Worldometer
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
most probably reasonably efficient.
That's debatable. But why not stop driving cars? I am putting everyone else's life at risk by driving a car (well not me of course, I'm a very good driver). And Covid-19 is not the only infectious disease I could be carrying so why not mask forever? Why not close down McDonald's because it is killing people? Tobacco? Alcohol? My point is the response to COVID-19 has been a million times that of our response to every other dangerous thing in life, many of those dangers much more threatening than COVID. I just want to see equal treatment of dangers. ;)
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
ZurdoDev wrote:
That's debatable.
Everything is debatable, Look at the short video in an article I posted about here: The Lounge[^] Remember that it isn't about protecting you, it's about protecting others.
ZurdoDev wrote:
so why not mask forever
Actually...whenever you're having a cold or similar symptoms, you should, not just now, but always. It doesn't cost you anything, but could save someone else. This is what I'm talking about, anything that is simple low cost and does not disrupt society should be done. Everything else should be up for a deeper discussion.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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ZurdoDev wrote:
That's debatable.
Everything is debatable, Look at the short video in an article I posted about here: The Lounge[^] Remember that it isn't about protecting you, it's about protecting others.
ZurdoDev wrote:
so why not mask forever
Actually...whenever you're having a cold or similar symptoms, you should, not just now, but always. It doesn't cost you anything, but could save someone else. This is what I'm talking about, anything that is simple low cost and does not disrupt society should be done. Everything else should be up for a deeper discussion.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Everything is debatable, Look at the short video in an article I posted about here: The Lounge[^]
Exactly my point. There are articles claiming that this particular virus comes from the bottom of the stomach so the spittle from just talking won't have the virus in it. Sneezing or coughing might.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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This was exemplified in one article commenting it: If a patient with covid-19 has a heart attack and dies from the heart attack, you may say that was the cause of death. But the covid-19 probably had weakened him significantly - maybe he could have survived the heart attack if he hadn't had the covid-19. If covid-19 was the underlying cause for his body's inability to handle the heart attack, should it then be counted as a covid-19 death even though the "direct" cause was the heart attack? A similar problem: In this country, about 1000 people die from flu every year. Because of the corona restrictions, we have had very little spreading of flu this spring, so we have fewer people dying from it. A share of those who die from covid-19 would probably have died from the flu, but covid-19 protected them from that death, and instead let them die from covid-19. How should we count that? This article stated that different countries and states have very different ways of classifying deaths. Numeric figures other than deaths are also collected according to varying practices: Yesterday, I learned that in Norway, when you are diagnosed with covid-19, you are counted for the "Total Cases". If you do not go to hospital, but stay at home and recover by yourself, there is no system for registering that you have recovered; that is only counted for those recovering in hospital. So you will forever be considered an "active case" e.g. in the Worldometer survey, even the day corona virus is totally extinguished. For comparing it to another virus, the measles: Before a vaccine was developed, we "did it the Swedish way", building up a herd immunity. Apparently, in Norwegian tribes, those with a genetic disposition for dying from measles had done so hundreds of years ago; kids could handle it. So whenever a kid caught measles, all his friends who had not yet suffered through it came to visit him to get infected, "to get it over with". We knew that catching it as an adult was far more dangerous. Official statistics say that every year (before the vaccine), 30,000 cases of measles were reported. That is about half of the population; approx 60,000 children are born every year. But... First, when I was a kid, everybody caught measles sooner or later. Second: It was a common thing, expected and usually handled at home. Why would we report it to the health authorities? How would we report it? I am far from sure that I am one of the 30,000 reported the year when it was my turn! I am quite sure that there w
Member 7989122 wrote:
Before a vaccine was developed, we "did it the Swedish way"
I've been reading a lot on that in foreign news. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. The "Swedish way" isn't about herd immunity, it's about having measures that are sustainable for a very long time. "Flattening the curve" doesn't stop the population from getting the virus, it postpones it, either until we've reached herd immunity the natural way or we have a vaccine. Whichever comes first.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Nelek wrote:
I suppose you want to say "last year", as "this year" is not ended yet.
