Delegates and I am so glad to leave MS behind
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I just wanted to say that. Nothing personal.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Fair enough. :laugh:
Jeremy Falcon
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I admit to having never developed anything in C# or anything else managed. I admit that the .net ecosystem is nice, but I just wish Microsoft would stop renaming stuff to make it look new. That was the gist of my rant. I've done a good bit of Unix development in the past - device drivers, graphics subsystems, applications, likely a few years before Linux became a twinkle in someone's eye. Tinkering, it's a bit of a shock to step back into that environment - much closer to the base system. I'm looking forward to relearning make files :).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
To be honest, I'm floating the idea of switching to Linux for personal use. I make my living with Microsoft technologies, but for personal use, I'm considering what would be involved in switching. I'll be interested to see how you make out.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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So, I read this article: Easily navigate code delegates while debugging - Visual Studio Blog[^] and I am so glad, I just don't give a flying f*** anymore. I started doing serious Windows development in 2003. I inherited a project that used ActiveX controls. Just local, no downloads - all embedded system work. I have to plow through the changing terminology of COM, DCOM, COM++, ActiveX, etc. After 3 years, I declared it utter bull****. MS renaming things just to rename things for marketing purposes. So, I read this devblog article, and though delegates are somewhat different than function pointers, its the same old bs from Microsoft renaming stuff. Worse, I suspect it made it into the C++ standard. I don't know about that, nor do I care. Starting next week, I'm moving to linux.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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So, I read this article: Easily navigate code delegates while debugging - Visual Studio Blog[^] and I am so glad, I just don't give a flying f*** anymore. I started doing serious Windows development in 2003. I inherited a project that used ActiveX controls. Just local, no downloads - all embedded system work. I have to plow through the changing terminology of COM, DCOM, COM++, ActiveX, etc. After 3 years, I declared it utter bull****. MS renaming things just to rename things for marketing purposes. So, I read this devblog article, and though delegates are somewhat different than function pointers, its the same old bs from Microsoft renaming stuff. Worse, I suspect it made it into the C++ standard. I don't know about that, nor do I care. Starting next week, I'm moving to linux.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Another way to leave MS's work out of the loop: The Impossibly Fast C++ Delegates, Fixed[^]. CP for the win!
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I admit to having never developed anything in C# or anything else managed. I admit that the .net ecosystem is nice, but I just wish Microsoft would stop renaming stuff to make it look new. That was the gist of my rant. I've done a good bit of Unix development in the past - device drivers, graphics subsystems, applications, likely a few years before Linux became a twinkle in someone's eye. Tinkering, it's a bit of a shock to step back into that environment - much closer to the base system. I'm looking forward to relearning make files :).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I haven't developed in C# or anything managed either. Some things about C# are appealing, but it's not a fit for what I've focused on so far. Besides, you can't kiss all the girls. Renaming in large corporations sometimes occurs when a new group takes something over and rebrands it, even to the point of inventing new terminology. It's often at the behest of the new VP, much like an animal engaging in scent marking. My former boss described it as "Same lady, new dress." :-D I'd heard so many horror stories about makefiles that I kept delaying porting my code from Windows to Linux. And one day I discovered CMake, which even this dinosaur learned with relative ease. If it's a fit for what you doing (building a large C++ code base in my case), take a look at it.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
So, I read this article: Easily navigate code delegates while debugging - Visual Studio Blog[^] and I am so glad, I just don't give a flying f*** anymore. I started doing serious Windows development in 2003. I inherited a project that used ActiveX controls. Just local, no downloads - all embedded system work. I have to plow through the changing terminology of COM, DCOM, COM++, ActiveX, etc. After 3 years, I declared it utter bull****. MS renaming things just to rename things for marketing purposes. So, I read this devblog article, and though delegates are somewhat different than function pointers, its the same old bs from Microsoft renaming stuff. Worse, I suspect it made it into the C++ standard. I don't know about that, nor do I care. Starting next week, I'm moving to linux.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I think Micro$oft's Delegate system to be quite hokey. Just give me regular function pointers to work with!
Exactly what I was thinking. But my C++ work tends to be relatively close to hardware with some desktop code mixed in, so I rarely if ever use the higher end stuff of C++. Need to read the next comment. :)
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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All my personal stuff ( a lot ) is on Linux
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
My first plan is to see how much I can do on a raspberry pi. Plug in a 1TB usb drive, and I think it will do everything I need it to do.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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My first plan is to see how much I can do on a raspberry pi. Plug in a 1TB usb drive, and I think it will do everything I need it to do.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Take a look at the new NVME hat for the 5. I am now also using macro pads on the Pi and Debian. Lazy man’s tool.
>64 It’s weird being the same age as old people. Live every day like it is your last; one day, it will be.
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So, I read this article: Easily navigate code delegates while debugging - Visual Studio Blog[^] and I am so glad, I just don't give a flying f*** anymore. I started doing serious Windows development in 2003. I inherited a project that used ActiveX controls. Just local, no downloads - all embedded system work. I have to plow through the changing terminology of COM, DCOM, COM++, ActiveX, etc. After 3 years, I declared it utter bull****. MS renaming things just to rename things for marketing purposes. So, I read this devblog article, and though delegates are somewhat different than function pointers, its the same old bs from Microsoft renaming stuff. Worse, I suspect it made it into the C++ standard. I don't know about that, nor do I care. Starting next week, I'm moving to linux.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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So, I read this article: Easily navigate code delegates while debugging - Visual Studio Blog[^] and I am so glad, I just don't give a flying f*** anymore. I started doing serious Windows development in 2003. I inherited a project that used ActiveX controls. Just local, no downloads - all embedded system work. I have to plow through the changing terminology of COM, DCOM, COM++, ActiveX, etc. After 3 years, I declared it utter bull****. MS renaming things just to rename things for marketing purposes. So, I read this devblog article, and though delegates are somewhat different than function pointers, its the same old bs from Microsoft renaming stuff. Worse, I suspect it made it into the C++ standard. I don't know about that, nor do I care. Starting next week, I'm moving to linux.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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To be honest, I'm floating the idea of switching to Linux for personal use. I make my living with Microsoft technologies, but for personal use, I'm considering what would be involved in switching. I'll be interested to see how you make out.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
I'm floating the idea of switching to Linux for personal use. I make my living with Microsoft technologies
I'm in the same boat. Can't abandon MS because of work (I've always worked for full-on MS shops), but given where MS is clearly headed, I'd rather not follow. I like tinkering with Linux in a VM, and have an old laptop or two running it directly on the hardware, but dedicating myself to it would be a tough transition.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Oh, and IMO it's a bit easier to do multithreaded work in C on Linux than Windows.
I love thread handling in C#. I can go high level and just let the framework do what it thinks it's best, or I can go low level and take complete control. And threads (aka async tasks) with awaits, while it can be a bit of a hurdle to sometimes realize what I did wrong and to how to break the chain of, oh, this method is now async, so the parent has to be async, oh wait, the grandparent now has to be async..., yeah, how to do deal with that takes some finesse, but I still love how C# implements the whole mess. ;)
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this method is now async, so the parent has to be async, oh wait, the grandparent now has to be async...
So much this. One of these days I'll have to actually sit down and take the time to study this and try to understand, once and for all, how to avoid getting yourself in that situation. Because right now I find myself avoiding using async/await because I see it as having to "retroactively pollute the entire codebase". And that can't be right, that *has* to be just me misunderstanding and misusing it.
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I think Micro$oft's Delegate system to be quite hokey. Just give me regular function pointers to work with!
swampwiz wrote:
Micro$oft's
How 1990's of you. Coming straight for Slashdot? (Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine. My perspective is, get over it, everybody does what they do for $ and if you're not, you're either lying or I don't know what part of the world you're from where everything is free).
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Not sure how you can draw that conclusion based off an SGML example. While I do concur the "rise" of XML and .NET were around the same time, that example stands independent of .NET, so I'm not sure what I failed to notice given the concept has nothing to do with managed code in and of itself and more to do with junior programmers of any generation knowing little of the past.
Jeremy Falcon
We just happened to be scaling more in the time of .NET. I don't think anything will ever dethrone VB/Office dev as making dev simpler, save maybe new AI things that don't yet exist but harken back to those "design by wizard" but with way way better wizards.
