Really?
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
> Am I a hopeless luddite? If you are, then so am I. I develop my own reusable bits and pieces of course (not sure I'd call them frameworks exactly) but I only pull in an external dependency when I really need it. libFLAC is a good example of the that. Wouldn't want to implement it myself! But then, that's not a framework either, just a library. The only framework proper that I *do* use as ASP.Net. I use it for the 'code behind' pages on my website, and I think it's terrific.
Paul Sanders. If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter - Blaise Pascal. Some of my best work is in the undo buffer.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
A steep learning curve can be great for learning something useful, and most learning is at least somewhat useful. Also, sharing the project may help others to learn something useful. I do agree that many projects are best done "the hard way" of doing them by hand, particularly one-time projects, but where's the fun in that?
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
Developers love rolling there own code, even when there are existing frameworks out there: Unintentional framework | CommitStrip[^]
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
Are there too many frameworks? Of course not. I don't care how many frameworks there are. I anyway just ignore them all.
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We're both hopeless luddites when it comes to the Framework du jour. The fundamental problem with frameworks is that as soon as your requirements go outside the framework you start fighting the framework. Since no two projects are the same this means that frameworks invariably cause more technical debt that has to be dealt with down the road.
I've worked on a varied bunch of projects using the Django web framework, and the only times I've felt like I'm fighting the framework is when a lesser programmer has written idiotic code because they thought they knew better than the framework in the first place, and I'm the chump stuck maintaining it. There _are_ good frameworks that work for a wide variety of things, but you must drink the kool-aid. You have to do it their way through and through, and only then do you get the benefits of a framework.
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Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds to me like you're saying you're overwhelmed by all the frameworks that are out there, with new ones being published daily. You don't need to know every framework that's out there. Or even know about those frameworks. When I started my career as a Windows developer, I thought I'd become a kick-ass developer if I just learned every API there is in Windows. It didn't take long for me to conclude that's just not realistic. And that's just one company. Read about what you find interesting or is relevant to your job, and ignore the other 99% of the stuff that gets published daily. Most of it is bound not to lead anywhere over time anyway (or at least, not anywhere that should matter to you). Or am I misunderstanding your question?
Pretty sure you're misunderstanding it - the way I read it, he's saying there appear to be a lot of low uptake languages and frameworks with no reason to have been written in the first place outside of a hobby project for a bored programmer, and no reason to enter his eyeballs outside of show&tell. His question is then whether he's mistaken.
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And that's why I stay the hell away from web development.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
You and me too! :-O
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I am not even sure what a framework is and had no idea many existed. All I know is I am looking forward to utilizing "Dear ImGui" perhaps it is a framework as I love its speed appearance and seemingly easy to understand programming interface and quite dislike MFC.
A framework is a library that calls your code. You have to structure your code in specific ways so the framework knows how to call it. Generally they take a huge amount of work off your hands in return for being reasonably inflexible. An example of a framework would be the Django web framework. The `./manage.py` script you use to start the web server calls into Django to handle the command line input, and that's the only command in the management script, control never returns to your entrypoint. Instead, the framework does frameworkey stuff to look at the rest of your code, and calls the bits of it that it recognises in specific scenarios, such as calling a view function when the matching URL conf is matched against a request against the webserver. Compare and contrast to Dear ImGui, which never takes control. You set up the environment, then you call into the library, it does what it needs to, and returns. Control remains with you, Dear ImGui never has need to call back into your code unless you give it a specific callback, in which case it only calls that.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
I feel the same way for sure. I occasionally get emails from CodeProject containing links such as [Introduction to ELENA Programming Language](https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/1127103/Introduction-to-ELENA-Programming-Language), which is just completely insane to me. It has 186 stars on github after a direct push to people's email inboxes. It's quite clearly unasked for, unneeded, and dead on arrival. As a programmer I well understand the itch to strip naked and walk backwards into the sea, writing your own programming language, or compiler, or operating system, or making your own hardware, or whatever, but we're not all Terry A. Davis. Sometimes you should be honest with yourself about your worthless throwaway hobby project being worthless hobby project.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
Not sure I wouldn't reword that to be language, library, or framework. If there were no new applications, we really wouldn't need to exist? To me, it's staying in scope in relation to time. New language? There was a time I'd bite and go down the inevitable rabbit hole of looking in depth. No more as I've seen way too many fade into relative obscurity after never getting any traction. And, I don't have the time. Libraries are of course useful, depending on how well they work and the overhead, both in terms of bloat and how much process modification needed to use it. Frameworks can have the same issues. I go back to scope. I'm not a luddite, I love to learn new things. After 30 years (yikes), there's not a week that goes by that I'm not learning or using something new. But this isn't a spare-time hobby so if it's not within the scope of the SOW, at best I'll make a note of it for the future. Are you a luddite? Probably not, just maybe pragmatic or really busy :-D
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Pretty sure you're misunderstanding it - the way I read it, he's saying there appear to be a lot of low uptake languages and frameworks with no reason to have been written in the first place outside of a hobby project for a bored programmer, and no reason to enter his eyeballs outside of show&tell. His question is then whether he's mistaken.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
[We're Gonna Build a Framework - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm2h0cbvsw8&t=1s) 🎵🎵 We’re gonna build a framework, ‘cos we wanna use one, but don’t wanna choose one, We’re gonna build a framework, we didn’t like the others, so we’ll write another… 🎵🎵
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
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*shrug* Could be. But why should anyone have concerns about anyone's pet project that only the author uses?
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When I read about software code having a "low surface to volume ratio", I know I have stumbled into Pseuds Corner. 🙄☹️
What does that even mean: "low surface to volume ratio"??? :confused:
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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What does that even mean: "low surface to volume ratio"??? :confused:
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
Good question! It's just techno-babble as far as I can make out.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
I don't use the frameworks published here, per se. But, I still find them quite valuable. When I'm here, I'm not looking for a solution, I'm looking for new ideas, different approaches, and novel ways to think about coding. If I need a solution, I go to GitHub or (in my usual environments) npmjs.com. If I need help, it's google and Stack Overflow. When I want inspiration, I come to Code Project.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
You are not a hopeless Luddite. You are probably one of the three people left in the World that actually just does 'programming' without frameworks or AI or some other load of nonsense.
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I feel the same way for sure. I occasionally get emails from CodeProject containing links such as [Introduction to ELENA Programming Language](https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/1127103/Introduction-to-ELENA-Programming-Language), which is just completely insane to me. It has 186 stars on github after a direct push to people's email inboxes. It's quite clearly unasked for, unneeded, and dead on arrival. As a programmer I well understand the itch to strip naked and walk backwards into the sea, writing your own programming language, or compiler, or operating system, or making your own hardware, or whatever, but we're not all Terry A. Davis. Sometimes you should be honest with yourself about your worthless throwaway hobby project being worthless hobby project.
Asday wrote:
your worthless throwaway hobby project
Oh such truth!
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
Its a learning site. We all write code and throw it against the wall. Some of it sticks. The real value to me is seeing a different perspective on code. Most of us have had that one teacher that we didn't like and that one teacher that we did bond with. Neither is necessarily wrong, just maybe not right for you. Read code and learn!
Hogan