen space, and remove unnecessary text from the screen during normal use. The site will also be mobile aware, but since our minimum width is 1024px (because iPad, and we won't be supporting phone screen sizes), I'm not sure if that's a real selling point. I also have a second project that combines all of the apps in the suite into a single app, and uses areas for segregation of app-specific concerns. This will reduce the overall footprint on the server (because there will be only one copy of things like the Telerik library), and should make deployment easier besides. It also has the same theming stuff in it. I'm pretty close to giving a demonstration, but now I don't know if it's even going to be worth my time. And that's a cryin' f*ckin' shame. The contract does not specify the stack we use. Yes, I'm the lead, and I was told I could redesign it if I felt the need. I feel the need. The main problem is that I feel like the rest of the apps have to come along for the ride, if for no other reason than to have everything look/act the same. THAT is the part that's going to be the hard sell.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
