The Concept of the human Soul is a religious concept, which has no basis in fact, and does not exist
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Urban Cricket wrote:
the program requires intelligent design.
I don't think it's hard to find evidence to the contrary
such as?
Bram van Kampen
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Well Richard, Did you ever read the books by Richard Dawkins, in particlar "The Blind Watchmaker". Regards,
Bram van Kampen
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The concept of a soul is not just religious based. Many cultures and schools of thought look at the soul more as a person's life force. This is why AI can never be fully realized; it is missing the "life force" component. To be clear here, you don't "know" anything. I don't "know" anything either. None of us do. We all have beliefs and opinions, but none of us "know" what happens to us when we die, other than the fact that our body rots, decays, and eventually disappears. Where does that life force go? Some believe (not know) that it goes back into the overall energy of the universe, or heaven, or hell. Who knows, really?
Ido!
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist.
What a grim look on life. :thumbsdown: :sigh:
Bram van Kampen wrote:
it has to do with Knowing.
And I know that there is more after this life.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Noope This is an extremely good and favourable look on life. At least I have not to be afraid anymore of the hell and damnation promised by our pastors and parents. It is a great relief to know that they were all just spinning abject nonsense at the time. Gods simply do not exist.
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
These sound a hell of a lot like articles of faith to me, making you just another religious nut-job that refuses to embrace science. The distinction between faith and science is that science is, by definition, falsifiable. Faith, however, is "Knowing".
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Well Hanlon's razor These are articles of No Faith! I believe in Humanism, and absolutely disbelieves in God)(s), I am a "Card Carrying Atheist!" You got my quotes, but somehow arrived at the wrong conclusion. I totally embrace science! You totally got the wrong end of the stick. I try to embrace science, to take God out of the equation Step 1: My first statement was that the human brain comprises a computer, the precise nature and way of operation is not well understood, That does not imply that is was designed by a God Step 2: My second statement was that the entire experience of existence, as an individual human being, is something programed in by learning at early age Step 3. Young children can be made to believe in anything. My Parents made me believe in Santa Claus in Holland, until I was about 10. They also made me believe at that time in an all Powerful God. Step 4. I consider that whole concept of religion and afterlife, utter and total nonsense!
Bram van Kampen
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Urban Cricket wrote:
science doesn't have all the answers at the moment
The purpose of the scientific method is not to have all the answers but merely to prove or disprove a hypothesis. Because of this science can only be performed on a hypothesis which is able to be disproved which is why science does not explore the question of the 'soul', that question is really is more the realm of philosophy.
Urban Cricket wrote:
Out confidence in it is a bit exaggerated
I agree because many people and particularly many politicians really do not understand the scientific method. In particular, the area of probability which is not intuitive and vital to science is really difficult to grasp for many people.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Hi, Urban Critic, But How does believe in the existence of an existence after death help this conundrum. That was what the original question was about, My Scientistic understanding is, that I will be unable to be aware of ANYTHING after I die, Neither Heaven,nor Hell, merely 'Non Existance'
Bram van Kampen
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such as?
Bram van Kampen
Well at the moment I'm fixing a bug in some JavaScript that was originally a wrapper around either a Java or Flash audio player, but in the current year is a few thousand lines of JavaScript that implements most of the standard HTML5 media functionality (looping, autoplay, subtitles, etc) - only using the hidden audio element to load/play/pause the audio file. Clearly this code wasn't intelligently designed, it evolved to be this way.
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You mean this? [Office Space - Printer Scene (UNCENSORED) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wsjroVlu8) :)
Not, this! Red Dwarf - Silicon Heaven - YouTube[^]
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Well Richard, Did you ever read the books by Richard Dawkins, in particlar "The Blind Watchmaker". Regards,
Bram van Kampen
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Noope This is an extremely good and favourable look on life. At least I have not to be afraid anymore of the hell and damnation promised by our pastors and parents. It is a great relief to know that they were all just spinning abject nonsense at the time. Gods simply do not exist.
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
At least I have not to be afraid anymore of the hell and damnation promised by our pastors and parents.
Well there's your problem. You weren't taught truth. I can see why you are cynical.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
Gods simply do not exist.
I can tell you that He does.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
At least I have not to be afraid anymore of the hell and damnation promised by our pastors and parents.
