From SD Magazine... Java vs C++
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
> As for C#, Microsoft’s pride and joy, it’s not even a flyspeck on the map yet. This was the line that cracked me up. C# is still in beta, of course no one is going to be using it fully yet. Michael :-)
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
What is he talking about when he says that Java and C++ programs run at comparable speeds (a few ms that users will not notice) on the current desktops? He does not seem to have a clue of what he is saying. Have anyone done a benchmarking lately - like writing a small app that does the same thing in C++ and Java and running it on a Windows or Linux or even Solaris. I think Java will become faster and usable, if they give an option to compile to native code, although it takes away the binary compatibility advantage - but, I think that that is not an issue for most people. They can compile and distribute applications for each platform. What is the expected performance degradation with C#? Do anyone know it vis-a-vis Java? The last time I used Java to do something on a WindowsNT machine, it was painstakingly slow and it was not a choice for me. As a server-side platform, how does Java perform for non-web applications. These are applications that keep a socket connection open and have large number of requests per connection. Not all servers are web-based. For example, is IBM DB2 or Oracle DB servers written in Java? - Thomas
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
Ok, I worked in the company which decided to rewrite its middleware product from MS VC++ to Java, and I have some of my personal experiences (bitter ones). What this guy is saying is pure propaganda (play Lenon's Imagine while reading). Shortly, I've seen and tested some of Java components versus DCOM/MTS, and guess what - java is incredibly slow!I have full bag on the issue and I can fill whole book. Also, for debugging issuse - yes, Bounds Checker is wonderful tool - and I'm using it, but I have also used it's counterpart JCheck on java, and it comes to same thing - very bad programming and design, and I don't accept that C++ inherently allows you to make more bugs. I've seen also horrible bugs in java due to bad design. Sorry, I just had to relieve anger in this short time, which was accumulated in me during those days. Aleksandar Kostic
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Ok, I worked in the company which decided to rewrite its middleware product from MS VC++ to Java, and I have some of my personal experiences (bitter ones). What this guy is saying is pure propaganda (play Lenon's Imagine while reading). Shortly, I've seen and tested some of Java components versus DCOM/MTS, and guess what - java is incredibly slow!I have full bag on the issue and I can fill whole book. Also, for debugging issuse - yes, Bounds Checker is wonderful tool - and I'm using it, but I have also used it's counterpart JCheck on java, and it comes to same thing - very bad programming and design, and I don't accept that C++ inherently allows you to make more bugs. I've seen also horrible bugs in java due to bad design. Sorry, I just had to relieve anger in this short time, which was accumulated in me during those days. Aleksandar Kostic
From what you said, I understand that there were no UI part and still Java was very slow than VC++. The last time I tried Java (on a test program), it was very slow (but was 2 yrs before). Has anyone seen peformance comparisons of Java vs C++ on solaris machines? - Thomas
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Ok, I worked in the company which decided to rewrite its middleware product from MS VC++ to Java, and I have some of my personal experiences (bitter ones). What this guy is saying is pure propaganda (play Lenon's Imagine while reading). Shortly, I've seen and tested some of Java components versus DCOM/MTS, and guess what - java is incredibly slow!I have full bag on the issue and I can fill whole book. Also, for debugging issuse - yes, Bounds Checker is wonderful tool - and I'm using it, but I have also used it's counterpart JCheck on java, and it comes to same thing - very bad programming and design, and I don't accept that C++ inherently allows you to make more bugs. I've seen also horrible bugs in java due to bad design. Sorry, I just had to relieve anger in this short time, which was accumulated in me during those days. Aleksandar Kostic
Hello. your correct !!! I have the same experience , working for a client who absolutly want is program to be in java. the thing that the article did'nt say is the lake of componant support , thing like EJB are still in developpement and incredibly slow and specific to each vendor. what really make me angry , is that in most case people want to switch to java because of the press , not for technical reason not even for portability. and this kind of article is the cause .. long life to c++ Gilles Dassac NeverSo France gilles@neverso.com
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From what you said, I understand that there were no UI part and still Java was very slow than VC++. The last time I tried Java (on a test program), it was very slow (but was 2 yrs before). Has anyone seen peformance comparisons of Java vs C++ on solaris machines? - Thomas
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
He said that 800 Mhz comps are cheap these days which is true but why should a developer force it's user base to upgrade if they don't need to? All of the software I have made for myself I created on a 700 celeron and I have run it without degradation on 166Mhz and less! Besides I tried java once just to make a simple web applet and there is no uniformity to it. But I guess it just goes to show that crack kills. -Matt Newman :suss:
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He said that 800 Mhz comps are cheap these days which is true but why should a developer force it's user base to upgrade if they don't need to? All of the software I have made for myself I created on a 700 celeron and I have run it without degradation on 166Mhz and less! Besides I tried java once just to make a simple web applet and there is no uniformity to it. But I guess it just goes to show that crack kills. -Matt Newman :suss:
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
Glad to read all that you all have said :-D Reading that article for a moment i thought i was in another planet ... :eek: By the way what the hell is wrong with the press??? Anybody knows that java just stinks. Why the hell is the propaganda for? :mad: The press is supposed to tell the truth, isn't it?