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I do have to admit man, while I've done very, very, very little multi-threading in C#, from what I've seen it does make it nice. More recent versions of C++ do as well.
Jeremy Falcon
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charlieg wrote:
So, I read this devblog article, and though delegates are somewhat different than function pointers, its the same old bs from Microsoft renaming stuff.
That's the difference between a senior and a junior dev. Juniors think they discovered fire half the time, but most things are rehash and rebranded with a tiny bit of newness. But, it's really the same ol' thing with a new bell and whistle. I still use the example of XML and SGML. While XML was more strict with its DTDs, the concept of XML or a DTD was nothing new. About 10+ years ago during the XML craze, you'd hear a lot of peeps swear they discovered fire with it... even though SGML has been around for years prior. Just rehashed stuff with a bit of umph added.
charlieg wrote:
Starting next week, I'm moving to linux.
You'll love it man. I've only done C and web dev on Linux, but the c lib at least has a surprising amount of functionality to it. A Linux box really does make a great dev box.
Jeremy Falcon
My XML hype period started around 2002. When ajax (x is for XML!) actually used XML on the wire. Then JSON came along and the security analysts have not had a good night’s sleep since. I still appreciate how easy it is to write a quick XSLT to extract _anything_ from an XML file.
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To be honest, I'm floating the idea of switching to Linux for personal use. I make my living with Microsoft technologies, but for personal use, I'm considering what would be involved in switching. I'll be interested to see how you make out.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
There's one or two programs that won't work, but I switched a few years back (to Linux Mint) and never looked back. By one or two programs, just about everything mainstream has a native version, or will run in Wine. Even most games (some still limited by flakey DRM). Some even run faster. The things I've not been able to get working are Samsung phone backup software and that kind of thing. And it's so fast (comparatively). I needed 16GB ram for Windows, on Linux I could make do with 8GB. That said, I have a feeling that on a laptop it's not as frugal with battery use. I don't have a laptop, but people who I know that do are telling me battery use is not as good. . . those same people are not ones that will have optimised anything though. Hope that helps.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
this method is now async, so the parent has to be async, oh wait, the grandparent now has to be async...
So much this. One of these days I'll have to actually sit down and take the time to study this and try to understand, once and for all, how to avoid getting yourself in that situation. Because right now I find myself avoiding using async/await because I see it as having to "retroactively pollute the entire codebase". And that can't be right, that *has* to be just me misunderstanding and misusing it.
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So, I read this article: Easily navigate code delegates while debugging - Visual Studio Blog[^] and I am so glad, I just don't give a flying f*** anymore. I started doing serious Windows development in 2003. I inherited a project that used ActiveX controls. Just local, no downloads - all embedded system work. I have to plow through the changing terminology of COM, DCOM, COM++, ActiveX, etc. After 3 years, I declared it utter bull****. MS renaming things just to rename things for marketing purposes. So, I read this devblog article, and though delegates are somewhat different than function pointers, its the same old bs from Microsoft renaming stuff. Worse, I suspect it made it into the C++ standard. I don't know about that, nor do I care. Starting next week, I'm moving to linux.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
By what you have said you must have started your career or at least invested some time of it to MS and MS technologies. So you are where you are today because of that experience. Something, I think, to be grateful for rather than just knocking MS. MS are not perfect by any means and have made mistakes. I'm a long term desktop dev and I am frustrated by how MS seems to be turning it's back on us desktop developers, but none of that would force me into abandoning a technology (that I make my living from) for another just because they don't do things the way I like. I too have thought about Linux, but only for fun and learning it's not a platform that I could make a living from as it's just not mainstream enough (do correct me if that's not the case). I'm pretty sure that using Linux and C++ is going to have it's issues too. The difference is that you are an intelligent guy and you will enjoy the intellectual load of learning something new, so you'll think it's better. To your point of changing terminology, specifically, of COM, DCOM, COM+ and ActiveX. Well that's not strictly speaking true, it's more than a change in terminology while they are all based on the original COM, DCOM is distributed (so COM over the network), COM+ added security and performance enhancements and ActiveX added OLE to COM I believe (to support ActiveX controls, but still have COM interfaces). So you could think of it as COMv1, COMv2, COMv3 and then ActiveX, (this in a time before MS versioning by year!) so more than just renaming.