Well there's your problem. You weren't taught truth. I can see why you are cynical.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
Gods simply do not exist.
I can tell you that He does.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Well, How can you prove that? All Phylosiphers I know, are of the opinion that the existence of God or Not, is a human assumption which can neither be proved or disproved. As long as you are happy to believe in 'A' or 'any' god, Peace be with you, as long as your God does not tell you to warr against the likes of me and mine, who do not believe in your God. :)
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
At least I have not to be afraid anymore of the hell and damnation promised by our pastors and parents.
Well there's your problem. You weren't taught truth. I can see why you are cynical.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
Gods simply do not exist.
I can tell you that He does.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Well, Offer me the proof of the existence of God, and I will accept! Believing alone is no proof. The fact is, you were probably brainwashed in your belief, by your parents. I was too! I was first of all baptised, and sent to schools where I was subjected to "Religious Education". I managed to escape from that by logical thinking. Come on now! You are capable of understanding Logic, I assume, by virtue of you being a member of this site. I sdtill maintain, God is a figment of human imagination. Kind and Friendly Regards, :)
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
These sound a hell of a lot like articles of faith to me, making you just another religious nut-job that refuses to embrace science. The distinction between faith and science is that science is, by definition, falsifiable. Faith, however, is "Knowing".
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Nathan Minier wrote:
These sound a hell of a lot like articles of faith to me, making you just another religious nut-job that refuses to embrace science. The distinction between faith and science is that science is, by definition, falsifiable. Faith, however, is "Knowing".
"
No, You misread me! I just try to convince inteligent people that God or any god at all does not exists, that Faith is something handed over from generation to generation as an infection of the mind,and that science is the way forward. As a former victim, I have to address these people in the language they are accustomed to. I am a prolestresising atheist! :)
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist.
That reflects my basic belief as well. But then I sometimes ask myself (and even others): If I am wrong, would be any great loss to me? Harp music for an eternity - I guess I'd be happy to avoid that. Some old fellow demanding that I surrender and kneel down, obeying him forever. Being told which sounds are forbidden to utter. Which food I cannot eat. Which partners I cannot have. Which thoughts I am not allowed to have. Which pleasures I am not allowed to have ... Sorry, you Christians: I do not find it attractive at all. Some other afterlives may be more attractive. I guess I'd prefer the Norse Valhalla to the world of that brute emperor of the Biblical afterlife!
Well I have rejected all religion. In it's place, I have very deep Humanism. That means that for me, nothing can be forbidden, unless it harms others. Thinking must always be free! Beyond that you are missing some points. You are talking about afterlives. My central point is, that no such thing exists. "When I die I cease to Exist" Litterally that! You cannot imagine that? well, where were you 2000 BC? can you remember? No, you did not exist at that time. Were will you be in 3000 AD, well, in the same place as in 2000 BC, You do not exist. All religions play on that being different. and tell lies over life after death. It simply does not exist, and, those that tell you that is does, are either lying or misguided. :)
Bram van Kampen
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Well, How can you prove that? All Phylosiphers I know, are of the opinion that the existence of God or Not, is a human assumption which can neither be proved or disproved. As long as you are happy to believe in 'A' or 'any' god, Peace be with you, as long as your God does not tell you to warr against the likes of me and mine, who do not believe in your God. :)
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
How can you prove that?
It's simple. Pray to Him in faith with a sincere heart and he'll answer you.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Well, Offer me the proof of the existence of God, and I will accept! Believing alone is no proof. The fact is, you were probably brainwashed in your belief, by your parents. I was too! I was first of all baptised, and sent to schools where I was subjected to "Religious Education". I managed to escape from that by logical thinking. Come on now! You are capable of understanding Logic, I assume, by virtue of you being a member of this site. I sdtill maintain, God is a figment of human imagination. Kind and Friendly Regards, :)
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
Offer me the proof of the existence of God, and I will accept!
Fair enough. But first, you prove to me that you love your family or else I won't accept that you do. :-D
Bram van Kampen wrote:
you were probably brainwashed in your belief
Nope. Came to the conclusions on my own.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
You are capable of understanding Logic,
Oh no you didn't!! You can make a lot of arguments against there being a God but logic is NOT one of them. For example, let's say you go hiking in middle of the desert and are miles and miles away from anyone or anything. You come across a pizza on the ground. Are you suggesting it's more logical to assume that the elements somehow magically came together to form the pizza or is it more logical to assume someone left it there? :-\
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
How can you prove that?