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Glad to read all that you all have said :-D Reading that article for a moment i thought i was in another planet ... :eek: By the way what the hell is wrong with the press??? Anybody knows that java just stinks. Why the hell is the propaganda for? :mad: The press is supposed to tell the truth, isn't it?
The press is supposed to tell the truth, isn't it? Woah - where did you hear that? The press doesn't care about truth, they care about readership and money. Truth doesn't come into it. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
I have always wanted to program in Java simply as a change of pace from C++ and to see what it was like to work in a "pure" OO language. However, my experience was the same as every listed here. Not only that but I have used several web based applications programed in Java and they were simply unusable. Not just slow, but with absolutely laughable UI. On the bright side, consider that sooner or later the world *must* rediscover C/C++ (unless C# turns out to be trully remarkable technology). When that happens this crowd will be in tall cotton. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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This guy's a Java bigot, but I thought some might be interested in what he's spouting (brewing?) in public: http://www.sdtimes.com/cols/javawatch.htm Steven J. Ackerman, Consultant ACS, Sarasota, FL http://www.acscontrol.com steve@acscontrol.com sja@gte.net
- "somehow, Java would become the No. 1 programming language in the world" - "Java programmers aren’t just writing applets, it seems." - "is there a C programmer alive who hasn’t ripped his or her hair out over something that should be as simple as debugging a double-linked list" <sigh> Obviously the article is aimed at non-programmers. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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The press is supposed to tell the truth, isn't it? Woah - where did you hear that? The press doesn't care about truth, they care about readership and money. Truth doesn't come into it. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
Bingo! :) /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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I have always wanted to program in Java simply as a change of pace from C++ and to see what it was like to work in a "pure" OO language. However, my experience was the same as every listed here. Not only that but I have used several web based applications programed in Java and they were simply unusable. Not just slow, but with absolutely laughable UI. On the bright side, consider that sooner or later the world *must* rediscover C/C++ (unless C# turns out to be trully remarkable technology). When that happens this crowd will be in tall cotton. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
I think you may have extraneous CRLFs in your sig. It can make your replies harder to read. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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I think you may have extraneous CRLFs in your sig. It can make your replies harder to read. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
Sorry, looked fine on my 21" monitor.:-O "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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- "somehow, Java would become the No. 1 programming language in the world" - "Java programmers aren’t just writing applets, it seems." - "is there a C programmer alive who hasn’t ripped his or her hair out over something that should be as simple as debugging a double-linked list" <sigh> Obviously the article is aimed at non-programmers. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
Yeah, I really spend a lot of time on those pesky double-linked list these days.:) "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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Yeah, I really spend a lot of time on those pesky double-linked list these days.:) "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
never used (at least consciously) a list let alone double-linked it. I kind of wonder if this guy is even a programmer. -Matt Newman :suss: