Once VS.NET ships, R.I.P. Windows 9x?
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
I haven't had a chance to check out the Visual Studio .NET programming enviornemnt, but you can't target Win9x platforms with the C++ environment? If so, that stinks... And I don't think that every application will benefit as being written as a "web service". I mean it would help but is everyone connected to the iNET and with reasonable speed? How does .NET applications work for people with 56k connections (still the highest amount of connections used to access the NET). I don't know but I think writing every application as a web service right now would be overkill, especially since the infrastrucutre isn't there yet to support it. Like to hear anyone's view on this particular subject, and will they still sell Visual Studio components as seperate pieces? Like VC++, VB, etc... Or will they only sell VS .NET as one piece in the differnet flavors Professional and Enterprise? I don't think I could even afford the upgrade or full price upwards of about $3,500+ or something?!?! Sheesh. Sam C ---- Systems Manager Hospitality Marketing Associates
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
Hopefully VC7 will still support remote debugging. That will allow you to debug on Win9X. Kind regards, Tim
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
What about the Remote Debugger? I've never used it before, and don't know whether or not it installs on non NT based systems, but it sure sounds like the right tool for the job :) -- Russell Morris Georgia Institute of Technology "Hello, I'm doctor stupid. I'm going to take out your liver bones!" - Ralph Wiggum
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Hopefully VC7 will still support remote debugging. That will allow you to debug on Win9X. Kind regards, Tim
Oh sure, remote debugging might work. As long as you have two computers. And they're networked somehow. And they're right next to each other. Hardly a solution. --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
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What about the Remote Debugger? I've never used it before, and don't know whether or not it installs on non NT based systems, but it sure sounds like the right tool for the job :) -- Russell Morris Georgia Institute of Technology "Hello, I'm doctor stupid. I'm going to take out your liver bones!" - Ralph Wiggum
What about the Remote Debugger? Oh sure, remote debugging might work. As long as you have two computers. And they're networked somehow. And they're right next to each other. Hardly a solution. --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
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Oh sure, remote debugging might work. As long as you have two computers. And they're networked somehow. And they're right next to each other. Hardly a solution. --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
I think it is possible to do remote debugging with a remote host running in a vmware virtual machine (www.vmware.com). So there is no need for a 2nd physical computer. Although I don't know whether this is really easy to do (switch between vmware and local desktop....) -- See me: www.magerquark.de Want a job? www.zeta-software.de/jobs
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I haven't had a chance to check out the Visual Studio .NET programming enviornemnt, but you can't target Win9x platforms with the C++ environment? If so, that stinks... And I don't think that every application will benefit as being written as a "web service". I mean it would help but is everyone connected to the iNET and with reasonable speed? How does .NET applications work for people with 56k connections (still the highest amount of connections used to access the NET). I don't know but I think writing every application as a web service right now would be overkill, especially since the infrastrucutre isn't there yet to support it. Like to hear anyone's view on this particular subject, and will they still sell Visual Studio components as seperate pieces? Like VC++, VB, etc... Or will they only sell VS .NET as one piece in the differnet flavors Professional and Enterprise? I don't think I could even afford the upgrade or full price upwards of about $3,500+ or something?!?! Sheesh. Sam C ---- Systems Manager Hospitality Marketing Associates
..."I mean it would help but is everyone connected to the iNET and with reasonable speed? How does .NET applications work for people with 56k connections (still the highest amount of connections used to access the NET)."... Well I live in South Africa (read: no broad band) and even on my home's 56k connection some test web services I have been using are fast enough to use. The thing is that web-services tend to not send vast amounts of data and it is generally all data, not HTML for layout, images, videos etc. ..."And I don't think that every application will benefit as being written as a "web service"... Naturally :) Just like not every application benefits from XML, or a GUI. Web Services are simply another tool for a specific job. Bottom line?: I feel Web Services will be practical and should be used when needed. Not everything needs a web service nor should everything itself be a web service. regards, Paul Watson Cape Town, South Africa e: paulmwatson@email.com w: vergen.org
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
it seems ms is hastening in all possible ways the move to the newer windows platforms (xp/2k/nt) as part of the normal process of moving users along with advances but with the added benefit of moving them into .NOT territory where ms can start making the new revenue streams expect no sympathy from ms in this ... they want to kill off the old platforms for business reasons and can easily 'hide' behind the 'we must all move forward with new technologies...' argument dunno if that means i'm gonna be a dinosaur in a few years still working in c++ on apps that do their jobs quite happily on the platforms but my clients won't mind :) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
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it seems ms is hastening in all possible ways the move to the newer windows platforms (xp/2k/nt) as part of the normal process of moving users along with advances but with the added benefit of moving them into .NOT territory where ms can start making the new revenue streams expect no sympathy from ms in this ... they want to kill off the old platforms for business reasons and can easily 'hide' behind the 'we must all move forward with new technologies...' argument dunno if that means i'm gonna be a dinosaur in a few years still working in c++ on apps that do their jobs quite happily on the platforms but my clients won't mind :) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
I suspect that if we want to support the 9x platform, then we'll still have to use VC6. I guess that Microsoft are trying to discourage the use of 9x and the best way to do that is to make sure all the new useful stuff isn't easy to do on 9x. 95 is already doomed with IE6 not being available for it (or so I'm led to believe). I think Microsoft are going to do everything they can to eliminate 9x. It's a legacy platform to them now, so I think they will say that if you want to write apps for it, you have to use a legacy compiler (VC6) just my thoughts, Michael :-)
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
You can write apps with VC7 that will run on 98/ME, you just can't write them while using those graphical environments. I will now lead everyone in the David Wulf holy Microsoft chant: "Microsoft is good. Microsoft is right. Microsoft is all powerful. Hail Microsoft. Hail Microsoft. Linux is evil. Linux is devil spawn. Boo on Linux." :) Humor Hint (tm) - This was meant as a good-natured poke in the ribs for Dave. Humor Hints (tm) are provided at no extra charge, and in this message are sponsored by Pauline's Portracted Prophylactic Power Penile Extensions who reminds us to reach out and touch someone. Small Print: Pauline's Portracted Prophylactic Power Penile Extensions can cause mild side affects such as dry mouth, stomach cramping, mild under-arm rashes, headaches, nausea, dramatatically increased menstrual flow, athlete's foot, hallucinations, nosebleed, ear-aches and back-pain. Please use only as directed.
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
just like i have my vc1.5, 4.0 and 5.0 CDs. and, i just located my copy of MS C 6.0 (that's C, not C++). now i can rebuild all of my old DOS things - complete with VESA graphics! MS can't yet make old CDs unreadable, though they're working on making it illegal to do so in the future. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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Visual Studio.NET does not install on 9x/Me, and the June Platform SDK "doesn't support" 9x/Me, so is this the start of MS killing off those OSes? Contrary to what MS might wish, the entire world isn't running NT. If I wanted to write an app in C++ and use the VC7 compiler for stuff like newer STL, new ATL features, and better optimizations, but I need to have the app run on 98, it sounds like I'm SOL. Oh sure the app might run on 98, but there's no way to debug on 98 since I can't install the debugger. :eek: What's the deal here? --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
Michael, The Visual Studio .NET environment requires NT4, W2K or XP. You can, of course, target Win9x. Remote-debugging is the recommended means of debugging applications for 9x-level platforms. I need to check, but I believe the new platform-sdk debugger (which is now a subset of the VS.NET debugger) will run on 9x as well. Someone else on this thread asked about the availability of Visual Studio .NET product SKUs other than Professional and Enterprise. As in the past, you will be able to purchase the language product stand-alone (Visual C++ .NET, Visual Basic .NET, and now Visual C# .NET). These are the "Standard" SKUs. Hope this helps. Nick This posting is provided “AS IS” with no warranties, and confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. © 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
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You can write apps with VC7 that will run on 98/ME, you just can't write them while using those graphical environments. I will now lead everyone in the David Wulf holy Microsoft chant: "Microsoft is good. Microsoft is right. Microsoft is all powerful. Hail Microsoft. Hail Microsoft. Linux is evil. Linux is devil spawn. Boo on Linux." :) Humor Hint (tm) - This was meant as a good-natured poke in the ribs for Dave. Humor Hints (tm) are provided at no extra charge, and in this message are sponsored by Pauline's Portracted Prophylactic Power Penile Extensions who reminds us to reach out and touch someone. Small Print: Pauline's Portracted Prophylactic Power Penile Extensions can cause mild side affects such as dry mouth, stomach cramping, mild under-arm rashes, headaches, nausea, dramatatically increased menstrual flow, athlete's foot, hallucinations, nosebleed, ear-aches and back-pain. Please use only as directed.
I will now lead everyone in the David Wulf holy Microsoft chant: "Microsoft is good. Microsoft is right. Microsoft is all powerful. Hail Microsoft. Hail Microsoft. Linux is evil. Linux is devil spawn. Boo on Linux." Hey, that's not fair. Firstly, you spelt my name wrong, but also, the chant goes like this: "Microsoft is good. Microsoft is right. Microsoft is all powerful. Hail Microsoft. Hail Microsoft. Linux is good. Linux is right. Hail Linux." I have never said Linux was evil, only you. ;). David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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I think it is possible to do remote debugging with a remote host running in a vmware virtual machine (www.vmware.com). So there is no need for a 2nd physical computer. Although I don't know whether this is really easy to do (switch between vmware and local desktop....) -- See me: www.magerquark.de Want a job? www.zeta-software.de/jobs
This is exactly what I do when I have to debug something on Win98/95/Me/NT (I use W2K). A little bit slow, but acceptable for debugging minor problems. From the other hand, if the system is designed keeping Win98 in mind and it works on W2K, there won't be any major problems on Win9x, just maybe minor bugs - IMHO.
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Oh sure, remote debugging might work. As long as you have two computers. And they're networked somehow. And they're right next to each other. Hardly a solution. --Mike-- http://home.inreach.com/mdunn/ Ford: How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese? Arthur: I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?
I did not say it was a good solution, just a possible solution. I do use remote debugging though when I am developing on Win2K and I see problems on a Win9X machine. It is alot easier to use remote debugging than have to install VC++ on the machine to debug the problem. Kind regards, Tim
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I will now lead everyone in the David Wulf holy Microsoft chant: "Microsoft is good. Microsoft is right. Microsoft is all powerful. Hail Microsoft. Hail Microsoft. Linux is evil. Linux is devil spawn. Boo on Linux." Hey, that's not fair. Firstly, you spelt my name wrong, but also, the chant goes like this: "Microsoft is good. Microsoft is right. Microsoft is all powerful. Hail Microsoft. Hail Microsoft. Linux is good. Linux is right. Hail Linux." I have never said Linux was evil, only you. ;). David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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Michael, The Visual Studio .NET environment requires NT4, W2K or XP. You can, of course, target Win9x. Remote-debugging is the recommended means of debugging applications for 9x-level platforms. I need to check, but I believe the new platform-sdk debugger (which is now a subset of the VS.NET debugger) will run on 9x as well. Someone else on this thread asked about the availability of Visual Studio .NET product SKUs other than Professional and Enterprise. As in the past, you will be able to purchase the language product stand-alone (Visual C++ .NET, Visual Basic .NET, and now Visual C# .NET). These are the "Standard" SKUs. Hope this helps. Nick This posting is provided “AS IS” with no warranties, and confers no rights. You assume all risk for your use. © 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
