Really?
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I am not even sure what a framework is and had no idea many existed. All I know is I am looking forward to utilizing "Dear ImGui" perhaps it is a framework as I love its speed appearance and seemingly easy to understand programming interface and quite dislike MFC.
A framework is a library that calls your code. You have to structure your code in specific ways so the framework knows how to call it. Generally they take a huge amount of work off your hands in return for being reasonably inflexible. An example of a framework would be the Django web framework. The `./manage.py` script you use to start the web server calls into Django to handle the command line input, and that's the only command in the management script, control never returns to your entrypoint. Instead, the framework does frameworkey stuff to look at the rest of your code, and calls the bits of it that it recognises in specific scenarios, such as calling a view function when the matching URL conf is matched against a request against the webserver. Compare and contrast to Dear ImGui, which never takes control. You set up the environment, then you call into the library, it does what it needs to, and returns. Control remains with you, Dear ImGui never has need to call back into your code unless you give it a specific callback, in which case it only calls that.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
I feel the same way for sure. I occasionally get emails from CodeProject containing links such as [Introduction to ELENA Programming Language](https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/1127103/Introduction-to-ELENA-Programming-Language), which is just completely insane to me. It has 186 stars on github after a direct push to people's email inboxes. It's quite clearly unasked for, unneeded, and dead on arrival. As a programmer I well understand the itch to strip naked and walk backwards into the sea, writing your own programming language, or compiler, or operating system, or making your own hardware, or whatever, but we're not all Terry A. Davis. Sometimes you should be honest with yourself about your worthless throwaway hobby project being worthless hobby project.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
Not sure I wouldn't reword that to be language, library, or framework. If there were no new applications, we really wouldn't need to exist? To me, it's staying in scope in relation to time. New language? There was a time I'd bite and go down the inevitable rabbit hole of looking in depth. No more as I've seen way too many fade into relative obscurity after never getting any traction. And, I don't have the time. Libraries are of course useful, depending on how well they work and the overhead, both in terms of bloat and how much process modification needed to use it. Frameworks can have the same issues. I go back to scope. I'm not a luddite, I love to learn new things. After 30 years (yikes), there's not a week that goes by that I'm not learning or using something new. But this isn't a spare-time hobby so if it's not within the scope of the SOW, at best I'll make a note of it for the future. Are you a luddite? Probably not, just maybe pragmatic or really busy :-D
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Pretty sure you're misunderstanding it - the way I read it, he's saying there appear to be a lot of low uptake languages and frameworks with no reason to have been written in the first place outside of a hobby project for a bored programmer, and no reason to enter his eyeballs outside of show&tell. His question is then whether he's mistaken.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
[We're Gonna Build a Framework - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm2h0cbvsw8&t=1s) 🎵🎵 We’re gonna build a framework, ‘cos we wanna use one, but don’t wanna choose one, We’re gonna build a framework, we didn’t like the others, so we’ll write another… 🎵🎵
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
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*shrug* Could be. But why should anyone have concerns about anyone's pet project that only the author uses?
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When I read about software code having a "low surface to volume ratio", I know I have stumbled into Pseuds Corner. 🙄☹️
What does that even mean: "low surface to volume ratio"??? :confused:
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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What does that even mean: "low surface to volume ratio"??? :confused:
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
Good question! It's just techno-babble as far as I can make out.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
I don't use the frameworks published here, per se. But, I still find them quite valuable. When I'm here, I'm not looking for a solution, I'm looking for new ideas, different approaches, and novel ways to think about coding. If I need a solution, I go to GitHub or (in my usual environments) npmjs.com. If I need help, it's google and Stack Overflow. When I want inspiration, I come to Code Project.
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
You are not a hopeless Luddite. You are probably one of the three people left in the World that actually just does 'programming' without frameworks or AI or some other load of nonsense.
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I feel the same way for sure. I occasionally get emails from CodeProject containing links such as [Introduction to ELENA Programming Language](https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/1127103/Introduction-to-ELENA-Programming-Language), which is just completely insane to me. It has 186 stars on github after a direct push to people's email inboxes. It's quite clearly unasked for, unneeded, and dead on arrival. As a programmer I well understand the itch to strip naked and walk backwards into the sea, writing your own programming language, or compiler, or operating system, or making your own hardware, or whatever, but we're not all Terry A. Davis. Sometimes you should be honest with yourself about your worthless throwaway hobby project being worthless hobby project.
Asday wrote:
your worthless throwaway hobby project
Oh such truth!
