Anyone still know IBM RPG?
-
A customer showed me their internal system yesterday. It runs on an IBM AS/400 and it's written in IBM RPG. RPG was originally developed in 1959, but the latest stable version is from 2020. I must say it looks surprisingly modern: Coding in RPG IV - a beginner's tutorial[^] Not sure if that's also the version of RPG that their software is programmed in, but I'm guessing it isn't as it's 40-something years old. Other than that it looks like a fancy DOS program (colored letters on a white background, so no retro black/green, and completely keyboard driven, although mouse works too). Apparently, they've been trying to replace it for 25 years, but without much success. Meanwhile it's still actively being developed and their supplier has a development team just for this client (all other customers switched to the newer version of the product). My client is now looking into buying the entire product just so they can keep using it :omg: They could buy the product, but the programmers are of course in no way obliged to move with the software. My guess is they'll HAVE TO replace it in the coming ten years or so and it would be better to start working on a replacement NOW rather than buy something that's already obsolete. But just out of curiosity, how many here worked on RPG and how many still do, could and/or want to?
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
In 1998 a contractor came to our place of business to give a short course in RPG. I must say I was impressed with how primitive it was.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
-
A customer showed me their internal system yesterday. It runs on an IBM AS/400 and it's written in IBM RPG. RPG was originally developed in 1959, but the latest stable version is from 2020. I must say it looks surprisingly modern: Coding in RPG IV - a beginner's tutorial[^] Not sure if that's also the version of RPG that their software is programmed in, but I'm guessing it isn't as it's 40-something years old. Other than that it looks like a fancy DOS program (colored letters on a white background, so no retro black/green, and completely keyboard driven, although mouse works too). Apparently, they've been trying to replace it for 25 years, but without much success. Meanwhile it's still actively being developed and their supplier has a development team just for this client (all other customers switched to the newer version of the product). My client is now looking into buying the entire product just so they can keep using it :omg: They could buy the product, but the programmers are of course in no way obliged to move with the software. My guess is they'll HAVE TO replace it in the coming ten years or so and it would be better to start working on a replacement NOW rather than buy something that's already obsolete. But just out of curiosity, how many here worked on RPG and how many still do, could and/or want to?
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
You have to play as a Lawful Paladin.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
-
A customer showed me their internal system yesterday. It runs on an IBM AS/400 and it's written in IBM RPG. RPG was originally developed in 1959, but the latest stable version is from 2020. I must say it looks surprisingly modern: Coding in RPG IV - a beginner's tutorial[^] Not sure if that's also the version of RPG that their software is programmed in, but I'm guessing it isn't as it's 40-something years old. Other than that it looks like a fancy DOS program (colored letters on a white background, so no retro black/green, and completely keyboard driven, although mouse works too). Apparently, they've been trying to replace it for 25 years, but without much success. Meanwhile it's still actively being developed and their supplier has a development team just for this client (all other customers switched to the newer version of the product). My client is now looking into buying the entire product just so they can keep using it :omg: They could buy the product, but the programmers are of course in no way obliged to move with the software. My guess is they'll HAVE TO replace it in the coming ten years or so and it would be better to start working on a replacement NOW rather than buy something that's already obsolete. But just out of curiosity, how many here worked on RPG and how many still do, could and/or want to?
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
A customer showed me their internal system yesterday. It runs on an IBM AS/400 and it's written in IBM RPG. RPG was originally developed in 1959, but the latest stable version is from 2020. I must say it looks surprisingly modern: Coding in RPG IV - a beginner's tutorial[^] Not sure if that's also the version of RPG that their software is programmed in, but I'm guessing it isn't as it's 40-something years old. Other than that it looks like a fancy DOS program (colored letters on a white background, so no retro black/green, and completely keyboard driven, although mouse works too). Apparently, they've been trying to replace it for 25 years, but without much success. Meanwhile it's still actively being developed and their supplier has a development team just for this client (all other customers switched to the newer version of the product). My client is now looking into buying the entire product just so they can keep using it :omg: They could buy the product, but the programmers are of course in no way obliged to move with the software. My guess is they'll HAVE TO replace it in the coming ten years or so and it would be better to start working on a replacement NOW rather than buy something that's already obsolete. But just out of curiosity, how many here worked on RPG and how many still do, could and/or want to?
