Offline web apps
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Sander Rossel wrote:
I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS
Apparently, you can use Xamarin.iOS[^] from Visual Studio on Windows. Edit: Scratch that. You can develop on Windows, but you still need a Mac to build.
Installing Xamarin.iOS on Windows - Xamarin | Microsoft Docs[^]:
To build Xamarin.iOS apps with Visual Studio 2019 on Windows, you will need:
- A Windows machine with Visual Studio 2019 installed. This can be a physical or a virtual machine.
- A network-accessible Mac set up with Apple's build tools and Xamarin.iOS. Visual Studio 2019 accesses this machine over a network connection to use Apple's build tools, which are required for compiling native iOS applications.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Unless stuff has changed you still need a Mac to do the build because Xamarin just wraps Apple's tool chain.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Maybe the clue is in the title... "Offline web apps"... why not have a look into creating a HTML web app that works offline using local storage? Unless you have an issue with JavaScript, then it might not be such fun. Then it should work the same on all device types.
Because
Sander Rossel wrote:
I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good.
;) I've also heard not every browser handles it well and not all web pages can be cached. Of course, if it's the best option I'll use it. But not before looking into some other alternatives.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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[Flutter](https://flutter.dev) might be worth a look. I'm sure there should be ways to store data locally and sync back later.
I've heard about that one. It's worth considering it, thanks :thumbsup:
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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B4X seems to be the bees knees at the moment: ways-to-make-a-cross-platform-application[^] And as a Web-guy you will probably be interested in: PWABuilder[^] :-\
"B4X programming language is a modern version of Visual Basic."[^] X|
RickZeeland wrote:
Not sure what this does yet, but it looks pretty smart :omg:
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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I hear that Notepad runs on most operating systems... :rolleyes:
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark TwainThat's why they're using that now (that, or pen and paper). It's also really not what they need :doh:
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
If they can use their phone, the internet is available. Make it a web app and walk away.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
"B4X programming language is a modern version of Visual Basic."[^] X|
RickZeeland wrote:
Not sure what this does yet, but it looks pretty smart :omg:
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Because
Sander Rossel wrote:
I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good.
;) I've also heard not every browser handles it well and not all web pages can be cached. Of course, if it's the best option I'll use it. But not before looking into some other alternatives.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
:laugh: I guess I got bored of reading by that point, my bad. Personally I would probably only go for offline web app if it was a simple one page application. If you make it too good, you risk the danger of being asked to make it do everything the existing app does.
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:laugh: I guess I got bored of reading by that point, my bad. Personally I would probably only go for offline web app if it was a simple one page application. If you make it too good, you risk the danger of being asked to make it do everything the existing app does.
musefan wrote:
you risk the danger of being asked to make it do everything the existing app does
Risk the danger of months worth of work and getting paid accordingly? Where do I sign!? :D
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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If they can use their phone, the internet is available. Make it a web app and walk away.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I'd prefer a happy customer who'll come to me for advice and software in the future as well :~
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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As long as it does not have 'basic' in the name it's ok, that explains why Python is such an overwhelming success :-\
There'll be a time when people get nauseous when something is prefixed with Py :D Customer: "So we're looking for a vNext Basic developer." Programmer: "Please no." Customer: "Alright, we could really use someone who knows PyLibrary though." Programmer: "Not a chance." Customer: "Perhaps CFamily is your kind of language?" Programmer: "Keep this up and you'll get some foul language from me." Customer: "You'd fit right into our Java* team." Programmer: "My fist would fit right into your face." Customer: "We have this Language On Rails." Programmer: *Hits customer in the eye.*
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Unless stuff has changed you still need a Mac to do the build because Xamarin just wraps Apple's tool chain.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
You're right. You can develop on Windows, but you still need a Mac to build. :doh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined" - Homer
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
surprised no one mentioned excel columns to put product (even lookup product on another worksheet), qty, comments protected cells so they don't mess up the lookups etc well it's a step above notepad/written notes - they should get the right info in the right place most of the time - and easier to check when fed back into server at the office. basically like notepad but forcing some common format/structure (even if manually keyed in later) and at the end of the day how much more can a portable app do that excel cant? (in fact apps tend to be too smart rigid, not much fun for folks out in the polder)
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You're right. You can develop on Windows, but you still need a Mac to build. :doh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