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Every morning I open Code Project and start with the news. Every morning I find a new application or framework or both. My question is how many of those, are actually used by developers, other than the people who created them? I believe that some of those created last year are still in use today, but not many. Really! I don't intend to criticize those that developed them; however, the learning curves have got to be tremendous. Am I a hopeless luddite? What do you think?
Its a learning site. We all write code and throw it against the wall. Some of it sticks. The real value to me is seeing a different perspective on code. Most of us have had that one teacher that we didn't like and that one teacher that we did bond with. Neither is necessarily wrong, just maybe not right for you. Read code and learn!
Hogan
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You misunderstand. > irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the internet, typically to a large number of users, for the purposes of advertising, phishing, spreading malware, etc. Definition courtesy Bing. Spammers are by definition those who create spam, which is irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the internet. It doesn't have to be for monetary gain, even though that's the usual purpose of spam. A ten year old spamming "fart" in IRC is just as much a spammer as a thirty-six year old spamming Pfizer advertisements to your inbox.
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A framework really helps if it's intended for your domain and has a low surface-to-volume ratio. Without one, the outcome is superfluous diversity, which makes it hard for software to interoperate without writing glue that would otherwise be unnecessary. Ideally, a framework should be developed internally so that it can evolve to suit the needs of your applications. But if an external framework is a good fit, and if it's responsive to its users, it's worth considering. The worst outcome is a team without a framework. It can happen because management thinks everyone should be developing features or because no developer has enough domain experience to develop a framework.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Absolutely. The first thing we do after defining the problem/solution space and what the project IS NOT. Is too look at what type of Framework is needed. Both for web and thick clients, etc. How will we all talk to the DB How will we wrap/protect the database (a lot of system views). The framework gives us handrails for adding functionality. Allows us to prototype quicker. And get user feedback quicker. The Flexibility of using views includes the ability to add columns in real-time, and have them show up in various grids/pages... And I would NEVER want to use the same framework every project. Ever! LOL
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You misunderstand. > irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the internet, typically to a large number of users, for the purposes of advertising, phishing, spreading malware, etc. Definition courtesy Bing. Spammers are by definition those who create spam, which is irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the internet. It doesn't have to be for monetary gain, even though that's the usual purpose of spam. A ten year old spamming "fart" in IRC is just as much a spammer as a thirty-six year old spamming Pfizer advertisements to your inbox.
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Pretty sure you're misunderstanding it - the way I read it, he's saying there appear to be a lot of low uptake languages and frameworks with no reason to have been written in the first place outside of a hobby project for a bored programmer, and no reason to enter his eyeballs outside of show&tell. His question is then whether he's mistaken.
It's probably as much a symptom of developer as branded product. Go make your blog, put some stuff on github, SEO yourself. Not just/specifically here, but a bunch of stuff out there only exists so that someone can point to it and say it exists. It exists almost solely to be indexed by a crawler so that searching the author's name turns up programming results.
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Sounds like I completely misunderstood. Are you saying you're getting spammed by someone promoting/trying to push their framework/whatever it is?
I have personally received at least one unwanted message spamming one of these things that I can remember for sure, and I have the vague feeling that it's the most recent in a consistent dribble of spam. The OP mentioned that he sees new ones of these in the news every single day. I can't corroborate that as I don't look at this website (just the newsletters), but that certainly sounds like spam to me. It doesn't have to be numerous or frequent to be spam, just irrelevant and unwanted. If my birth was a message on the internet it would be spam for example, even though it only happened once.
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It's probably as much a symptom of developer as branded product. Go make your blog, put some stuff on github, SEO yourself. Not just/specifically here, but a bunch of stuff out there only exists so that someone can point to it and say it exists. It exists almost solely to be indexed by a crawler so that searching the author's name turns up programming results.
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I have personally received at least one unwanted message spamming one of these things that I can remember for sure, and I have the vague feeling that it's the most recent in a consistent dribble of spam. The OP mentioned that he sees new ones of these in the news every single day. I can't corroborate that as I don't look at this website (just the newsletters), but that certainly sounds like spam to me. It doesn't have to be numerous or frequent to be spam, just irrelevant and unwanted. If my birth was a message on the internet it would be spam for example, even though it only happened once.
Asday wrote:
The OP mentioned that he sees new ones of these in the news every single day
Ok, so I had missed/misunderstood that part. I do go over the daily newsletter, and get the weekly "new articles" summary (whatever it's called), but I've proactively subscribed to that. I can't recall any sort of promotion(-ish) type of messaging from CP beyond that.
Asday wrote:
It doesn't have to be numerous or frequent to be spam, just irrelevant and unwanted. If my birth was a message on the internet it would be spam for example, even though it only happened once.
You must hate watching the news. :-)