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
I worked for a company that did. They were starting to connect to the db using .net with an ec2 connection to replace the old green screen with a new website. It's been YEARS but I'm not sure they've completely gotten rid of it. They had about a half dozen rpg programmers at the time so it's not completely a dead language.
-
You have to play as a Lawful Paladin.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
I prefer to be neutral chaotic adventurer :rolleyes: :-D
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
Loved Clipper - my first paying language
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
My dad won't shut up about how great Clipper was and that everything that came after it is just a rip off :laugh:
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
You have to play as a Lawful Paladin.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
Wizard for life.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
Not young anymore, but too young still. That's my RPG : Role-playing video game - Wikipedia[^]
I'm especially fond of JRPG's :)
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
last time I saw that was 1996. Interesting how much "old" code is still around and needing support.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
If by "support" you mean "active development" then yes :D
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
You have to play as a Lawful Paladin.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
Always Chaotic Evil Sorcerer
-
I'm especially fond of JRPG's :)
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
Sander Rossel wrote:
I'm especially fond of JRPG's JSOP
Fixed that for you ;P
I'd have to be almost as old as RPG to know who that is :laugh: Haven't seen him around in ages, but then again, I'm not on here as much as I used to...
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
I worked for a company that did. They were starting to connect to the db using .net with an ec2 connection to replace the old green screen with a new website. It's been YEARS but I'm not sure they've completely gotten rid of it. They had about a half dozen rpg programmers at the time so it's not completely a dead language.
Kschuler wrote:
They had about a half dozen rpg programmers
With an average age of 80? :D Still, half a dozen ain't bad.
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
-
I prefer to be neutral chaotic adventurer :rolleyes: :-D
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
I first read that as neurotic casual adventurer...
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I first read that as neurotic casual adventurer...
Software Zen:
delete this;Sometimes is not that far... :rolleyes: :laugh: :laugh:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
In 1998 a contractor came to our place of business to give a short course in RPG. I must say I was impressed with how primitive it was.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
I must say I was impressed with how primitive it was.
I do not know RPG (except by name, for 40+ years), never programmed it, yet I am curious to your criteria for classifying RPG (or any other language as "primitive". Is it primarily because it is lacking certain features (if so: which features?) Or is it primarily for the way it is doing things? I am curious to how well such evaluation criteria - in a language independent from - would classify the languages of today, and their early versions, as "primitive". Was the original strostrup C++ language "primitive"? Was C&R C? Did C# start out as a "primitive" language, but at some version had developed to "non-primitive" and maybe later to "advanced"? I must admit that I think the last half dozen or so revisions of C++ and C# have brought "advanced" features that I'd rather be without!
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
-
Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
I must say I was impressed with how primitive it was.
I do not know RPG (except by name, for 40+ years), never programmed it, yet I am curious to your criteria for classifying RPG (or any other language as "primitive". Is it primarily because it is lacking certain features (if so: which features?) Or is it primarily for the way it is doing things? I am curious to how well such evaluation criteria - in a language independent from - would classify the languages of today, and their early versions, as "primitive". Was the original strostrup C++ language "primitive"? Was C&R C? Did C# start out as a "primitive" language, but at some version had developed to "non-primitive" and maybe later to "advanced"? I must admit that I think the last half dozen or so revisions of C++ and C# have brought "advanced" features that I'd rather be without!