That makes it a lot less interesting :(
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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surprised no one mentioned excel columns to put product (even lookup product on another worksheet), qty, comments protected cells so they don't mess up the lookups etc well it's a step above notepad/written notes - they should get the right info in the right place most of the time - and easier to check when fed back into server at the office. basically like notepad but forcing some common format/structure (even if manually keyed in later) and at the end of the day how much more can a portable app do that excel cant? (in fact apps tend to be too smart rigid, not much fun for folks out in the polder)
Message Signature (Click to edit ->)
I'm actually looking to replace an Excel sheet at another customer. Lots of manual copy/pasting from another application, lots of business rules hidden in lots of complicated formulas, and the occasional error in data... Only one person knows how it works and it's only necessary to get anything shipped on time. When he's on vacation he works ahead, during his vacation some tasks are just not done at all, and when he gets back everyone has two weeks of work to catch up to :laugh: Yeah, let's not go there.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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I'm actually looking to replace an Excel sheet at another customer. Lots of manual copy/pasting from another application, lots of business rules hidden in lots of complicated formulas, and the occasional error in data... Only one person knows how it works and it's only necessary to get anything shipped on time. When he's on vacation he works ahead, during his vacation some tasks are just not done at all, and when he gets back everyone has two weeks of work to catch up to :laugh: Yeah, let's not go there.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Sander Rossel wrote:
during his vacation some many tasks are just not done at all, and when he gets back everyone has two weeks of work to catch up to
well that describes most [in particular chinese] small, family run businesses. that's my every day here.
Message Signature (Click to edit ->)
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
u could develop a offline app for an android phone or tablet which as 3g/4g modem which are cheaper to give to sales personnel to do field work , if there is no connection later it will synch the data with the cloud server or aws/azure cloud db ....
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Sander Rossel wrote:
during his vacation some many tasks are just not done at all, and when he gets back everyone has two weeks of work to catch up to
well that describes most [in particular chinese] small, family run businesses. that's my every day here.
Message Signature (Click to edit ->)
I'm talking about a company with 100's of employees, multiple locations and millions in revenue :laugh: Well, to be fair, each location has their own Excel sheet (or whatever the other locations use) :laugh:
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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I'd prefer a happy customer who'll come to me for advice and software in the future as well :~
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
What I'm saying is that if they can use their phone, they can use the internet. If they can't use the internet, make a phone app that can be used offline, and that allows the salesman to manually sync up to the web site when his phone can get a signal. Problem with a phone/tablet app - you need to put it in the appropriate play store for users to download it. That makes it available to everyone on the planet. The whole thing is a mess, and it sucks to have to deal with this kind of stuff.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
I agree with JSOP. Write it as a web app and run it on any device. I was tempted to do an iOS app a few years ago for a new customer who elected to use iPads. I tried Xamarin with mixed results, and ultimately decided it wasn't worth the effort or the cost (you have to buy a developer license) for a single customer. Instead, I just wrote up a document explaining how to create homescreen shortcuts to the two apps they needed. (which were already azure web apps anyway...on windows, they run in a browser container (to get the workstation name), for iPads, the shortcut contains a unique id for each iPad.) This has worked really well. Now for a funny story. Back in 2002, our con man salesman promised a few clients that if they bought X today, we could give them a very deep discount (free) on our new web-based POS system when it came out the next year. Well, they bought, and I got started from scratch on our new web-based POS. There were a few real challenges: 0: unreliability of the internet at the time meant that there had to be an off-line mode 1: responsiveness was a priority...long pauses caused by slow connections were not acceptable 2: integration with other local resources/systems (such as barcode/scanner input, imports/exports, images, etc.) Based on those challenges, decided that the customers would need to host their own databases and webserver. They could host for their 80+ locations. The first 6 months were spent using classic asp and throwing together enough screens to test basic functionality. While it worked, the responsiveness issue (or lack thereof) was a deal breaker. Remember, this was almost 20 years ago and hardware/networks/browsers were much slower. :sigh: With 6 months until training, I separated the application into around a dozen modules which became ActiveX controls which were placed on a common webpage for all 80 something locations. :) Not only was it web-based, it was auto-updating, it was available offline, and it connected to local resources. Most of all, it was responsive. Overall, it was a good application and I learned a lot doing it, but it was one of the first to be phased out (not resold) as it was not a market we (I) wanted to be in anyway. I still have it on a disk somewhere. So, there's that example of a windows app masquerading as a web app but I have also done the reverse...running a web app in a browser control of a windows app. Sometimes, hybrid is the answer.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
