When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"
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agolddog wrote:
Unfortunately, they work here.
They may use the forums, but they certainly do not work here.
No, no, "here" is where I am. Not your "here". Also realized it's an iterative thing, not linear. Start out as a hack, think you've got a pretty good handle on things and have moved up. Then, a year later, you look at the code you developed when you thought you were getting a pretty good handle on things and think, "what a hack". Of course, there are some who never endeavor to improve and think they're decent developers, but really just stay on the hack level.
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No, no, "here" is where I am. Not your "here". Also realized it's an iterative thing, not linear. Start out as a hack, think you've got a pretty good handle on things and have moved up. Then, a year later, you look at the code you developed when you thought you were getting a pretty good handle on things and think, "what a hack". Of course, there are some who never endeavor to improve and think they're decent developers, but really just stay on the hack level.
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One starts with a "C", the second with a "D", the third with a "P". :rolleyes:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Of all the other replies I have gotten, and quite a few of them are in conflict with each other, yours is the only one that makes sense to me. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I repeat, "A rose by any other name..."
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
That part sounds like a marketing spin on the term "programmers". But there are practical distinctions between programmers (developers, coders, etc) and engineers. Programmers are those who know how to productively efficiently write code to accomplish a purpose. If a professional, they understand why they choose the coding solution they use for a given problem domain. Some very experienced, very knowledgeable people choose to stick to being programmers because it suits them and the type of work they want to do. As for software engineers, Merriam-Webster defines engineering (in general) as:
Quote:
a: the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people b: the design and manufacture of complex products
Software engineers are also programmers. But they look at a project beyond just the code at hand. They consider value engineering, systems requirements and limitations, the full software development life cycle, can manage a project, manage developers, do architecture, interface with customers, etc. That is not to say some programmers are not capable of doing all this, but we are talking about roles, not individuals. The reluctance to hire good software engineers is why development teams typically have a BA, a scrum master, as well as developers and QA folks. A good software engineer can replace the BA and scrum master functions and produce a better product quicker and better. Why? Because the software engineer has the BA and scrum master knowledge domains within their total knowledge domain. BAs and scrum masters do not have the software development knowledge domain within their knowledge domains. That means an inefficiency is introduced by communication and translation to BAs and scrum masters, and that leads to an accumulation of small delays, mistakes that have to be corrected, and sometimes missed deadlines. It is not about one being better than another. Software engineers need to trust the skills of their programmers, and communicate project details and status to all, as well as mentor programmers who want to grow into software engineers. Programmers who have not yet obtained the broader knowledge and experience of a good software engineer need to recognize that, and return the trust. Differences can be seen as competitive, or hierarchical. Or, they can be seen as complementary as all part of the whole.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
Programmer - Someone that positively enforces proper grammar. Developer - which sounds like Devil oper is someone who operates under H*llish conditions Coder - Cod is a fish so its a specific type of fisher person. They like cod. Full Stack - pile of pancakes or flapjacks. Analyst - going to leave that one alone... I didn't verify any of this with google, duckduckgo or bing, I just copied the letters from my keyboard and pasted them randomly on the screen to what you see now.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
Because everyone now is a programmer. You can program your phone to alert you for an event, schedule meetings store phone numbers and dial them, etc. The programming environment is the user interface. A developer actually writes the applications that can be used programmed by the average user.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
When one started to sound better and more professional than the other. The distinction is mostly a subjective one of status. Whatever looks better on your resume! ;)
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
Programmers became programmers when hackers became political and software became a commodity.
phoenixDownunder
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
When I started work, in 1972, the other two terms did not exist. I was a "computer programmer". That is what I put on my tax return and on the reentry card each time I returned from an overseas trip, and anywhere else that asked. So that is what I continued to call myself until finally, 2 years ago, I switched to "Retired." Other people over the years have referred to me as, and I have answered to "Software Developer", "Software Engineer" etc but never "Coder".
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when I was young the people behind the bench/desk at the bank were called "tellers." apparently it's insulting to call them that now. give it a few more years, "programmer" will be an insulting title too. one things for sure, the "tellers" were way less obnoxious and far more efficient than today's "customer liaison executives" or whatever they are called this week. ... 'would you like the combo pack or just your own money.'
