I love my country and my language, but...
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Sander Rossel wrote:
I've noticed many websites and services are translating to Dutch.
French-Canadian here, living in Ontario. I despise having to use the French version of Windows. Or even just using a French keyboard where everything but the A-Z keys have been remapped to complete non-sense locations.
Quote:
The Terminator is suddenly listed as "De uitroeier" and Star Wars is now called "De sterrenoorlogen
When I learned French in elementary school, I remember being told you never, ever translate proper nouns. Yet (pet peeve of mine) stuff coming out of the province of Quebec (where the majority speaks French) constantly break that rule. The belief over there, as I understand it, is that if you learn English, your knowledge of French will mysteriously drip out of your ears. Pope Benedict was known as "Benoit XVI". Because "Benedict" sounds too English, y'know? Well, no, it's actually derived from the latin Benedictus. So you've managed to make yourself look like a fool in the process. Beijing is still being called Pékin. I guess they never got the memo from decades ago. I suppose it sounds too English? Well, no, it's Chinese. They insist on spelling Vladimir Putin's last name as "Poutine", which is French fries served with cheese curds and brown gravy. "Putin" in French is slang for hooker, but if only they pronounced it like Putin himself does, nobody but the most childish idiots would even make the connection. They get bent out of shape when someone mispronounces "Quebec" (how disrespectful!) but they go the extra mile at every opportunity to dump all over anything that isn't French. Then claim they're the most tolerant province in Canada. Sorry, I'm sure I had a point to make...
Us Europeans hate the French for the exact same reasons :laugh: That said, the English call Den Haag The Hague, which sounds nothing like Den Haag... And we translate names too. For example, Hermoine Granger (from Harry Potter) is known as Hermelien Griffel over here (which would translate back to something as "Ermine Scribe", which is way better than the original). In fact, I prefer the Dutch Harry Potter over the English one because it's just so well translated. Diagon alley is Wegisweg, which translates to Road-is-gone (road and gone are the same word in Dutch). The United States is De Verenigde Staten (which is a literal translation), Finland is also Finland in Dutch, but Suomi in Finnish (so why don't we call it Suomi too?). I don't think we do it often, but we do it.
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Thank you all for a lively and entertaining discussion in which I learned more Dutch words than in all my travels through your land. I'm still left with one question (I had it from the times I went to Netherlands): why to you guys insist on using Dutch? I haven't found anybody who speaks less than perfect English and very few who don't have a very good command of French. I'm told that a lot speak also German or Spanish. So why the Dutch? Is it just to have a secret language to use between yourselves, some kind of Khuzdul of the flat lands? And in that case why publish English-Dutch dictionaries? Was that the work of a traitor who let the inner names escape? :)
Mircea
That's funny, I know many Dutch who are terrible at English. Especially older people. Even I wouldn't be able to fully and fluently express myself in an English conversation, even when I read and write it daily. I don't know where you heard about French and German, but that's a lie. We get both in school, but we forget both as soon as we passed (or dropped) the subject :laugh: We know some words and sentences, but that's about it. Although more people speak German than French, especially near the border (of course). Je m'apelle Sander Rossel :-\ ICH BIN SANDER ROSSEL!!! :mad: That's about as good as my French and German are going to get :D
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Thank you all for a lively and entertaining discussion in which I learned more Dutch words than in all my travels through your land. I'm still left with one question (I had it from the times I went to Netherlands): why to you guys insist on using Dutch? I haven't found anybody who speaks less than perfect English and very few who don't have a very good command of French. I'm told that a lot speak also German or Spanish. So why the Dutch? Is it just to have a secret language to use between yourselves, some kind of Khuzdul of the flat lands? And in that case why publish English-Dutch dictionaries? Was that the work of a traitor who let the inner names escape? :)
Mircea
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
Was that the work of a traitor who let the inner names escape?
They burn him/her/it in effigy every New Year's Eve. It's their equivalent of the UK's [Guy Fawkes Night](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy\_Fawkes\_Night) :)
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
Is it just to have a secret language to use between yourselves
Every country needs a local language that the tourists don't understand. How else are the locals going to comment on the stupidity, unreasonableness, etc. of the tourists without offending them?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Well, originally it came from loading bytes (From a tape?) into the memory. I can see the parable with the truck. What would have been a better translation?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Laden, which could at least mean both :laugh:
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Mircea Neacsu wrote:
Was that the work of a traitor who let the inner names escape?
