Exit to Brexit
-
I hope you're right about abandoning the whole process but the sainted Theresa seems impervious to all and everything thrown at her. The people have spoken - aarghh if I hear that one more time.
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
- UK GDP is about 1,900 billion. Hard Brexit is predicted to, at worst, cost perhaps 2% of GDP (BoE) 2% of 1,900 billion is... 38 billion. Mays deal is immediately as bad as the worst case scenario Brexit. Mervyn King, es head of the BoE, said there will be some adjustment, but no real disruption. 2) The EU is not a democratic machine. The EU parliament can not make law, only the Commission can. 3) The next 7 year EU budget, due to start soon, sees UK contributions rising to 17 billion a year. 4) Food went up 15% when we joined the EEC. It will fall 15% when we leave. 5) Sterling is already 15%-20% cheaper than 2016, so even with WTO tariffs on our products they are still cheaper on the continent than they were three years ago. Why do you not support democracy? Why do you not support saving money? What are you scared of? We will be perfectly OK outside the EU, and actually better off.
-
Assuming again, are we? I'm advocating a single definitive vote now that we actually know the facts. Why are you so scared of that, I wonder?
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
PeejayAdams wrote:
now that we actually know the facts
We know more than we did previously. How about in a few weeks time when we know even more and what we know then may contradict what we know now? What is the definition of "knowing all the facts"? and who gets to make that definition? or should we have a vote on the definition?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
-
Well, The End is in sight! An unprecedented 5.2 million votes on the House of commons website to cancel article 50! That cannot be ignored. There will be celebrations on the streets of Ireland, North and South when Brexit is abandoned, which seems now inevitable. I have never met any person here who was in favour of Brexit in the first place. (Even Most of the DUP supporters are against Brexit). If it results in riots on the streets in England, so be it! Let them cut each others throats if that pleases them. Northern Ireland Schotland, The Netherlands, and, the Republic of Ireland will celebrate abundantly! As for that original referendum: An act of eternal stupidity, which should be totally ignored.
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
An unprecedented 5.2 million votes on the House of commons website to cancel article 50! That cannot be ignored.
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
-
PeejayAdams wrote:
now that we actually know the facts
We know more than we did previously. How about in a few weeks time when we know even more and what we know then may contradict what we know now? What is the definition of "knowing all the facts"? and who gets to make that definition? or should we have a vote on the definition?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
The original vote did not deal with any specific notion of what Brexit actually meant. As we have seen since, some seemed to think they were voting for a Norwegian model, some for a Canadian model, some for committing economic suicide in order to teach Johnny Foreigner a lesson, and a whole stack of other notions. During the campaign (both sides of which absolutely elephanting awful), no-one was talking of Customs Unions, the Irish border, the crapness of WTO rules or anything else which may have actually been relevant. It was all rainbows and unicorns on one side and the idiot Cameron on the other (and no, I can't remember a single goddamn thing that he said, either). The debate seldom, if ever, rose above a level of tabloid claptrap, idiotic slogans repeated ad nauseum and blatant lies. 3 years on, yes, I do think we know a fair bit more than we did and more importantly, we'd be voting on a specific deal rather than a nebulous concept.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
-
Because it was a largely uninformed referendum with a couple of misleading statements thrown in to boot
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
Is there any other kind when politicians are involved?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
Because it was a largely uninformed referendum with a couple of misleading statements thrown in to boot
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
-
Bram van Kampen wrote:
An unprecedented 5.2 million votes on the House of commons website to cancel article 50! That cannot be ignored.
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Well, That is undoubtedly true. However, first of all children cannot vote. There are famously 17.2 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016, and 15.9 million people who voted against. Those who voted against are being totally ignored. So, the interested electorate that actually came out of their bed and voted, is 33.1 million votes. The support for the petition to withdraw article 50 has since risen to 5.5 million, and is rising. That is unprecedented in parliamentary history. The other petition, to leave the EU without a deal got about 600,000 votes in comparison. Now, multiply this with a factor (on both sides) to represent the opinion of those who could not be bothered to vote. As a further, we see Britain here in Northern Ireland as an occupying force, no better or worse than the German occupation of Europe during the last war. Like it or not! The soldiers have gone, and we have had 20 years of peace here, since the good friday agreement. England is very much seen here as the occupying nation dragging us out of the EU, overwhelmingly against our will. Do not be deluded by the local fascists, the DUP. They represent a tiny minority here! That are the fascists that promote those marches during the summer in towns where they are not wanted here. We do not want to tear up that peace! That (hated) backstop is there for a reason! It will ultimately stop the hard men from what is left of the IRA to get new recruits, and give reasons for a bombing campaign in say Manchester, Liverpool or London. The English never think about Ireland is the universal saying here. The referendum proved that that is quite apt!
