I hate recent C# versions!
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The "best" part is that, like `out`-with-declaration, the declaration pollutes the scope *surrounding* the `if`. That's also annoying about the old pattern of using `as` and checking whether the result is `null`, but this new syntax syntactically suggests that it solves that long-standing annoyance and it doesn't.
I agree with a desire to not pollute the scope with rubbish. On the other hand, maybe defining a new scope is the better solution -- define a new Method. In so many cases, when a scope becomes polluted, it's a side-effect of not splitting the logic into enough granularity. It seems like maybe C# needs a
withstatement :D . Or maybe not, I've never liked thewithstatement in languages which include it. But if C# could getwithright, maybe even I would use it. -
Am I the only one who hates recent addings to the language? Some examples: ?? Named/optional arguments () ?[] discards :confused:
(_, _, area) = city.GetCityInformation(cityName);
Switch expressions The list can go on and on. They are trying to make programming much easier and at the same time are making the syntax more and more unreadable:mad::mad:
Behzad
Machine Learning demands it! We're being asked to be more expressive when talking to machines. Expand our vocabulary; so as to speak.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
The language needs to change as marketing decrees; otherwise it looks like it has halted in it's development.
Actually, if you look at the arc of the language changes (particularly the earlier ones) you can see how they evolved to add functional programming capabilities which was definitely needed to support mixed C#/F# programming styles. I tend to think that was the overall plan by Anders Hejlsberg rather than being driven by market forces. That said, yeah, lately it seems there's more of a "what can we change to keep it looking fresh" attitude, though again, I still think Anders is at the helm and wanting to push C# into what might be considered uncharted territories, though still, much of what he's doing has already been done, even if obscurely in languages like APL.
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Create a Digital Ocean Droplet for .NET Core Web API with a real SSL Certificate on a DomainIf Anders had better idea's, he should have proposed and explained them. Then we'd talk about it. C# and F# are rather distinct languages; you can use both in the same runtime, so no problem there. You don't even want C# to be F#, they're not meant to do the same thing. He's not at the helm, Marketing is.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Never heard of it.
It does the null test, declares the new variable, assigns the value and completes the
ifin one statement. Think of it like the very old C way of doing aforloop:int i;
...
for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) ...As opposed to the simpler version that was added in C99:
for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++) ...
People complained that that was a kludge back then as well! :laugh: I was a sceptic, but once you are used to it you probably won't go back.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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The "best" part is that, like `out`-with-declaration, the declaration pollutes the scope *surrounding* the `if`. That's also annoying about the old pattern of using `as` and checking whether the result is `null`, but this new syntax syntactically suggests that it solves that long-standing annoyance and it doesn't.
I'd agree - the scope should logically be limited to the
ifblock. It seems strange that it wasn't really ..."I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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It does the null test, declares the new variable, assigns the value and completes the
ifin one statement. Think of it like the very old C way of doing aforloop:int i;
...
for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) ...As opposed to the simpler version that was added in C99:
for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++) ...
People complained that that was a kludge back then as well! :laugh: I was a sceptic, but once you are used to it you probably won't go back.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Am I the only one who hates recent addings to the language? Some examples: ?? Named/optional arguments () ?[] discards :confused:
(_, _, area) = city.GetCityInformation(cityName);
Switch expressions The list can go on and on. They are trying to make programming much easier and at the same time are making the syntax more and more unreadable:mad::mad:
Behzad
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obermd wrote:
Don't use it if you don't want to
You'll have to learn them, if you want to read new and foreign code-bases, so little choice there. There's a trade-off though, and I can't see how much value they add that can justify the confusion and the costs. As an industry, we'd be better of with consistency and fewer changes, saving them up for a few years and come with a decent change. Not just more sugar every umpteen months; if it were as interesting as animated icons on the desktop, then I'd be all for it, but it not even half that good, if anything, it's contra-productive and generating more costs than it is adding in value.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
As hard as we try, we cannot kill the beast.
