Offline web apps
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0 - I have not used any of the following in real world, but hopefully helpful pointers to look at. 1 - what is your language preference/strongest If wanting to stick with c#/.net side of things, look toward Xamarin. Build one logic core, apply platform specifics for android/ios where needed. But will need apple machine to build the ios version. 2 - Web App with offline functionality
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clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good
Is this a real concern or over thinking? I would expect offline data to be stored in the local storage api and not as cookies. Yes this can be cleared, but I would check what the default settings are for clearing. If want to give the "feel" of an app, then maybe look at wrapping it in electronjs
maze3 wrote:
Is this a real concern or over thinking?
I'm not sure. I know someone who clears everything by default. I know she's an exception, but it still worries me. Xamarin looks like it could be a valid option. Or maybe a web app with offline functionality, because it'll be cheaper for the client :D
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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Looks like low-code and the code you have to write is VB.NET. I'm a bit allergic to low-code since my last experience with it (no source control, the code you have to write becomes a lot more difficult to write because you need to know the framework, the drag'n'drop "code" takes ages to click together, the database had no query language...). I'll put it on my long-list though.
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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There are services that will do the deployment, I forget the name of the one my company uses, that will compile the iOS version of the app for you and submit to Apple store etc. That way you don't have to have a Mac. BitRise or DevOps I think might be the names or name of what they use.
B
Now it's interesting again! This thread is an emotional roller coaster :laugh:
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Google's Firebase real-time database is designed for exactly this particular scenario. You don't have to do this, but if you combined it with something like Flutter, you've got a platform for building xplat mobile apps, and (coming soon) web apps on top of it too.
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Google's Firebase real-time database is designed for exactly this particular scenario. You don't have to do this, but if you combined it with something like Flutter, you've got a platform for building xplat mobile apps, and (coming soon) web apps on top of it too.
Looks very cool! :thumbsup: It's on top of my long-list now :D
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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There are services that will do the deployment, I forget the name of the one my company uses, that will compile the iOS version of the app for you and submit to Apple store etc. That way you don't have to have a Mac. BitRise or DevOps I think might be the names or name of what they use.
B
The last time I looked into it, you still need the Apple machine to do storyboarding, which I have found to be helpful.
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
Yes. Xamarin Forms using Visual Studio 2019 on Windows, with a Mac Mini or other Mac on the network that you can connect to from VS2019 and if needed, VNC into. The single Xamarin Forms solution creates iOS, Android, and UWP (for Windows) projects. The UI code is written once (though you can include native UI code if and when necessary, which is rare or non-existent), and shared between the OS-specific projects. The time-to-delivery is better than other development platforms when one considers equally skilled developers in each platform. I use that setup and it works like a charm. The caveat, which is true in about any development environment, is to use the tool as it was designed to be used. Native mobile apps (stateful) are a wholly different architecture than web apps (stateless). In fact, they are more like WinForms apps than like web apps. You can build the WebAPI code in the same project, so if there is an Internet connection, the data uploads. If the connection is not there, you can save the data locally, and automatically upload when connected.
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You're right. You can develop on Windows, but you still need a Mac to build. :doh:
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
To clarify, the VS in Windows handles the building on the Mac remotely, so you don't have to build on the Mac yourself. VS even builds it on the Mac, and runs it in an emulator on the Windows machine. All your development, building, and deployment takes place through VS on Windows. It is only because of Apple's highly proprietary licensing that the Mac is required.
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The last time I looked into it, you still need the Apple machine to do storyboarding, which I have found to be helpful.
If MS would maker a XAML Designer on a par with the WinForms designer, the Storyboard would be superfluous. I don't use it. I muddle through with the UI tools provided for Xamarin XAML.
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If they can use their phone, the internet is available. Make it a web app and walk away.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013#realJSOP wrote:
If they can use their phone, the internet is available
Have you worked with farmers in rural areas? Until 5G becomes pervasive, there are lots of fields and farmhouses out in the country where the Internet is not available (even on corporate farms), and no service or unstable service for the wireless network. Working offline is a real use case for the scenario presented.
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SeasonedGuru wrote:
That is something that not even MS ... can do.
What "popular platform" does Xamarin not support?
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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#realJSOP wrote:
If they can use their phone, the internet is available
Have you worked with farmers in rural areas? Until 5G becomes pervasive, there are lots of fields and farmhouses out in the country where the Internet is not available (even on corporate farms), and no service or unstable service for the wireless network. Working offline is a real use case for the scenario presented.