They burn him/her/it in effigy every New Year's Eve. It's their equivalent of the UK's [Guy Fawkes Night](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy\_Fawkes\_Night) :)
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
Is it just to have a secret language to use between yourselves
Every country needs a local language that the tourists don't understand. How else are the locals going to comment on the stupidity, unreasonableness, etc. of the tourists without offending them?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
Every country needs a local language that the tourists don't understand.
Now here's a question: what would Americans use for all those stupid and rude Europeans... wait a sec... something is wrong :laugh:
Mircea
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That's what happens when you win a major conflict (WWII) and then spend your resources rebuilding the conflict zone (Europe).
That's what I wanted to say but couldn't think of a not-smug or not-snarky way to do it.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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That's funny, I know many Dutch who are terrible at English. Especially older people. Even I wouldn't be able to fully and fluently express myself in an English conversation, even when I read and write it daily. I don't know where you heard about French and German, but that's a lie. We get both in school, but we forget both as soon as we passed (or dropped) the subject :laugh: We know some words and sentences, but that's about it. Although more people speak German than French, especially near the border (of course). Je m'apelle Sander Rossel :-\ ICH BIN SANDER ROSSEL!!! :mad: That's about as good as my French and German are going to get :D
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I've noticed many websites and services are translating to Dutch. I get it from a user's point of view, but for technical stuff it's just confusing and some things just don't need to be translated. Clients often have a Dutch Windows and googling for Dutch error messages is already painful enough. But now, Azure suddenly defaults to Dutch. My subscriptions are now "abonnementen" and storage accounts are now called "opslagaccounts". Meanwhile, an App Service is still an App Service and a load balancer is still a load balancer. So how the heck am I ever going to find a "sleutelkluis" (key vault)!? It's pretty difficult to talk about Azure with others who are on Dutch because I know the English terms and now I have to guess what they translated it to ("sleutelkluis" isn't a common word and I don't think "opslagaccount" is an existing word at all). At least I found how to return it to English :~ IMDb goes the extra mile. The Terminator is suddenly listed as "De uitroeier" and Star Wars is now called "De sterrenoorlogen" :~ When did someone ever call the movies that!? X| I know there's a Dutch version of Star Wars, but it's rare, and I don't know about Terminator... Only the first movies got a translated title. Also, no one will know what you'll talk about if you mention "De 12 gezworenen" (12 Angry Men, translated as The 12 Jurors). Trello just asked me if I wanted to switch to Dutch. NO I DON'T! X|
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The problem is not translation per se, but poor, inappropriate translation. The only other option is to use a common language, with the result that English (in its corrupt USian form) is taking over the world. :sigh:
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
...English (in its corrupt USian form)
Hey, them's fightin' words! :laugh: Our English is a variety of natural evolutions of British English, not a corruption. Now, our politicians, on the other hand...
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
...English (in its corrupt USian form)
Hey, them's fightin' words! :laugh: Our English is a variety of natural evolutions of British English, not a corruption. Now, our politicians, on the other hand...
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
TNCaver wrote:
Our English is a variety of natural evolutions of British English
That was true up until the last few decades, when US English started following its own path. When speaking to USian colleagues, there are times when I must pause for a moment until I realize what they meant. That doesn't usually happen with other native English speakers.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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Sander Rossel wrote:
Je m'apelle Sander Rossel :-\ ICH BIN SANDER ROSSEL!!! :mad:
German sounds so angry...you're not helping with stereotypes...
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Sander Rossel wrote:
12 Angry Men, translated as The 12 Jurors
Now, why would they go and do that? It changes the whole meaning of the title.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
To be fair, the men are jurors. Except in the Dutch title they could be happy, anxious, or anything else but angry :~
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To be fair, the men are jurors. Except in the Dutch title they could be happy, anxious, or anything else but angry :~
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Well sure, the men are jurors and nearly the complete cast. But it's the fact that they are all angry (except for Henry Fonda's character, so really it should have been 11 angry men lol) and ready to immediately convict based on their assumptions about the accused without deliberation that gives the film and play its name.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