It's simple. Pray to Him in faith with a sincere heart and he'll answer you.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
's simple. Pray to Him in faith with a sincere heart and he'll answer you.
The burden of proof is upon you. I know you are a decent, kind, and, well meaning person. I also know that you are deluded, No fault of your own. Blame your parents for instilling this delusion into you from a very young age. At the same time, that sort of thought is precisely what I mean by Medieval thinking. It will never convince me! What is wrong with the older Greek and roman Gods, Zeus, Neptune etc, or, the various Viking Gods. People stopped believing in these, and, the sky did not fall down. Sooner rather than later, the same will befall this current christian God. Atheism is thankfully on the rise, and soon, mankind will be able to shake off these delusions.
Bram van Kampen
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ZurdoDev wrote:
's simple. Pray to Him in faith with a sincere heart and he'll answer you.
The burden of proof is upon you. I know you are a decent, kind, and, well meaning person. I also know that you are deluded, No fault of your own. Blame your parents for instilling this delusion into you from a very young age. At the same time, that sort of thought is precisely what I mean by Medieval thinking. It will never convince me! What is wrong with the older Greek and roman Gods, Zeus, Neptune etc, or, the various Viking Gods. People stopped believing in these, and, the sky did not fall down. Sooner rather than later, the same will befall this current christian God. Atheism is thankfully on the rise, and soon, mankind will be able to shake off these delusions.
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
The burden of proof is upon you.
And I gave it to you. What part do you not understand? Let me skip a few steps since I've been through this with other atheists and I know your playbook. The bottom line is you will NOT accept ANY evidence or ANY proof. If God showed up at your door, you would NOT believe. The problem is not in the lack or abundance of evidence, it is in your closed mind. Period.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I also know that you are deluded, No fault of your own. Blame your parents for instilling this delusion into you from a very young age.
Actually you know next to nothing about me and absolutely zero about my parents. But the fact that you would try to insult both me and my parents without knowing anything about us is immature and cowardly.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
It will never convince me!
And until you have a sincere heart, you'll never know the truth and still wonder why intelligent people believe in god.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
Offer me the proof of the existence of God, and I will accept!
Fair enough. But first, you prove to me that you love your family or else I won't accept that you do. :-D
Bram van Kampen wrote:
you were probably brainwashed in your belief
Nope. Came to the conclusions on my own.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
You are capable of understanding Logic,
Oh no you didn't!! You can make a lot of arguments against there being a God but logic is NOT one of them. For example, let's say you go hiking in middle of the desert and are miles and miles away from anyone or anything. You come across a pizza on the ground. Are you suggesting it's more logical to assume that the elements somehow magically came together to form the pizza or is it more logical to assume someone left it there? :-\
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Well, I now understand the angle you come from: Intelligent Design. (For those not in the Know, If you find a working watch on a beach, you must assume that someone made it, If you find a far more complex thing, something like a Human on Earth, someone. I.E. God) must have made it. It assumes an Outside reason, namely God. The Counter argument is as follows:- Over Millions of years, chemical processes have occurred, Life forms have developed and died out, and now, there is a life form with greater than average inteligence. It arrived by total coincidence, but, ik can ask questions. It starts inventing Gods to explain it's own existence.) That cuts absolutely no ice with me, and, was dismissed as a fallacy philosophy at least 20 years ago. Read a few science books, in particular those written by Richard Dankin, particularly, "The Blind Watch Maker". We look back in history to look for a reason for our existence. We arrived as a human race where we are, purely by chance. Had we not arrived here, we would not have existed to argue the point. No, you have not allowed yourself to disassociate yourself from medieval myths, promulgated trough the centuries. As soon as you get your head around it, you will look back and realise that you are spouting recycled medieval bullshit.
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
The Concept of a Soul is a medieval construct to explain the things that at the time could not be understood. I think we are in a position to know better now. I for one am not afraid of dying. I will simply cease to exist. This has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with Knowing.
These sound a hell of a lot like articles of faith to me, making you just another religious nut-job that refuses to embrace science. The distinction between faith and science is that science is, by definition, falsifiable. Faith, however, is "Knowing".
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Well, It actually embraces science. :)
Bram van Kampen