Bram van Kampen
-
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have never met any person here who was in favour of Brexit in the first place.
Post this in the soapbox, you will meet a couple of them that will be happy to explain you everything from the other side of the coin @Sean-Ewington would you mind to move the thread?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Well, I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
Bram van Kampen
-
Well, That is undoubtedly true. However, first of all children cannot vote. There are famously 17.2 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016, and 15.9 million people who voted against. Those who voted against are being totally ignored. So, the interested electorate that actually came out of their bed and voted, is 33.1 million votes. The support for the petition to withdraw article 50 has since risen to 5.5 million, and is rising. That is unprecedented in parliamentary history. The other petition, to leave the EU without a deal got about 600,000 votes in comparison. Now, multiply this with a factor (on both sides) to represent the opinion of those who could not be bothered to vote. As a further, we see Britain here in Northern Ireland as an occupying force, no better or worse than the German occupation of Europe during the last war. Like it or not! The soldiers have gone, and we have had 20 years of peace here, since the good friday agreement. England is very much seen here as the occupying nation dragging us out of the EU, overwhelmingly against our will. Do not be deluded by the local fascists, the DUP. They represent a tiny minority here! That are the fascists that promote those marches during the summer in towns where they are not wanted here. We do not want to tear up that peace! That (hated) backstop is there for a reason! It will ultimately stop the hard men from what is left of the IRA to get new recruits, and give reasons for a bombing campaign in say Manchester, Liverpool or London. The English never think about Ireland is the universal saying here. The referendum proved that that is quite apt!
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
Those who voted against are being totally ignored.
It's called democracy... it ain't perfect but its better than all current alternatives.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
As a further, we see Britain here in Northern Ireland as an occupying force, no better or worse than the German occupation of Europe during the last war.
...and now we get to the crux of the problem. I'm not going to pretend to understand even the broad strokes of the dynamics between Northern Ireland and Great Britain - let alone the minutia. Maybe y'all should have a stay or go referendum like Scotland - then again you haven't shown the willingness to accept these kind of votes when they don't go your way... so maybe not.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
-
Bram van Kampen wrote:
An unprecedented 5.2 million votes on the House of commons website to cancel article 50! That cannot be ignored.
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
By that logic, 48.8 million people did NOT vote to leave the EU. ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
-
Mike Mullikin wrote:
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
By that logic, 48.8 million people did NOT vote to leave the EU. ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Touché! But isn't it also true that in 1973 not a single person voted to join the EEC?
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
-
Touché! But isn't it also true that in 1973 not a single person voted to join the EEC?
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
-
So... with a 1975 UK population of 56 million that means 38.6 million did not vote to remain. ;P
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
-
So... with a 1975 UK population of 56 million that means 38.6 million did not vote to remain. ;P
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Yes. And 47.5 million did not vote to leave. :-D
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
-
Well, I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
I didn't say you would find good arguments, I just said, here you would find people in favour of Brexit ;P :-D
Nelek wrote:
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have never met any person here who was in favour of Brexit in the first place.
Post this in the soapbox, you will meet a couple of them that will be happy to explain you everything from the other side of the coin
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
I didn't say you would find good arguments, I just said, here you would find people in favour of Brexit ;P :-D
Nelek wrote:
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have never met any person here who was in favour of Brexit in the first place.
Post this in the soapbox, you will meet a couple of them that will be happy to explain you everything from the other side of the coin
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Well, The people that advocated this idea of leaving the EU have evidently left leave of their senses. No point starting an argument with morons.
Bram van Kampen
-
We're not out of the woods, yet and there is still a very real danger that we could bomb out without a deal. Even if if we do come to our senses and pull back from the brink by revoking Article 50 or at least giving the people another vote, a lot of damage has already been done
No, News today, May could be legally required to rescind article 50, to avoid a No Deal! Such was today's reported advice from the Authorny General!
Bram van Kampen
-
Well, The Leave campaign secured their narrow victory on great lies. The DUP is considered here the local minority fascist party. Wait to the summer when those fascists start their Marches again, for no other reason than to intimidate the local Catholics! We do not care to be in the UK. We could accept being part of the UK whilst the UK was part of the EU. WE in Northern Ireland, prefer by great majority to remain in the EU!
Bram van Kampen
-
No, News today, May could be legally required to rescind article 50, to avoid a No Deal! Such was today's reported advice from the Authorny General!
Bram van Kampen
Hadn't seen that. I think there's a long way to go yet. May's bowing to pressure and resigning might cause some brexiteers to back her vote for political convenience but I don't see how that can be said to materially change the deal on offer which no-one actually likes.