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
I called it primitive due to its syntax and grammar, because it didn't really have any. This is what I recall from 1998: The function calls, literals, and parameters were entered on a single line by their column positions. For instance, a line that prints a file might look like the following:
PRN DATA K MQ
Where the parameters K, M and Q were codes for the options chosen and they must appear in their designated columns. The K could have been the number of lines to print and the M could have been which report format to use and the Q could have been a modifier of some sort. RPG was named for being a Report Generator language.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
-
A customer showed me their internal system yesterday. It runs on an IBM AS/400 and it's written in IBM RPG. RPG was originally developed in 1959, but the latest stable version is from 2020. I must say it looks surprisingly modern: Coding in RPG IV - a beginner's tutorial[^] Not sure if that's also the version of RPG that their software is programmed in, but I'm guessing it isn't as it's 40-something years old. Other than that it looks like a fancy DOS program (colored letters on a white background, so no retro black/green, and completely keyboard driven, although mouse works too). Apparently, they've been trying to replace it for 25 years, but without much success. Meanwhile it's still actively being developed and their supplier has a development team just for this client (all other customers switched to the newer version of the product). My client is now looking into buying the entire product just so they can keep using it :omg: They could buy the product, but the programmers are of course in no way obliged to move with the software. My guess is they'll HAVE TO replace it in the coming ten years or so and it would be better to start working on a replacement NOW rather than buy something that's already obsolete. But just out of curiosity, how many here worked on RPG and how many still do, could and/or want to?
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Sander Rossel wrote:
But just out of curiosity, how many here worked on RPG and how many still do, could and/or want to?
I've heard of it, does that count for something? :~
Jeremy Falcon
-
I called it primitive due to its syntax and grammar, because it didn't really have any. This is what I recall from 1998: The function calls, literals, and parameters were entered on a single line by their column positions. For instance, a line that prints a file might look like the following:
PRN DATA K MQ
Where the parameters K, M and Q were codes for the options chosen and they must appear in their designated columns. The K could have been the number of lines to print and the M could have been which report format to use and the Q could have been a modifier of some sort. RPG was named for being a Report Generator language.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
The function calls, literals, and parameters were entered on a single line by their column positions.
I guess I'd agree that this is sort of primitive :-) (But note that a modern, graphical UI based programming, could have boasted the input of parameter in separate input fields, displayed in fixed positions, as one of its notable features :-)).
RPG was named for being a Report Generator language.
From the days I knew it by name, that is what I know of it: A special purpose language, with requirements defined by this special purpose, not for its use as a general-purpose language. The impression I get from the Wikipedia articles about RPG (in its various versions) is that IBM has been trying to force its application domain to be extended far beyond report generation, way beyond. Many languages have been ruined by that kind of thinking, having 'features' added that do not belong in that language. One of fascinating things about dotNet (and similar virtual machine environments) is that it defines a platform where you can provide partial solutions in a multitude of languages: You use XAML for setting up user interfaces, C# for treating data input or output through these, LINQ for handling tabular data, you could in principle have dotNet modules handling array data in APL and string data in Snobol ... Generally speaking: You can create partial solutions in languages specifically tailored to that subproblem, rather than expanding your favorite language to handle every possible problem in the entire world, obviously at the expense of a tremendously complex language. Looking at the development of modern languages, it seems as if I am on a collision course with most language developers. Noone seems to be saying "We'll leave that to a module in a report generator language", or "matrix processing language", or "string processing language". They all cry for extensions for doing everything in their "home language", rather than leaving some jobs to the specialists. I am wishing for a programming language world where it is fair to say, "You can do this better than me". I am not holding my breath waiting for that to become reality.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
-
A customer showed me their internal system yesterday. It runs on an IBM AS/400 and it's written in IBM RPG. RPG was originally developed in 1959, but the latest stable version is from 2020. I must say it looks surprisingly modern: Coding in RPG IV - a beginner's tutorial[^] Not sure if that's also the version of RPG that their software is programmed in, but I'm guessing it isn't as it's 40-something years old. Other than that it looks like a fancy DOS program (colored letters on a white background, so no retro black/green, and completely keyboard driven, although mouse works too). Apparently, they've been trying to replace it for 25 years, but without much success. Meanwhile it's still actively being developed and their supplier has a development team just for this client (all other customers switched to the newer version of the product). My client is now looking into buying the entire product just so they can keep using it :omg: They could buy the product, but the programmers are of course in no way obliged to move with the software. My guess is they'll HAVE TO replace it in the coming ten years or so and it would be better to start working on a replacement NOW rather than buy something that's already obsolete. But just out of curiosity, how many here worked on RPG and how many still do, could and/or want to?
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
Sander Rossel wrote:
My guess is they'll HAVE TO replace it in the coming ten years or so and it would be better to start working on a replacement NOW
I :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I think this should be called the ostrich development method! Sooo many organisations do this.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
