Commercial Work?
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
I've thought about that in the past, too. I worried about the system for distributing profits, though. It seems likely that someone is going to question the fairness of money distribution. Is it based on who wrote the most lines of code (a questionable method for determining "effort"). If so, what about the person who did the high level design, which doesn't add to "lines of code". What's the value of a bug fix (which might add little or no lines of code)? What's the value of ideas? (For example, if someone comes up with an idea that saves weeks of work or doubles the number of sales?) I'm a little scared of those kinds of questions because it seems that people could get into a fight pretty easily when money is involved. If all members receive equal payout then people who did more work might resent the people who aren't pulling their own weight - or worse: they joined the project but then became apathetic and did nothing. One possibility is that members could vote for other members. Example: John did a lot of work, I give him 3 points. Bill did nothing, he gets 0 points. That can be abused, too (give your votes to me and I'll give my votes to you). In the end, I'm not quite sure how to resolve these problems. With conventional companies, you can at least rely on people being forced to be at work for 40 hours a week, and their pay doesn't affect how much you get paid (so they aren't stealing money from me by taking more profits than they are worth). That doesn't mean these problems are unresolvable. It's just hard to find good solutions. ------------------------------------------ The ousted but stubbornly non-dead leader reportedly released an audiotape this weekend, ending by calling on Iraqis to, quote, "resist the occupation in any way you can, from writing on walls, to boycotting, to demonstrating and taking up arms." adding, "you know, pretty much anything I used to kill you for." - The Daily Show
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I've thought about that in the past, too. I worried about the system for distributing profits, though. It seems likely that someone is going to question the fairness of money distribution. Is it based on who wrote the most lines of code (a questionable method for determining "effort"). If so, what about the person who did the high level design, which doesn't add to "lines of code". What's the value of a bug fix (which might add little or no lines of code)? What's the value of ideas? (For example, if someone comes up with an idea that saves weeks of work or doubles the number of sales?) I'm a little scared of those kinds of questions because it seems that people could get into a fight pretty easily when money is involved. If all members receive equal payout then people who did more work might resent the people who aren't pulling their own weight - or worse: they joined the project but then became apathetic and did nothing. One possibility is that members could vote for other members. Example: John did a lot of work, I give him 3 points. Bill did nothing, he gets 0 points. That can be abused, too (give your votes to me and I'll give my votes to you). In the end, I'm not quite sure how to resolve these problems. With conventional companies, you can at least rely on people being forced to be at work for 40 hours a week, and their pay doesn't affect how much you get paid (so they aren't stealing money from me by taking more profits than they are worth). That doesn't mean these problems are unresolvable. It's just hard to find good solutions. ------------------------------------------ The ousted but stubbornly non-dead leader reportedly released an audiotape this weekend, ending by calling on Iraqis to, quote, "resist the occupation in any way you can, from writing on walls, to boycotting, to demonstrating and taking up arms." adding, "you know, pretty much anything I used to kill you for." - The Daily Show
Maybe you could start it off simple - maybe just a referal system for software consultants. Say a software consultant gets a contracct at a place doing some govenernment work and it turns out to be a lot more work than he bargained for, or some things are outside of his specialization. He can let his manager know that he can tap into this resource for offloading some specialized tasks to a software co-operative that he is part of. It could then be tacked onto his invoice.
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On one level it's a great idea. But imagine the politicking, mediation and litigation that would be required to divy up the cash (on those projects that actually made any). I doubt there would be any left over for the actual contributors.:sigh::doh:
Joey Bloggs wrote: On one level it's a great idea. But imagine the politicking, mediation and litigation that would be required to divy up the cash (on those projects that actually made any). I doubt there would be any left over for the actual contributors. I was thinking the same thing. I think on a project as describe it would behoove all involved to have spelled out in writing--and a signed an aknowledgement of that agreement--who is entitled to what. Otherwise, if fortune is in their favor, each coder will realize that it was their work that was most valuable to the project and thus it is he/she that deserve the biggest reward. There is no honor amongst thieves, stock holders, and business partners...
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
www.asynchrony.com If you compare the "finished projects" to "open projects" ratio, you get a fair idea how good it is. I like the idea as such, but having a cachy project title isnÄt the best way to gather a team.
"Dor säggsische Dialeggt eechnet sich wie keeen onderor für den Ausdrugg zäärdlischor Gefiehle."
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen -
Very, Very close! But I worry about things like "Lion's share" when it comes to getting paid and the idea that the company would be handling the end product. Wouldn't it be good to have a site that simply allows groups to form and then the groups have full and complete control? They can bring in people for marketing, investments, management, not just development. Have you worked in any of the groups at Asynchrony? Rocky Moore <><
Rocky Moore wrote: Have you worked in any of the groups at Asynchrony? Nope. Weiye, Chen When pursuing your dreams, don't forget to enjoy your life...
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Well you could start it up yourself - although it sounds like a lot of work. I actually wrote something up on this called a "software co-operative" idea. I could send it to you if you are interested.
