People who complain about Microsoft are like...
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They must be on vanilla systems with no updated drivers and no human input, with no connection to the outside world. :)
No connection to the outside world, yes. It is internally used servers. A webserver will never get this kind of uptime because of all the hotfixes it need every once in a while... No human input, err..., they are servers. How often do you use the keyboard on a server? No updated drivers, well, if I have an Exchange Server or a SQL Server, why do I want to update drivers when the server runs perfectly fine? But my point is, the Windows Servers runs perfectly fine without being rebooted all the time! - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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One big problem today is that people mix C with C++ its okey some times, but when you writing apps in Windows you aint always get a great result when mixing C with C++! One shall use "new" insted of "malloc" etc etc. Then we have a new set of lib's in the std neamespace so old "new" is not reacting as the new one! More "try" and "catch" less "I think its working?" IMHO Jarek
It was only about new/delete. But, anyway, this is not the main idea. The fact was the programmer (?) was too lazy to debug the code. For sure he/seh tried to delete more than allocated, or to delete a 0xcdcdcdcd pointer, or something like this. If you want to avoid these malloc/delete, new/free, Local, Global etc., you have always the alternative of COM allocator CoGetMalloc...
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Feel like a nice long read this fine Sunday morning? Try staying awake long enough to read through this discussion thread (note, it is long, very very long). It has been going on since February, but it serves as a good example of Microsoft’s bad choice of not going to press to counter these things when the rumours first emerged. The damage was already done six months ago, and I doubt many of those 14 year olds will back down now. In summary: A large majority of the contributors to the debate seem to have accepted the following as fact, and were openly preaching them: * Windows XP requires registration * Windows XP is .NET * Windows XP can only be rented (this view was shared by many people. Too many) * Windows XP only has the cartoony interface * Office XP can only be rented * Upgrades to new versions should be free (ha – tell that one to my local car dealer) * .NET is the new version of Windows * Windows XP is for home users only, “who do not have the technical expertise to maintain a full-fledged operating system”. * Microsoft always makes crappy, incompatible hardware drivers, which are the main reason Windows is so unstable. * Site licenses of Windows and Office XP will require activation – no, sorry, registration. I don’t think anyone drew the line between activation and registration until the last few pages. * Microsoft are trying to prevent you from installing Windows XP on all your home PC’s. They want you to buy a new copy for each machine. Heaven forbid such a thing. * You need to be connected to the Internet to use Word XP. As in connected to type anything. * You will require an Internet connection to use a web service. And next thing you know, you’ll need a connection to surf the net! * Registration will cost $$$. I guess they meant activation. One guy even talked about starting a "ribbon" style campaign to educate people about Windows XP. I sure hope he didn’t succeed. And now for the best bits:
Issues in Windows 98SE/2k: 1. 98: Windows won't shut down. It hangs. 2. 98: The Start button doesn't say "Start." It is a random mix of colors that change every time it's clicked. 3. 98 and 2k: Icons randomly disguise themselves as other icons. 4. 2k: Explorer crashes during idle time. The desktop color is displayed for a few seconds before the applications reappear. 5. 2k: The desktop refuses to repaint itself. 6. 2k: The cursor is repl
after 12 hours of trying to install fscking WinNT on a blank system, i have to say: MS software is crap. right now, i'm going on my tenth total new install and each time, just when i think i'm going to be able to finish, some driver or app wil fsck up the OS so bad that i can't even launch programs - all i get is a message about some missing symbol in kernel32. yeah, great stuff. :( -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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after 12 hours of trying to install fscking WinNT on a blank system, i have to say: MS software is crap. right now, i'm going on my tenth total new install and each time, just when i think i'm going to be able to finish, some driver or app wil fsck up the OS so bad that i can't even launch programs - all i get is a message about some missing symbol in kernel32. yeah, great stuff. :( -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
What is the errormessage? Maybe it's just a single driver that corrupts the entire system... Anyway, NT 4.0 is from 1996, it's a looong time in this business, try with a Linux from 1996, do you thing it's more easy? To make a perfectly running NT 4.0 takes some "touch" with the system, Win2k is a lot more easy... (no offence, really) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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after 12 hours of trying to install fscking WinNT on a blank system, i have to say: MS software is crap. right now, i'm going on my tenth total new install and each time, just when i think i'm going to be able to finish, some driver or app wil fsck up the OS so bad that i can't even launch programs - all i get is a message about some missing symbol in kernel32. yeah, great stuff. :( -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
12 Hours? Gee, if you were installing Linux, you probably wouldn't start calling it crap until about after 100+ hours of trying to get it work right. Of course, god forbid you might be using crap hardware and junk 3rd party drivers. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
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It's been my experience that among the general net population (ie, those that post in public message boards) no one gets their panties in a bunch like Linux and anti-MS zealots do. It's like they just can't sleep at night knowing there's someone on the planet who hasn't been enlightened and gone over to the light side of Linux. Conversely, people who use only Windows don't care about Linux. So there are no MS zealots. Again, in my experience. --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ You are the weakest link, GOODBYE!
I'd have to agree with that. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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...since our servers, for example, are alive and running (with an exception, thanks to electric power company :( ) from 5? 6 months? True, there were seevral restarts (but that's because some patches and upgrades were applied and Windows requires restart. This is, indeed, unpleasant, but is something else). And these servers hosts SQL Servers, IIS, Exchange, Terminal Server, schedulers, printers - that means everything you need for a Windows NT/2000 server to get into trouble :)... And that's not all. Also some guys from our company - not me, of course :) - are testing NT services, network managers, IP tracers, remote system editing tools, user and printers manager, desktop switchers, an economical software - which is not big, but it has several thousands windows inside :) - , all of us perform huge print jobs etc. etc. etc. (Let's not forget the Starcraft combats during work time). Also, we have here Windows 2000 workstations (with no service packs, or with SP1, or with SP2) and servers, NT 4 workstations and servers with all kind of service packs, dual boot NT/98 machines, 95, 95 OSR2, 98, 98 SE workstations (did I forgot something?). We are all running happily programs like DOS/4GW Heretic shareware (I don't want to know how is able to run on a W2K machine :) - and I finished the first episode :)) I believe that over 90% of these 'restart' (??) problems are caused by wrong installation or configuration, misunderstandings or bad using... A visit - from time to time - on http://www.ntfaq.com/ - shows (for me, at least) how stupid I was (hope I'm not still stupid...), how I did not used help, read documentations and articles etc. Example? RedCode removal. After two days or installing Exchange, running isinteg and eseutil, a simple visit to MS website offered me the 5 minutes solution to get rid of RedCode 2. 'What's worst than a stupid person? A stupid person that is also an administrator' PS Speaking of 'restarting engineers': there are also 'restarting programmers'. A friend of mine told me how a programmer avoided to call delete for previously allocated memory. Of course, a simple run of BoundsChecker showed a zillion of memory leaks. Asked 'why you don't free the memory?', the man replied: 'because the program crashes'. In this way, the restart seems, indeed, the one and only solution. And that is valid also for people like him that creates a font and don't "DeleteObject" it, calls NetApi_XXX and forget to NetApiBufferFree, or pMalloc->Release(), or whatever you have in mind. X|
A visit - from time to time - on http://www.ntfaq.com/ - shows (for me, at least) how stupid I was (hope I'm not still stupid...), how I did not used help, read documentations and articles etc. That is the case with me too :-O. I spent hours searhcing the Microsoft KB, and the web in general, trying to figure out how to use Microsoft Fax for a guy from another message board. Only at the last minute did it orure to me to press F1 and search the Windows Help file! And low and behold, there was everything I needed. I think it should be made mandatory to read the entire Windows documentation set to at least Intermediate standard before you can run the installation. When I think of my home PC of a few years ago, I am horrified that I would had even considered configurinign half the stuff they way I did, and i'm even more surprised it even worked! David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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after 12 hours of trying to install fscking WinNT on a blank system, i have to say: MS software is crap. right now, i'm going on my tenth total new install and each time, just when i think i'm going to be able to finish, some driver or app wil fsck up the OS so bad that i can't even launch programs - all i get is a message about some missing symbol in kernel32. yeah, great stuff. :( -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