Once again (and for the 3rd time), if the internet is not available, write a desktop app that will sync up when you're able to. It doesn't have to be a phone/tablet app, and probably even shouldn't be. A windows destop app is appropriate. When you're gonna go out (literally) in the field, synch up pricing onto the laptop before you begin travel (just in case uinternet isn't available), and use the laptop to do the sales stuff (using your phone/tablet as a WAP). It ain't rocket science, and I can't believe I have to f*ckin spell this out.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
I've been using Ionic (ionicframework.com) for several years. It works well if you want to target Apple, Android and web all with one code base. It also supports Progressive Web Apps (offline web applications). I've had clients that did not want to pay for an iOS developer, an Android developer and a web developer but wanted it on all 3 platforms. Obviously, having one code base also makes it easier to maintain.
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Once again (and for the 3rd time), if the internet is not available, write a desktop app that will sync up when you're able to. It doesn't have to be a phone/tablet app, and probably even shouldn't be. A windows destop app is appropriate. When you're gonna go out (literally) in the field, synch up pricing onto the laptop before you begin travel (just in case uinternet isn't available), and use the laptop to do the sales stuff (using your phone/tablet as a WAP). It ain't rocket science, and I can't believe I have to f*ckin spell this out.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013You are missing the point. In the field, a tablet or smartphone is easier to manage than carrying along a Windows laptop. Your idea works OK if the person is carrying a Surface tablet that can run a desktop app. But if you want to give the field staff the versatility to use a tablet or smartphone, or even a laptop, then a Xamarin Forms app is the best approach. Xamarin Forms apps are, in essence, a desktop app that runs on iOS, Android, or Windows. No need to get your panties in a wad and be snarky because you do not get the problem domain.
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
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You are missing the point. In the field, a tablet or smartphone is easier to manage than carrying along a Windows laptop. Your idea works OK if the person is carrying a Surface tablet that can run a desktop app. But if you want to give the field staff the versatility to use a tablet or smartphone, or even a laptop, then a Xamarin Forms app is the best approach. Xamarin Forms apps are, in essence, a desktop app that runs on iOS, Android, or Windows. No need to get your panties in a wad and be snarky because you do not get the problem domain.
They may be "easier to manage", but getting an app onto those devices requires going through the appropriate play store. Getting software onto a laptop requires no such restriction, PLUS most laptops rn Windows, so you only have one latform to support. But whatever...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
They may be "easier to manage", but getting an app onto those devices requires going through the appropriate play store. Getting software onto a laptop requires no such restriction, PLUS most laptops rn Windows, so you only have one latform to support. But whatever...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013#realJSOP wrote:
but getting an app onto those devices requires going through the appropriate play store
Not true. They can be deployed privately. Further, supporting multiple platforms with Xamarin Forms is easy, since there is really just one virtualized platform. If the use case is an app for use only within your organization, where you have 100% control over what is used in the field, then your approach makes the most sense - a thin client WinForms or WPF or UWP. Take your pick. However, if the use case is for users outside your organization (company-to-company, for example; or for a marketable app to other organizations), then the Xamarin Forms route makes the most sense. Even in an organization, field staff may have their equipment determined by the field office, especially if it is a franchise.
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
What about using the Qt framework(Qt | Cross-platform software development for embedded & desktop[^])? You could build the application on Windows, iOS, and Android. If you share your final source code with your customer, you may be able to use the Open Source version, but I would check the licensing restrictions. You could also check out Felgo(Felgo: Build Native Cross-Platform Apps and Games. Rapidly.[^]), as well. It is build on top of the Qt framework, but their licensing seems more understandable. Cheers!
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So I'm taking over this client with the WinForms application. I know this client wants some new software in the near future. The thing is, he has some sales people who go and sell their product over at the customer, who are all farmers. They also go out in the field where internet isn't always available. I know they either have a phone or tablet where they want to enter the client's order. They currently write it down on paper or enter it as plain text on a tablet and then someone else enters it into the WinForms application. So I'm thinking, since internet is not always available, I'll have to go with a phone app. It should work on iOS and Android and, if possible, also on tablets, which can also be Windows. These apps are installed locally so they should always work, even without internet. Entered data can be cached when internet is not available and synced once an internet connection becomes available again (which can be hours later). Does anyone here know of a tool, library or framework that runs on phones and tablets on iOS, Android and Windows or am I doomed to write umpteen different apps? I know PhoneGap works on iOS and Android (and in the past on Windows Phone too). I've heard some good things about Xamarin too. But I have no experience in either. I know I'll need a Mac to build anything for iOS because Apple are a bunch of ... Well, if you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all :) I've also read about actual offline web pages, but doing something like clearing your browser history or cookies will mess them up good. It sounds like it's all kind of crap in 2019. Any suggestions, ideas, experiences, tips?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
