Exit to Brexit
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Well, That is undoubtedly true. However, first of all children cannot vote. There are famously 17.2 million people who voted for Brexit in 2016, and 15.9 million people who voted against. Those who voted against are being totally ignored. So, the interested electorate that actually came out of their bed and voted, is 33.1 million votes. The support for the petition to withdraw article 50 has since risen to 5.5 million, and is rising. That is unprecedented in parliamentary history. The other petition, to leave the EU without a deal got about 600,000 votes in comparison. Now, multiply this with a factor (on both sides) to represent the opinion of those who could not be bothered to vote. As a further, we see Britain here in Northern Ireland as an occupying force, no better or worse than the German occupation of Europe during the last war. Like it or not! The soldiers have gone, and we have had 20 years of peace here, since the good friday agreement. England is very much seen here as the occupying nation dragging us out of the EU, overwhelmingly against our will. Do not be deluded by the local fascists, the DUP. They represent a tiny minority here! That are the fascists that promote those marches during the summer in towns where they are not wanted here. We do not want to tear up that peace! That (hated) backstop is there for a reason! It will ultimately stop the hard men from what is left of the IRA to get new recruits, and give reasons for a bombing campaign in say Manchester, Liverpool or London. The English never think about Ireland is the universal saying here. The referendum proved that that is quite apt!
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
Those who voted against are being totally ignored.
It's called democracy... it ain't perfect but its better than all current alternatives.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
As a further, we see Britain here in Northern Ireland as an occupying force, no better or worse than the German occupation of Europe during the last war.
...and now we get to the crux of the problem. I'm not going to pretend to understand even the broad strokes of the dynamics between Northern Ireland and Great Britain - let alone the minutia. Maybe y'all should have a stay or go referendum like Scotland - then again you haven't shown the willingness to accept these kind of votes when they don't go your way... so maybe not.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
An unprecedented 5.2 million votes on the House of commons website to cancel article 50! That cannot be ignored.
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
By that logic, 48.8 million people did NOT vote to leave the EU. ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
With a UK population of 66 million that means 61 million people did NOT vote to cancel article 50. :doh: :rolleyes:
By that logic, 48.8 million people did NOT vote to leave the EU. ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Touché! But isn't it also true that in 1973 not a single person voted to join the EEC?
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Touché! But isn't it also true that in 1973 not a single person voted to join the EEC?
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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So... with a 1975 UK population of 56 million that means 38.6 million did not vote to remain. ;P
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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So... with a 1975 UK population of 56 million that means 38.6 million did not vote to remain. ;P
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Yes. And 47.5 million did not vote to leave. :-D
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Well, I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
I didn't say you would find good arguments, I just said, here you would find people in favour of Brexit ;P :-D
Nelek wrote:
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have never met any person here who was in favour of Brexit in the first place.
Post this in the soapbox, you will meet a couple of them that will be happy to explain you everything from the other side of the coin
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
I didn't say you would find good arguments, I just said, here you would find people in favour of Brexit ;P :-D
Nelek wrote:
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have never met any person here who was in favour of Brexit in the first place.
Post this in the soapbox, you will meet a couple of them that will be happy to explain you everything from the other side of the coin
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Well, The people that advocated this idea of leaving the EU have evidently left leave of their senses. No point starting an argument with morons.
Bram van Kampen
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We're not out of the woods, yet and there is still a very real danger that we could bomb out without a deal. Even if if we do come to our senses and pull back from the brink by revoking Article 50 or at least giving the people another vote, a lot of damage has already been done
No, News today, May could be legally required to rescind article 50, to avoid a No Deal! Such was today's reported advice from the Authorny General!
Bram van Kampen
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Well, The Leave campaign secured their narrow victory on great lies. The DUP is considered here the local minority fascist party. Wait to the summer when those fascists start their Marches again, for no other reason than to intimidate the local Catholics! We do not care to be in the UK. We could accept being part of the UK whilst the UK was part of the EU. WE in Northern Ireland, prefer by great majority to remain in the EU!
Bram van Kampen
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No, News today, May could be legally required to rescind article 50, to avoid a No Deal! Such was today's reported advice from the Authorny General!
Bram van Kampen
Hadn't seen that. I think there's a long way to go yet. May's bowing to pressure and resigning might cause some brexiteers to back her vote for political convenience but I don't see how that can be said to materially change the deal on offer which no-one actually likes.
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Oh yes, what a great idea. And if some of us don't like that result then let's vote again, and again ... :rolleyes:
Well Richard, I am in a community in Northern Ireland that vehemently rejects Brexit! Northern Ireland as a whole voted to remain. I indeed have never met anyone who has a good word to say for that idea! We do not care at all about democracy in England. As far as we are concerned, they can cut each others throats as long as it satisfies them! Whether or not the english political parties split into factions, we could not care less. My community sees the whole Brexit idea as an act of war perpetrated upon us by the English! We do not care for the consequences of No Brexit in England, which we consider a foreign and alien country! The DUP does not speak for us, we consider them the local fascists! We do not consider that any policies in the house of commons should hold sway here. The IRA has fought an honorable and glorious war to get Northern Ireland to this state of recognition. English people need constant reminders that Northern Ireland exists. Until about 20 years ago, it needed warfare. Then we got the Good Friday Agreement, and Peace! Then again, came the referendum, Ireland was forgotten again. The English fail to understand that any form of border in Ireland will re-ignite the war! This is not a threat, but an unfortunate prediction: Do you really want to see IRA Bombs in Manchester, Liverpool or London? Well, that backstop is the guarantee that such is unlikely to happen. It cannot be diluted, or, time limited! The EU will also never give up on that! Our main concern here is to stop Brexit at all costs! But, Lo and Behold The DUP delivered us from Brexit, hopefully with a delay of 200 years or more!