Or can't we kill the beast because some of us aren't trying? I know a developer who'd still start new VB6 projects in 2022 because that's all he knows, it works and clients are satisfied. Why learn something new when the old still works? This person also uses hidden controls on a form to store values, instead of using variables like the rest of us do. Also, because it works, so why try harder? He'll be retiring later this year and he gets to keep all of his software and clients because no one, and I mean no one, could ever unearth whatever it is that he built. There are plenty of people like that, sort of technical quakers. We had technology in 1999, which is what God intended, and we need nothing newer.
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Further down in this thread;
obermd wrote:
Don't use it if you don't want to
That's exactly what happened and why VB6 still exists.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I'd agree - the scope should logically be limited to the
ifblock. It seems strange that it wasn't really ..."I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Needs to apply to an
elseif present? :~Nope - because if it isn't that class, it should be at best
nulland thus unusable in theelse:-D"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I agree, yes, that's good, though I don't use C99 either. On the other hand, I notice that there is no similar syntax for
while:-D .While is more of a "general purpose" loop construct, most commonly used with things that have been already constructed, like file pointers, linked lists, strings I think. It's less likely that you'd need the declarative part since a
whileloop doesn't have an initialisation phase like aforloop does."I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Nope - because if it isn't that class, it should be at best
nulland thus unusable in theelse:-D"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Which maybe I want! I can use
nullbetter'n anybody! (OK, probably not.) But what if the syntax allowed the use of the null-coalescing operator as well! Way hey! -
While is more of a "general purpose" loop construct, most commonly used with things that have been already constructed, like file pointers, linked lists, strings I think. It's less likely that you'd need the declarative part since a
whileloop doesn't have an initialisation phase like aforloop does."I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
But it could! Except then it might just be roughly equivalent to a
foreachanyway. :sigh: -
But it could! Except then it might just be roughly equivalent to a
foreachanyway. :sigh:Which they added to C++ anyway ... :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Which they added to C++ anyway ... :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
You can't keep anything nice. (I've only ever dabbled in C++ .) I may need to look at D again.
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obermd wrote:
Don't use it if you don't want to
You'll have to learn them, if you want to read new and foreign code-bases, so little choice there. There's a trade-off though, and I can't see how much value they add that can justify the confusion and the costs. As an industry, we'd be better of with consistency and fewer changes, saving them up for a few years and come with a decent change. Not just more sugar every umpteen months; if it were as interesting as animated icons on the desktop, then I'd be all for it, but it not even half that good, if anything, it's contra-productive and generating more costs than it is adding in value.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
This C# discussion is an age old one. Remember: if it ain't broke don't fix it. Change is the enemy of working. Better is the enemy of good. Perfection is the enemy of good. Static = no growth, no growth = death .... on the other hand when a fix corrects something broken, its a good thing. When change = easier, its a good thing (sometimes) ....
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
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This C# discussion is an age old one. Remember: if it ain't broke don't fix it. Change is the enemy of working. Better is the enemy of good. Perfection is the enemy of good. Static = no growth, no growth = death .... on the other hand when a fix corrects something broken, its a good thing. When change = easier, its a good thing (sometimes) ....
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
jmaida wrote:
When change = easier, its a good thing (sometimes)
Hmm, rarely. And something which merely "saves keystrokes" is best avoided. I can save an awful lot of keystrokes just by not writing comments and documentation.
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jmaida wrote:
When change = easier, its a good thing (sometimes)
Hmm, rarely. And something which merely "saves keystrokes" is best avoided. I can save an awful lot of keystrokes just by not writing comments and documentation.
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jmaida wrote:
When change = easier, its a good thing (sometimes)
Hmm, rarely. And something which merely "saves keystrokes" is best avoided. I can save an awful lot of keystrokes just by not writing comments and documentation.
Agree. However they do not just save keystrokes, hence I like the features listed here. Reducing the risk of errors (like the switch expressions) and reducing the amount of code that is not clearly expressing the intend of your algorithm (like ?. and ??) Is a clear benefit for me. I can even get behind the minimalistic stuff, once they expand it to cover all classes. I have no need for one single class to look completely different. But I guess they will eventually realize the main use case for C# is not only doing cool demos at conferences and expand it to us who have "complicated" programs needing two or more classes.