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What do folks use now? Always know them to be tellers or cashiers etc.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
A "coder" is a semi-derogatory term for someone who can translate pseudocode (or something similar) into a programming language, more or less mechanically, without being concerned about its use or place in a larger picture. A junior programmer who either have no aspirations, or is not trusted to make any decisions about the code structure. He is the runner boy on the software development site. A "programmer" translates somewhat abstracted designs into a programming language. He makes significant decisions about how to realize the design, but the design is done by others. He is the skilled carpenter on the building site. A "software engineer" is like a construction engineer: He decides on the structures and interconnections. In a small company, he may be present on the building site, even handling the hammer (/compiler), but in a larger company he leaves the menial tasks to the coder. A "desginer" is an architect. Some architects decides on the structures and interconnections, like a software engineer, but he might as well be elevated above the physiscal construction - whether the design is realized in wood or concrete (/c++ or Python) and other real world details. A "software architect" hardly knows what a compiler is, but knows how to structure the customer's problem into subtasks that can be left to a desginer for the details. He knows what the end product should look like to the customer, whether realized as a web interface or with WPF. There are certainly no clear cuts, but great overlap. "Developer" is a diffuse term somewhere around software engineer, but it may cover a lot of the programmer's tasks, or the desgner's task. The borderlines may depend a lot on the context. In open source environments, the recognition of designer and sorfware architect skills is essentially limited to the needs of a software development context; they rarely consider it necessary to ask a professional programmer what he wants in a photo editor, a musician what he wants in a music editor. On the other hand you've got the huge companies like MS, and IBM in the old days, whose architects could care less about NTFS versus ext4 (except for the marketing aspects). I find it very useful to relate the roles in software development to similar roles in mechanical construction, like architect, engineer, carpenter, runner boy. Not everybody agrees with me, but use the terms in more arbitrary ways. So we may disagree at times.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
When I was a young programmer (30 year ago), it was something like FULL STACK DEVELOPER. I think programmers become developers about ten years ago. DEVELOPER sounds cleverly than PROGRAMMER. :-)
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When I started out it was the systems analysts who did the design and logic. All the programmer needed to do was to convert the English instructions into lines of code. So it was a fairly basic function and any idiot (me) could do it. Since then the job has developed in line with ever more sophisticated hardware and software. So now, the 'programmer' has to understand much more and use his/her skills to develop products rather than be a 'code monkey'.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
We became developers when programs became "apps". Probably when the number of people developing apps for mobile devices started to outnumber programmers writing programs for desktops.
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When I started out it was the systems analysts who did the design and logic. All the programmer needed to do was to convert the English instructions into lines of code. So it was a fairly basic function and any idiot (me) could do it. Since then the job has developed in line with ever more sophisticated hardware and software. So now, the 'programmer' has to understand much more and use his/her skills to develop products rather than be a 'code monkey'.
Being ancient enough to remember the System Analyst days, I'd modify that a little: The profession started as Programmers - that meant we understood the mystic language of computers (COBOL, Algol, Fortran etc) and could translate detailed pseudo code into something that actually worked. In the modern parlance this is also referred to as Coders. Software Engineers - an evolutionary step where the programmers were actually trusted with writing their own pseudo code and doing some design. Of course letting the business people actually meet the coal face workers was still frowned upon. Developers - The current evolutionary step where the code jockeys actually can influence how the business should be using the software, rather than being told what to write.
An opinion is an opinion, it's my right to be wrong.
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I think it's because: - people don't know what your title means, - but it sounds pretty really important so you get to keep that job just in case something that matters breaks if you weren't there.
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You are not implying that there's anything wrong with being a 'code monkey'. :thumbsup:. I am implying that I like being a 'code monkey'. :thumbsup:.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
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You are not implying that there's anything wrong with being a 'code monkey'. :thumbsup:. I am implying that I like being a 'code monkey'. :thumbsup:.
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When did we become "Developers" rather than "Programmers"? :confused::confused: And what the he*l are "Coders" and what is the difference? :confused::confused:
A rose by any other name.... something, something, something
As someone working solo on a big project "developer" seems to fit better than just "programmer". In addition to programming I do UI/UX design, feature planning, testing, artwork, and even handle support email. As to "programmer" vs "coder", I can think of a couple of possible explanations. Some programmers are anal about efficiency. Clearly, "coder" is much more efficient than "programmer". Alternatively, given some of the "coders" I've known, it could just be that it's not as tricky to spell as "programmer".