Bram van Kampen
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Hadn't seen that. I think there's a long way to go yet. May's bowing to pressure and resigning might cause some brexiteers to back her vote for political convenience but I don't see how that can be said to materially change the deal on offer which no-one actually likes.
Well, Such was the legal advice to the government. Hopefully, Brexit is Dead now!
Bram van Kampen
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That may not matter anymore! The DUP has killed her deal!
Bram van Kampen
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Yes. And 47.5 million did not vote to leave. :-D
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Well, they need to be mobilised for the next vote!
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
Those who voted against are being totally ignored.
It's called democracy... it ain't perfect but its better than all current alternatives.
Bram van Kampen wrote:
As a further, we see Britain here in Northern Ireland as an occupying force, no better or worse than the German occupation of Europe during the last war.
...and now we get to the crux of the problem. I'm not going to pretend to understand even the broad strokes of the dynamics between Northern Ireland and Great Britain - let alone the minutia. Maybe y'all should have a stay or go referendum like Scotland - then again you haven't shown the willingness to accept these kind of votes when they don't go your way... so maybe not.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
You have absolutely no idea of the resentment felt here! It took 30 years of IRA bombing to get England to the conference table to reach a peace treaty. In that treaty it was broadly accepted that peace could be established on the basis of common membership of the EU! That is now being torn up! We in Northern Ireland will NEVER accept a referendum about English Party Political infighting. Thank God, it was scuppered!
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have listened to all the 'Leave' arguments. None of them are worthy of any consideration.
I didn't say you would find good arguments, I just said, here you would find people in favour of Brexit ;P :-D
Nelek wrote:
Bram van Kampen wrote:
I have never met any person here who was in favour of Brexit in the first place.
Post this in the soapbox, you will meet a couple of them that will be happy to explain you everything from the other side of the coin
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Why should I be interested of meeting that sort of people!
Bram van Kampen
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You have absolutely no idea of the resentment felt here! It took 30 years of IRA bombing to get England to the conference table to reach a peace treaty. In that treaty it was broadly accepted that peace could be established on the basis of common membership of the EU! That is now being torn up! We in Northern Ireland will NEVER accept a referendum about English Party Political infighting. Thank God, it was scuppered!
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
You have absolutely no idea of the resentment felt here!
Given the nonchalance you use when referring to bombing innocents I'd say I have a pretty good idea. Good luck with your hatred... that can't be healthy. :|
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
You have absolutely no idea of the resentment felt here!
Given the nonchalance you use when referring to bombing innocents I'd say I have a pretty good idea. Good luck with your hatred... that can't be healthy. :|
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Well, Northern Ireland Nationalists experienced a War against a suppressor! The suppressor was the self same DUP on which the English Conservative party now relies for a majority vote. A club of Fascists! When people here stood up to the fascist regime in 1969 by way of peaceful demonstrations for equal rights, the English responded, not by calling the fascist government to order, but, by coming out in support of that fascist government, and started to shoot peaceful demonstrators! That brought naturally, the war to England! Unfortunately, that war claimed many innocent victims, and took many fronts. From a Nationalist Ireland point of view, do not blame the Irish for innocent victims of IRA attacks, blame the successive British governments, for refusals to recognise the desperate political system and negotiate or mandate for something better! One front they took was against law enforcement officers, which could be shot dead on sight! That included any member of the British Army, where identified, any Tax Inspector, Social Welfare Inspector,TV Licence Inspector, etc. Any civil servant who could enforce a fine or other punishment. The other side of the strategy was to maximise everybody's wealth by making claims on social security benefits. The Idea at the time was to make Northern Ireland too expensive too keep. The bottom line is still, that the parliament in London only listens to Irish concerns, when forced to do so. They will never do so voluntarily. In this case, it took 'The Backstop', in other cases, it took bombs in cities in the past before the Irish were taken serious! Yes, we are extremely embittered here! Not just me, nearly every one here! Once again a foreign nation is foisting something upon us! Not even the DUP likes it now! They would rather shaft brexit, than risk the union!(That is in the national Papers) No, My hatred is actually healthy. I am standing up for the country I live in! :) To Clarify: We Northern Ireland Nationalists, do not consider ourselves to be members of the UK! But we are very much members of the EU till infinity!
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
referendum: An act of eternal stupidity
Can't agree there, why blame the referendum? Had it been properly constituted with more than a simple majority and with a compulsory vote then the result would truly reflect the desires of the people. In most countries referendums are used when there is a desire to change the constitution, an artifact that is absent in Britain. This means careful thought has been given to how a referendum should work. Moreover as is evident now many who voted did not even know what the possible outcomes were which means that the question was poorly framed: The Brexit referendum question was flawed in its design | LSE BREXIT[^]
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
Well, I did not organise it, I even had no Vote in it! I understand you are from Belgie. If so, let us expose the arguments together, you seem like someone I can converse with, I am Dutch, born and bred in Delft, now living in Newry in northern Ireland. The Newry electorate voted 99% to remain in the UK. A Foreign Oppressor, England voted to drag us out.
Bram van Kampen
