Will software engineers ever stop being in demand?
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Not necessarily, some people are just sloppy or don't care ;) I'm ehhh... very experienced :laugh: I stopped an entire factory with a SQL update once, most "experiencing" minute of my career X|
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On my first job after graduating college, one thing I was asked to develop was a script to stop and restart database... Yes, I accidentally tested it in production. And it worked.
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There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created. The other school of thought is hard to understand because the programmers are laughing so hard they can’t talk. Source: Carey Aydelotte's answer to Will software engineers ever stop being in demand? - Quora[^] :laugh:
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Sander Rossel wrote:
programmers will program themselves out of a job field.
I remember 20+ years ago thinking that as the only programmer/developer/title-Dejour in a startup that eventually, the codebase/applications would be complete and perfect and I could sit back, relax, and finally enjoy the results of those 12-14 hour days and weekends. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: How naive I was! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: My experience is that the only projects that are truly done are those not in use. The more I create, the more I'm responsible for. I'm not working myself out of a job, I'm creating more work for myself at least! :laugh: If you are referring to those tools that let you hook up any database and create stunning dashboards and drill-down reports in 5 minutes, we have explored a half-dozen of those. They all tended to create huge amounts of boilerplate/dependencies and unfortunately, for all but the simplest things, still required me to create views/sprocs/etc. to make anything useful. Those were mostly dead ends for us...a few are still are still in use but slated for replacement since no one here still has those tools installed.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse "Hope is contagious"
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Not necessarily, some people are just sloppy or don't care ;) I'm ehhh... very experienced :laugh: I stopped an entire factory with a SQL update once, most "experiencing" minute of my career X|
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Flawlessly if the spec is unambiguous. Otherwise you get...something, though you could argue that the AI should refuse to write the code in that case.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.You don't see the contradiction in that assumption? If we already knew exactly what to do in every case, we would not need an AI. If we don't know, we better leave the AI some room to learn, and don't hard code our incomplete ideas into it. The problem is that no AI up to now is aware enough to recognize insufficient results of this complexity, and much less is then able to decide on a reasonable course of action. Natural stupidity is one thing, but artificial stupidity can be even more entertaining.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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You don't see the contradiction in that assumption? If we already knew exactly what to do in every case, we would not need an AI. If we don't know, we better leave the AI some room to learn, and don't hard code our incomplete ideas into it. The problem is that no AI up to now is aware enough to recognize insufficient results of this complexity, and much less is then able to decide on a reasonable course of action. Natural stupidity is one thing, but artificial stupidity can be even more entertaining.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
I didn't see a contradiction. I was assuming that the AI was for generating code from a natural language spec, not for helping with the spec itself. But because the AI has to understand the spec, it should complain if the spec is incomplete.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
I didn't see a contradiction. I was assuming that the AI was for generating code from a natural language spec, not for helping with the spec itself. But because the AI has to understand the spec, it should complain if the spec is incomplete.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.And how do your train your AI to do that without already knowing how to do that?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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And how do your train your AI to do that without already knowing how to do that?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
I don't know how to train it. I was just assuming that it existed. Maybe it would be trained similar to Google Translate, which is constantly improving. But it would be even far more complex than that, so maybe it will never exist.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
Greg Utas wrote:
though you could argue that the AI should refuse to write the code in that case
If real-life developers can't get away with that attitude today, why should an AI in the future?
Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. (Attributed to Einstein)
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I don't know how to train it. I was just assuming that it existed. Maybe it would be trained similar to Google Translate, which is constantly improving. But it would be even far more complex than that, so maybe it will never exist.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Never say never, but it is not going to be so easy as some people would like it to be. And in the end it will be questionable if the whole effort is worth the results. It might be easier to use the original for a while longer than to create a machine in our own image.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Everybody has an overinflated sense of importance. Most devs I've met throughout in my career at least are rather humble about their abilities. Which is the exact opposite of managers.
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There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created. The other school of thought is hard to understand because the programmers are laughing so hard they can’t talk. Source: Carey Aydelotte's answer to Will software engineers ever stop being in demand? - Quora[^] :laugh:
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Managers always think they are "masters of the universe" and everyone but them will go obsolete. In the end it is they who will probably find themselves out of jobs as the future won't need them anymore...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created. The other school of thought is hard to understand because the programmers are laughing so hard they can’t talk. Source: Carey Aydelotte's answer to Will software engineers ever stop being in demand? - Quora[^] :laugh:
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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Greg Utas wrote:
though you could argue that the AI should refuse to write the code in that case
If real-life developers can't get away with that attitude today, why should an AI in the future?
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On my first job after graduating college, one thing I was asked to develop was a script to stop and restart database... Yes, I accidentally tested it in production. And it worked.
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I think that the closer you get to any complex field, the more you know how much you don't know - how individual situations require unique solutions. I mean for those without a god complex, obv.
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That makes me think of this old song (probably from before your time :-\ ):
Quote:
Girls are dancing all around them just for me And the party wouldn't swing if not for me I've made you hearts jump, I've caused a heat I'm in demand I am the beat
I'd forgotten about that track. Now I've got an earworm. It was released a couple of years after I left school.
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There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created. The other school of thought is hard to understand because the programmers are laughing so hard they can’t talk. Source: Carey Aydelotte's answer to Will software engineers ever stop being in demand? - Quora[^] :laugh:
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maker makes a shovel 100 workers get a shovel each. 101 people working. shovel maker than makes a mechnical digger. Does the work of 100 shovel workers. but digger opens a new job for the guy with flags and on-call repair guy 4 people have jobs. Digger maker makes a machine that can make the digger for them, all on it's own. The digger maker is out of a job now, and is so good, the repair guy is out of a job. but a new job opens, the nut-job that has to figure out how to fix the automated digger maker. 3 people have jobs. conclusion: automated code tools all great. More work with fewer people, but will likely open other jobs that we have not yet considered. Maybe only fewer people needed in total, but not 0 people. The real threat, is the poor rubber duck that might be out of a job.
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There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created. The other school of thought is hard to understand because the programmers are laughing so hard they can’t talk. Source: Carey Aydelotte's answer to Will software engineers ever stop being in demand? - Quora[^] :laugh:
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You know I kinda thought we Videogame developers shot ourselves in the foot with the commercialization (and then opensourcing) of powerful game engines...back in 2012. 10 years later I've only seen script kiddies think they're programmers and very lame games come to market. I'm not saying all future Shigeru Miyamoto's have to have intimate knowledge of the bare metal, but it does help to know what sinful fun you can get away with making. I have to conclude that people who love getting their hands dirty and can fix what they created...will always be the gods the computer world pray to whilst they live. A.I. replacing genius, in my lifetime, is little more than a funny joke.
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There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created. The other school of thought is hard to understand because the programmers are laughing so hard they can’t talk. Source: Carey Aydelotte's answer to Will software engineers ever stop being in demand? - Quora[^] :laugh:
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Sander Rossel wrote:
There are two schools of thought. Those with a background in business see developers as commodities and fully believe that programmers will program themselves out of a job field. The idea is that in some distant future, jobs like project manager, product manager, and marketing manager will still be critical but programmers themselves will be extinct as a result of the tools they created.
Which is a train of thought that has existed as long as computers existed in any real form. Which went hand in hand for the same amount of time with the claim that in 'just a few years' everyone will have a robot that will do your housework and other day to day chores. Myself I am still holding out for the faster than light space ship. But I suspect that outside of movies none of those will ever exist.