after 12 hours of trying to install fscking WinNT on a blank system, i have to say: MS software is crap. So, based on your experience with one of their products, eveything Microsoft release is crap? So because my Dad's old XJS came with an internal problem with the Anti-theft system (which prevented it from beign driven on more than one occasion), all Jaguars must, by your definition, be crap? I better not place that order for a platinum coloured XKR convertible then, as it's sure to be crap. (not that I could afford one at the moment, unfortunately) All I can offer in help to your problem, is the helpful suggestion of RTFM ;). And regaring the title of your message, I am neither for or against Microsoft, but I am for good products, and I am fed up with the constant "M$ is crap" I read everywhere. From my experience (and I've hasd the ups and the downs), Microsoft produce genuinly reliable and stable products. It's all too easy to state "M$ is crap", but when you quiz these guys further, they almost always disappear before the conversation ends... Hmmm, I wonder why. By all means complain about a product, but you can't judge a company based on one product. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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David, I always *love* your opinions :) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
Anders, I always *love* to entertain :) David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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When a Linux user screws up Windows, it is because Windows is a sucky operating system. When a Linux user screws up Linux, it is because he made a mistake. I did some consulting for GA Tech and it was really funny. They were trying to write their Windows application as if it was a Unix system. Wow, what a shock, tons of problems. I came in there and rewrote the Unix crap to Windows and WOW, what a shock, things started working just fine. As far as Windows not being able to do mission critical operations, WRONG!!! Windows is use in a HUGE number of mission critical applications. It took over industrial automation. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
They were trying to write their Windows application as if it was a Unix system. Wow, what a shock, tons of problems. <gripe> Heh. I feel your pain, man. I just finished testing a Windows app written by Unix guys. They provided all kinds of little command line utilities I had to run from a DOS prompt, copy the text, and then paste into a dialog box of the main application. Sure, it may be more efficient for them, but what a shift of paradigms! </gripe> Jon Sagara Sagara Software
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I will only focus on the rebooting - it is true that companies are regularly rebooting the windows based servers to ensure proper operation. I think it is once a week or so - and it seems to be the recommended by M$ procedure actually.
And to make sure no one runs their servers longer than a few weeks without rebooting they just release critical updates as often as possible :)
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after 12 hours of trying to install fscking WinNT on a blank system, i have to say: MS software is crap. So, based on your experience with one of their products, eveything Microsoft release is crap? So because my Dad's old XJS came with an internal problem with the Anti-theft system (which prevented it from beign driven on more than one occasion), all Jaguars must, by your definition, be crap? I better not place that order for a platinum coloured XKR convertible then, as it's sure to be crap. (not that I could afford one at the moment, unfortunately) All I can offer in help to your problem, is the helpful suggestion of RTFM ;). And regaring the title of your message, I am neither for or against Microsoft, but I am for good products, and I am fed up with the constant "M$ is crap" I read everywhere. From my experience (and I've hasd the ups and the downs), Microsoft produce genuinly reliable and stable products. It's all too easy to state "M$ is crap", but when you quiz these guys further, they almost always disappear before the conversation ends... Hmmm, I wonder why. By all means complain about a product, but you can't judge a company based on one product. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
RTFM - yeah, OK. if you'd like, i can relate to you the whole reason i'm trying to install NT (it involves 95,98 2K and the horrible OEM license stuff). now i've NT to the point where it just complains about the Workstation service not starting. yay. i work with MS stuff 8-12 hours a day every day (weekends, usually too). yeah, it's generally OK - as long as you don't touch anything, just leave it the way Dell set it up and don't try crazy things like upgrading DirectX or a video driver. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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What is the errormessage? Maybe it's just a single driver that corrupts the entire system... Anyway, NT 4.0 is from 1996, it's a looong time in this business, try with a Linux from 1996, do you thing it's more easy? To make a perfectly running NT 4.0 takes some "touch" with the system, Win2k is a lot more easy... (no offence, really) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
entry point CreateToolhelp32Snapshot not found in Kernel32. i think it is a driver issue. but, i know i've put the same driver on there in the past. i just need to figure out the magic service-pack/driver/office install order. :) -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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RTFM - yeah, OK. if you'd like, i can relate to you the whole reason i'm trying to install NT (it involves 95,98 2K and the horrible OEM license stuff). now i've NT to the point where it just complains about the Workstation service not starting. yay. i work with MS stuff 8-12 hours a day every day (weekends, usually too). yeah, it's generally OK - as long as you don't touch anything, just leave it the way Dell set it up and don't try crazy things like upgrading DirectX or a video driver. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
now i've NT to the point where it just complains about the Workstation service not starting. I had this problem before. Installing SP6a fixed it right away. Jon Sagara Sagara Software
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12 Hours? Gee, if you were installing Linux, you probably wouldn't start calling it crap until about after 100+ hours of trying to get it work right. Of course, god forbid you might be using crap hardware and junk 3rd party drivers. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
it's a perfectly respectable Micron system (from when they were still making good stuff). and yeah, linux is crap, too (except for the wonderful command line text processing stuff). -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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RTFM - yeah, OK. if you'd like, i can relate to you the whole reason i'm trying to install NT (it involves 95,98 2K and the horrible OEM license stuff). now i've NT to the point where it just complains about the Workstation service not starting. yay. i work with MS stuff 8-12 hours a day every day (weekends, usually too). yeah, it's generally OK - as long as you don't touch anything, just leave it the way Dell set it up and don't try crazy things like upgrading DirectX or a video driver. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
You seem to have missed the smilie I strategically inserted in a possition to turn the statement into lighthearted humor. I never meant for you to take it seriously. And you have a Dell machine? Why not just call up the support guys and let them have a go over the phone. You did buy/upgrade the support option didn't you? I mean with Windows being so unstable and all :). (<< jk) David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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You seem to have missed the smilie I strategically inserted in a possition to turn the statement into lighthearted humor. I never meant for you to take it seriously. And you have a Dell machine? Why not just call up the support guys and let them have a go over the phone. You did buy/upgrade the support option didn't you? I mean with Windows being so unstable and all :). (<< jk) David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
yeah, guess i did miss that smiley. :) my small point is this: windows is far from perfect. and to me that means it's not worthy of praise. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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yeah, guess i did miss that smiley. :) my small point is this: windows is far from perfect. and to me that means it's not worthy of praise. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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RTFM - yeah, OK. if you'd like, i can relate to you the whole reason i'm trying to install NT (it involves 95,98 2K and the horrible OEM license stuff). now i've NT to the point where it just complains about the Workstation service not starting. yay. i work with MS stuff 8-12 hours a day every day (weekends, usually too). yeah, it's generally OK - as long as you don't touch anything, just leave it the way Dell set it up and don't try crazy things like upgrading DirectX or a video driver. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
I have (or at least I had) almost all NT 4 with all service packs (or without). But Workstation service was ok. (At least if you did not changed the account under this service is to be run). Did you examine Event Viewer? This is another incredible useful errors explanations' source, often misused and underrealized. 'Chief, can we remove ReportEvent from our service?' 'Why??' 'I just asked the customer X what's the latest in event viewer.' 'And what he says?' 'My daughter's wedding, why?'