Actually, the website says "this year" so I assume that's 1.5 million deaths from smoking in a little under four months. That seems about right, according to Fast Facts | Fact Sheets | Smoking & Tobacco Use | CDC[^] which states 7 million deaths per year. The #1 preventable cause of death. Yet we do nothing. Well, that's not completely true, there are anti-smoking laws. But it's nothing compared to what we're doing against the far less deadly COVID-19. Here's a comparable website for alcohol: Alcohol Facts and Statistics | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)[^] (although it's USA specific). "making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States. The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity." According to the WHO alcohol causes 5 million deaths a year worldwide[^]. Maybe people "choose" to smoke, drink or eat unhealthy so we'll allow it. I have no data on deaths from passive smokers or casualties from drunk drivers. So I wonder, if we can fight COVID-19 so vigorously and are apparently willing to sacrifice the economy and many more lives to save statistically few lives, why can't we do the same with tobacco, unhealthy food and alcohol? :confused: I guess COVID-19 floods the intensive care while the others do not and that makes all the difference?
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Migrating Applications to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
French study suggests smokers at lower risk of getting coronavirus[^]
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Just curious: Is the www.worldometers.info[^] website available in the USA?
Look at all the trouble you caused by posting this! :laugh:
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
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Look at all the trouble you caused by posting this! :laugh:
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
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Member 7989122 wrote:
Answers covered a wider range of topics than I expected.
Pretty sure that was exactly why you asked it. Why else would you ask if a site is available in the US or not? Why wouldn't it be?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Member 7989122 wrote:
Answers covered a wider range of topics than I expected.
Pretty sure that was exactly why you asked it. Why else would you ask if a site is available in the US or not? Why wouldn't it be?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Sometimes you get the impression that the information available on the web site is not commonly known in the USA. But that might be moving into politics, which we are not supposed to do.
Member 7989122 wrote:
Sometimes you get the impression that the information available on the web site is not commonly known in the USA.
It's just some numbers. They don't really mean much. You can't just straightly compare one number to another.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Member 7989122 wrote:
Sometimes you get the impression that the information available on the web site is not commonly known in the USA.
It's just some numbers. They don't really mean much. You can't just straightly compare one number to another.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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1,539,153 Deaths caused by smoking this year 770,064 Deaths caused by alcohol this year 1,692,170,966 Overweight people in the world 755,020,768 Obese people in the world Three very unnecessary products, tobacco, alcohol and fast food, take more lives than COVID-19 ever will. When will they be banned? When are we shutting down the economy for those? I know, the US already tried that with alcohol, but that's about a 100 years ago (not that I think it would be successful now). Basically, what we're saying is that 177,000 deaths from COVID-19 is a real crisis, but 1,539,153 deaths from smoking (that's more than eight times as many) is fine. The current measures will result in an economic crisis of proportions that we haven't seen before. The 2008 crisis alone took more lives than COVID-19. I guess more deaths is a fair price to save fewer lives. I'm just a bit confused by the math of it all :confused: Of course all of this is less about numbers than it is about "how we feel".
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Migrating Applications to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
There IS a difference, of course. Smoking, Drinking, and to a lesser extent Obesity are personal choices. You can decide not to smoke or drink, or decide to go on a diet. In other words, these are lifestyle choices. Covid-19 is not such a thing. Closing down the economy to stop smoking and drinking would in all likelyhood be counterproductive. Closing down the economy to avoid close social interaction will reduce the transmission of Covid-19. The maths of it is trivial and should not need explaining to software engineers. :)
Bram van Kampen
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Just curious: Is the www.worldometers.info[^] website available in the USA?
One of the graphs I have never seen is the deaths by age group. Seems like mother nature is targeting the those who can no longer reproduce!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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There IS a difference, of course. Smoking, Drinking, and to a lesser extent Obesity are personal choices. You can decide not to smoke or drink, or decide to go on a diet. In other words, these are lifestyle choices. Covid-19 is not such a thing. Closing down the economy to stop smoking and drinking would in all likelyhood be counterproductive. Closing down the economy to avoid close social interaction will reduce the transmission of Covid-19. The maths of it is trivial and should not need explaining to software engineers. :)
Bram van Kampen
I went out on a wrong promise, saving as much lives as possible. The premise should've been, saving my life and those I love as much as possible. In my boundless naivety I assumed we were trying to make the world a better place :sigh:
Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Migrating Applications to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly
