Memory issues...
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Here's a snapshot of memory usage[^] on my 16GB desktop running Ubuntu 22.04.2 LTS. I'm currently running: * GIMP, * FireFox (with 30 tabs open) - one streaming music, * two remote desktop connections via Remmina, * 3 terminal sessions, * MS Teams, * VSCode, * various other programs Because I saw someone mention Docker, I went ahead and started my Docker container running MS SQL Server. Here's the memory snapshot[^] with Docker running too. I could never run all this on my 16GB Windows 10 laptop. What do those Linux devs know? 😂😆🤓 There really are advantages to running Linux as dev. I understand that I can't run full Visual Studio but learning command line and migrating to .NET Core makes it so I can do everything I need (yes, not WinForms) on Linux with VS Code. and I feel much less pain.
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Here's a snapshot of memory usage[^] on my 16GB desktop running Ubuntu 22.04.2 LTS. I'm currently running: * GIMP, * FireFox (with 30 tabs open) - one streaming music, * two remote desktop connections via Remmina, * 3 terminal sessions, * MS Teams, * VSCode, * various other programs Because I saw someone mention Docker, I went ahead and started my Docker container running MS SQL Server. Here's the memory snapshot[^] with Docker running too. I could never run all this on my 16GB Windows 10 laptop. What do those Linux devs know? 😂😆🤓 There really are advantages to running Linux as dev. I understand that I can't run full Visual Studio but learning command line and migrating to .NET Core makes it so I can do everything I need (yes, not WinForms) on Linux with VS Code. and I feel much less pain.
raddevus wrote:
yes, not WinForms
Unfortunately, a necessity, as is .NET Framework :sigh:
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Sander Rossel wrote:
We're getting timeouts like you wouldn't believe,
Just realized I had not looked at memory utilization in years. Right now with 16 gb I have nothing but three browser windows open and the memory util is at 5 gig. Performance problems for me always come down to CPU. Usually when VS is starting up or when the virus checker is going crazy. But you didn't mention the CPU at all? When this happens the CPU is low? Also which version of windows?
Sander Rossel wrote:
20GB and that fixes the problem
And what was it set to before? Mine uses auto manage. The windows suggestion appears to have that value as low. Suggestion seems to be "1.5 to 3 times" of physical memory. So 24 to 48 would be an appropriate range.
jschell wrote:
But you didn't mention the CPU at all? When this happens the CPU is low? Also which version of windows?
CPU isn't the issue, the guy has a good one. Windows 11 Pro.
jschell wrote:
And what was it set to before? Mine uses auto manage.
Same.
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I count 3 memory hogs: Chrome Visual Studio SQL Server For Chrome, dump it and give Edge a try. Same rendering engine and a lot lighter on memory. Visual Studio - turn off the AI recommendations SQL Server - limit memory usage via [Server memory configuration options - SQL Server | Microsoft Learn](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/database-engine/configure-windows/server-memory-server-configuration-options?view=sql-server-ver16)
obermd wrote:
SQL Server - limit memory usage via Server memory configuration options - SQL Server | Microsoft Learn
The problem wasn't the limit, the problem was that there simply wasn't any memory left. We fixed the issue by saying SQL Server should grab a minimum (and maximum) amount of memory, 1024 MB. Works like a charm now :D All the other apps can do with a little less memory X|
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My coworker has a brand new 16GB laptop. 16GB should be enough for most workloads, or so you'd think. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We're running "the usual", such as Outlook, Spotify, SourceTree, Teams, Chrome, OneDrive, etc. Now, with only two Visual Studio instances and a SQL Server Management Studio instance open, SQL Server (the service) just chokes. We're getting timeouts like you wouldn't believe, nothing works. After some digging, we found the reason to be memory exhaustion, 16GB just went up in smoke and it's at its peak at a constant 90+%. I've had 16GB and even less in the past, and running a local SQL Server instance together with VS and SSMS has never been a problem. At this point it's become unworkable. You'd think that maybe the memory would be more evenly distributed and that some processes would write to disk instead and become a bit slower. But instead, SQL Server just pretty much stops working altogether. Closing a VS instance fixes the problem, but sometimes we just need to have two instances open. My coworker changed his virtual memory page file to use 20GB and that fixes the problem, but doesn't feel right. Anyone have any ideas what the problem could be?* * Is this a programming question? Is it a SQL Server question? Is it a general computing question? I'm not sure, so I'm posting it here.
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Have you tried limiting how much memory SQL Server is allowed to use? It will take every bit of free memory on the machine as it needs it and tends to hold on to it long after that need is gone.
There are no solutions, only trade-offs.
- Thomas SowellA day can really slip by when you're deliberately avoiding what you're supposed to do.
- Calvin (Bill Watterson, Calvin & Hobbes) -
My work PC is a bit less than 2 years old and with 16gb of memory I was running in the same problems with SQL Server and VS2022 running together. What worked for me was disabling the fancy "AI" code suggestions, the background process for it was gobbling 1.5GB+ per VS instance, that's definitely not worth the couple extra lines of code I had to write.
Good one. We ended up fixing this by giving SQL Server at least 1024 MB of memory, always. Having a bit less memory isn't a problem for any other application, they just get a little slow (not noticable though).
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Gerry Schmitz wrote:
I use Edge and FireFox and watch everything in Task Manager
Click 'Open Resource Monitor' at the bottom, and select the 'Memory' tab to get a more detailed view. I run with 16 GB, and have never seen that as a limitation to my activities. Not even when running VS. I do not run any database system, though. Right now, Resource Monitor says that only 99 MB is 'Free'. But 9900 MB is 'Standby'. It claims that 6126 MB is 'In Use'. So I start SysInternal RamMap to do a little cleanup: Empty Working Sets, Modified list and Standby list. In Use drops to 987 MB, Free goes up to 15215 MB. This is of course just for a short time. Even though the working sets are small at the moment, it won't take long before the processes bring in some new pages. Also, when I cleared the Standby list, if some process actually requests some of those pages, they have to be fetched from disk, at a cost. Yet, it takes a long time, with much activity, before the 'In Use' grows even close to 6 GB. I did a RamMap cleanup and went through all the 18 browser tabs, all the 7 Word documents paging them to the next page, changed to another directory in the Explorer windows and pulled up the menu in Network Connections, and inspected Resource monitor. That caused In Use to jump up to 2357 MB, and some Standby. 12.5 GB is still Free. I know from experience that it will take quite some time to build In Use back up to 6 GB with the applications I am running now. That is with 7 (large!) MS-Word documents open, one single-tab web browser (Edge), another one (FireFox) with 17 open tabs. Two Explorer windows are open. One Network Connections window. One Resource Monitor, one RamMap. 14 windows in total. I have tried to make a composition of application that I might be running at the same time - right now I am not doing sound editing, video editing or program development. I rarely do all of those at the same time, but even when I set it up I am not reaching 16 GB in use. (Part of the explanation may be that both my MSO, sound and video editor are several years old, made to run with a lot less resources available.) I have another 16 GB of memory sticks sitting on my shelf (bought for another PC for a project that never materialized). I could plug them into my main PC, but as there has never been a need for more RAM, I never got around to doing it. I believe that a lot of people claiming that they "must" have 32 (or 64 or 128) GB, and "only" 16 MB makes
In most cases, it's housekeeping. My "main user" thinks nothing of opening tab, after tab, after tab ...
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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raddevus wrote:
yes, not WinForms
Unfortunately, a necessity, as is .NET Framework :sigh:
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Yeah, I understand the constraints of legacy software etc. It makes sense. It's just amazing to me that Linux really does seem to keep memory cleaner. I think it kind of indicates that Linux devs are a bit more disciplined in creating things really. Whereas in the Windows world it feels more like a free-for-all "memory is there, go ahead and eat it". I am also always astonished at the number of things running "to support" the Win OS or whatever all that stuff is. Windows itself just eats so much memory and feels ridiculous. I mean, as you seem to be learning, 32GB probably is the minimum now for Win10. Oy!
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Yeah, I understand the constraints of legacy software etc. It makes sense. It's just amazing to me that Linux really does seem to keep memory cleaner. I think it kind of indicates that Linux devs are a bit more disciplined in creating things really. Whereas in the Windows world it feels more like a free-for-all "memory is there, go ahead and eat it". I am also always astonished at the number of things running "to support" the Win OS or whatever all that stuff is. Windows itself just eats so much memory and feels ridiculous. I mean, as you seem to be learning, 32GB probably is the minimum now for Win10. Oy!
raddevus wrote:
Yeah, I understand the constraints of legacy software etc.
virtual machines?
raddevus wrote:
I think it kind of indicates that Linux devs are a bit more disciplined in creating things really.
I saw it already back to the late 2000s... burning a cd ín windows almost 40 min. In linux 3.
raddevus wrote:
Whereas in the Windows world it feels more like a free-for-all "memory is there, go ahead and eat it".
sadly... yes
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Good one. We ended up fixing this by giving SQL Server at least 1024 MB of memory, always. Having a bit less memory isn't a problem for any other application, they just get a little slow (not noticable though).
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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My coworker has a brand new 16GB laptop. 16GB should be enough for most workloads, or so you'd think. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We're running "the usual", such as Outlook, Spotify, SourceTree, Teams, Chrome, OneDrive, etc. Now, with only two Visual Studio instances and a SQL Server Management Studio instance open, SQL Server (the service) just chokes. We're getting timeouts like you wouldn't believe, nothing works. After some digging, we found the reason to be memory exhaustion, 16GB just went up in smoke and it's at its peak at a constant 90+%. I've had 16GB and even less in the past, and running a local SQL Server instance together with VS and SSMS has never been a problem. At this point it's become unworkable. You'd think that maybe the memory would be more evenly distributed and that some processes would write to disk instead and become a bit slower. But instead, SQL Server just pretty much stops working altogether. Closing a VS instance fixes the problem, but sometimes we just need to have two instances open. My coworker changed his virtual memory page file to use 20GB and that fixes the problem, but doesn't feel right. Anyone have any ideas what the problem could be?* * Is this a programming question? Is it a SQL Server question? Is it a general computing question? I'm not sure, so I'm posting it here.
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I've had my current laptop a couple of years and usually just use it to RDP into my work desktop and run Teams locally. The laptop came with 8Gb while the work machine has 64Gb. Recently I found that even with only 1 instance of RDP, MS Teams and a couple of Chrome windows under Win 11, the laptop was using 7.8 out of 8Gb, paging like mad and, according to Resource Monitor, "Memory Compression" was causing over 1200 Hard Faults per second! I've added another 8Gb and it seems OK... For now! :) I think it's got to the stage where a 16Gb machine is entry level for Windows and a dev machine should probably have 64Gb, possibly more.
(One day I'll think of a signature...)
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I have 32Gb right now (not dev'ing so much lately) but still 2 slots free. The first time I feel like something should be working better, I buy 2x32 right away.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
I decided to take the elephant by the tusks, so to speak, and ordered a new Dell XPS laptop fully loaded - I9 processor, 64G RAM, 1TB SSD drive and a quad density touch screen. Was pricey, but this will last me for the next 5+ years without mucking about with upgrades. Did the same with my previous laptop, and it served me well fo 10+ years. Not screwing around anymore... And this thing is awesomely fast. It can do a VS update 3x faster than my work computer. I have no complaints...
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Your browsers will often take the most memory; are constantly doing "call backs". Each tab is another instance; for the most part. I uninstalled Chrome because it was ALWAYS busy; even when I wasn't explicitly "loading" it. I use Edge and FireFox and watch everything in Task Manager. I stream movies while programming, etc. with 16GB. Just know what's going on.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
I hope you realize that Edge now uses the same core chromium engine as Chrome?
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I hope you realize that Edge now uses the same core chromium engine as Chrome?
You realize one is "wrapped" by Google and the other by MS?
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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You realize one is "wrapped" by Google and the other by MS?
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
Of course. And is one really all that much better than the other?
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My coworker has a brand new 16GB laptop. 16GB should be enough for most workloads, or so you'd think. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We're running "the usual", such as Outlook, Spotify, SourceTree, Teams, Chrome, OneDrive, etc. Now, with only two Visual Studio instances and a SQL Server Management Studio instance open, SQL Server (the service) just chokes. We're getting timeouts like you wouldn't believe, nothing works. After some digging, we found the reason to be memory exhaustion, 16GB just went up in smoke and it's at its peak at a constant 90+%. I've had 16GB and even less in the past, and running a local SQL Server instance together with VS and SSMS has never been a problem. At this point it's become unworkable. You'd think that maybe the memory would be more evenly distributed and that some processes would write to disk instead and become a bit slower. But instead, SQL Server just pretty much stops working altogether. Closing a VS instance fixes the problem, but sometimes we just need to have two instances open. My coworker changed his virtual memory page file to use 20GB and that fixes the problem, but doesn't feel right. Anyone have any ideas what the problem could be?* * Is this a programming question? Is it a SQL Server question? Is it a general computing question? I'm not sure, so I'm posting it here.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Sorry, I run VMs all the time on my main development laptop... that might end shortly due to retirement and other personal issues, but the last 3 laptops I've had - unit -1 (sitting on the shelf), unit 0 (I'm typing on it) and unit 1 (the new one that I am migrating too) all have 64GB. It's a defense against the Microsoft virus. Oh, the Xp VM runs all day long with 2GB, Win 10 loves 16GB, Win 11 meh, not there yet. Tried to get a 16gb machine up with a VM and it choked.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I decided to take the elephant by the tusks, so to speak, and ordered a new Dell XPS laptop fully loaded - I9 processor, 64G RAM, 1TB SSD drive and a quad density touch screen. Was pricey, but this will last me for the next 5+ years without mucking about with upgrades. Did the same with my previous laptop, and it served me well fo 10+ years. Not screwing around anymore... And this thing is awesomely fast. It can do a VS update 3x faster than my work computer. I have no complaints...
Andreas Mertens wrote:
it served me well fo 10+ years. Not screwing around anymore...
I purchased my DELL work laptop when leaving the 2.previous company (10€ symbolic price to avoid "present" due to legislation) and it is still performing good, only mucking is temperature and changing the radiator is a PITA (I saw it back then done by the technician and I won't start with it). I might give the CPU a bit of thermal paste, but if not... not a big issue, Laptop was bought in 2011 and still kicking. I bought an ACER out of the box in an offer as Multimedia device for the living room in 2017... still working really good. I think I won't ever pimp any laptop beyond changing the disk or adding RAM. But I built my PC myself from the scratch, I had no hurry, so I just purchased the parts during a couple of months while waiting for good offers, the only really costy thing was the graphic card. It was during the time they were way overpriced and I bought it for the official price (what already was a really good price back then, all other shops were at least 50% more expensive). This I didn't do only because of price (which still got me around 1k savings comparing with current shop prices at the moment) but mostly, I did it to get back up-to-date in Hardware. My last built was over 10-11 years before that. I expect this PC to be good for the next 10 years or so (again). For the kids I will not build the pc, just buy a pre-build setting. Only re-install to get the system as clean as I can (and the current windows version of the moment allows me)
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Sorry, I run VMs all the time on my main development laptop... that might end shortly due to retirement and other personal issues, but the last 3 laptops I've had - unit -1 (sitting on the shelf), unit 0 (I'm typing on it) and unit 1 (the new one that I am migrating too) all have 64GB. It's a defense against the Microsoft virus. Oh, the Xp VM runs all day long with 2GB, Win 10 loves 16GB, Win 11 meh, not there yet. Tried to get a 16gb machine up with a VM and it choked.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Interesting you should compare Win 11 with the other OSs, we only started having issues with our massive 64GB memory all being gobbled up after we installed Win 11. There does seem to be something with Win 11 that is not quite right with VMs or WSL, as though there is a memory leak somewhere.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Andreas Mertens wrote:
it served me well fo 10+ years. Not screwing around anymore...
I purchased my DELL work laptop when leaving the 2.previous company (10€ symbolic price to avoid "present" due to legislation) and it is still performing good, only mucking is temperature and changing the radiator is a PITA (I saw it back then done by the technician and I won't start with it). I might give the CPU a bit of thermal paste, but if not... not a big issue, Laptop was bought in 2011 and still kicking. I bought an ACER out of the box in an offer as Multimedia device for the living room in 2017... still working really good. I think I won't ever pimp any laptop beyond changing the disk or adding RAM. But I built my PC myself from the scratch, I had no hurry, so I just purchased the parts during a couple of months while waiting for good offers, the only really costy thing was the graphic card. It was during the time they were way overpriced and I bought it for the official price (what already was a really good price back then, all other shops were at least 50% more expensive). This I didn't do only because of price (which still got me around 1k savings comparing with current shop prices at the moment) but mostly, I did it to get back up-to-date in Hardware. My last built was over 10-11 years before that. I expect this PC to be good for the next 10 years or so (again). For the kids I will not build the pc, just buy a pre-build setting. Only re-install to get the system as clean as I can (and the current windows version of the moment allows me)
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
In my experience, the main cause of laptops running too hot is dust buildup in the air path through the radiator/heat exchanger/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, typically where the fan "pushes" the air. Most laptops are fairly easy to open up to the point that you can clean it out, and you can usually get instructions online. A couple of hp lappies I could open up to that point in about 5 minutes, maybe a dozen screws and a few clips. The worst was a 2006-or-so lenovo thinkpad, 30+ screws... But it's still running. Right now a friend is using it in the next room to scan about 1000 handwritten pages to PDF.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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Have you tried limiting how much memory SQL Server is allowed to use? It will take every bit of free memory on the machine as it needs it and tends to hold on to it long after that need is gone.
There are no solutions, only trade-offs.
- Thomas SowellA day can really slip by when you're deliberately avoiding what you're supposed to do.
- Calvin (Bill Watterson, Calvin & Hobbes)Yeah, but that wasn't the problem. The problem was SQL Server could not get enough memory to run properly, so we gave it a minimum amount of memory (and also a maximum). Works like a charm now :)
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