JWood wrote: I could send it to you if you are interested. Sure, I would welcome it! A business model such as this, has been lurking in my mind for years as it problably has for thousands of others. If we (developers) could actually rise up and build something that would allow everyone to receive from their hard work, I think some big companies would have to get serious with their employees and might just make things better for all developers. Rocky Moore <><
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I've thought about that in the past, too. I worried about the system for distributing profits, though. It seems likely that someone is going to question the fairness of money distribution. Is it based on who wrote the most lines of code (a questionable method for determining "effort"). If so, what about the person who did the high level design, which doesn't add to "lines of code". What's the value of a bug fix (which might add little or no lines of code)? What's the value of ideas? (For example, if someone comes up with an idea that saves weeks of work or doubles the number of sales?) I'm a little scared of those kinds of questions because it seems that people could get into a fight pretty easily when money is involved. If all members receive equal payout then people who did more work might resent the people who aren't pulling their own weight - or worse: they joined the project but then became apathetic and did nothing. One possibility is that members could vote for other members. Example: John did a lot of work, I give him 3 points. Bill did nothing, he gets 0 points. That can be abused, too (give your votes to me and I'll give my votes to you). In the end, I'm not quite sure how to resolve these problems. With conventional companies, you can at least rely on people being forced to be at work for 40 hours a week, and their pay doesn't affect how much you get paid (so they aren't stealing money from me by taking more profits than they are worth). That doesn't mean these problems are unresolvable. It's just hard to find good solutions. ------------------------------------------ The ousted but stubbornly non-dead leader reportedly released an audiotape this weekend, ending by calling on Iraqis to, quote, "resist the occupation in any way you can, from writing on walls, to boycotting, to demonstrating and taking up arms." adding, "you know, pretty much anything I used to kill you for." - The Daily Show
Brit wrote: Is it based on who wrote the most lines of code (a questionable method for determining "effort"). Exactly the point! It would be recommended for people to base their assessments on "effort" involved that week (or whatever cycle they agree on) and not by value. A person designing a web page for a request for information me not be considered as great of "value" as the person who is architecting a solution to a complex problem, but they should earn equally to be fair. Brit wrote: Example: John did a lot of work, I give him 3 points. Bill did nothing, he gets 0 points. That can be abused, too (give your votes to me and I'll give my votes to you). Yes, this could be a problem, but I think it would be less of a problem if the voting was public and people could question the validity of the votes. There would be fighting as is in anything when authority is shared. That would be a given. After a few projects though, I think that that are out-of-line with everyone would be clearly shown from their past work and voting history. Might have the ability to add comments to a person's profile such as eBay does except to allow for explanations instead of one-sided comments. Remember, this is a shared authority, so if you suspect a person of doing wrong you simply vote them off the island ;) There rules here would not be dictated by the site but by the project. People would be free to set whatever agreements they like. If they want the original idea holder to have 90% of all the project that is their business. People could use share points as cash on the system to pay people for work. You do this and we will assign you 50 share points, which if the product sold well, might bring you a few thousand for your work. Personally, I would only work for one that allowed even divisions based on your contributions. I guess the primary idea here, is a site to provide an environment to allow people to come together and collaborate on work where their payment is pure speculation on future revenue. A place where people can post their abilities, ideas and receive solicitations of work. The site itself would handle the work to track share points, member voting and other collaboration tools. The main point for developers is that they will receive payment for their work for as long as that work is used instead of one time fees or salaries. The projects would have to spell out quite clearly though what type of sharing model they are using and wha
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Maybe you could start it off simple - maybe just a referal system for software consultants. Say a software consultant gets a contracct at a place doing some govenernment work and it turns out to be a lot more work than he bargained for, or some things are outside of his specialization. He can let his manager know that he can tap into this resource for offloading some specialized tasks to a software co-operative that he is part of. It could then be tacked onto his invoice.
JWood wrote: It could then be tacked onto his invoice. Yeah, but then you are back to just another consulting service, hiring out the cheapest labor for outsourced tasks, right? The primary focus I see, it a shared profits model were you earn for your work as long as your work is used. I like the idea of starting out simple though. A site could go a long way by just providing a basic networking service to bring ideas and the people who can bring those ideas to fruition with an understanding that all projects will be based on shared profits. Rocky Moore <><
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www.asynchrony.com If you compare the "finished projects" to "open projects" ratio, you get a fair idea how good it is. I like the idea as such, but having a cachy project title isnÄt the best way to gather a team.
"Dor säggsische Dialeggt eechnet sich wie keeen onderor für den Ausdrugg zäärdlischor Gefiehle."
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygenpeterchen wrote: I like the idea as such, but having a cachy project title isn't the best way to gather a team. I totally agree. That is why I would suggest a method of being able to search a list of abilites and try to find people who you believe would work well on the project and be able to solicit their membership. Maybe there is a small part that no one on your team know well enough to implement, but someone else out there has the perfect skills. You simply solicit their services for that feature and give them (x) amount of share points for their work. This would allow them to make money in the future on the project if it turns a profit. One of the important factors is that as a share holder you have a vote (although it may be small) and own a part of the product. Rocky Moore <><
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
There is also the software contractors guild: http://www.scguild.com/
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There is also the software contractors guild: http://www.scguild.com/
JWood wrote: There is also the software contractors guild: Isn't that just for contracting for a "Fee", not for profit sharing? Rocky Moore <><