Toe The Line?
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Are you contributing meaningfully or just spouting garbage? I signed up as bart. That is my real name! Go on and 'Pour a bucket of sun' over the whole country. While you are doing that remember Oklahoma! Remember the initial reaction, subsequent findings and punishment! Did anyone nuke the criminal and his country? How old are u BTW. bart :rose
Go on and 'Pour a bucket of sun' over the whole country. While you are doing that remember Oklahoma! Remember the initial reaction, subsequent findings and punishment! Did anyone nuke the criminal and his country? The difference is that we had no evidence pointing to Bin Laden or any other Arab terrorists in Oklahoma City. Here, we've already got a money trail, wire transfers, identities of the hijackers...we know who did it, and now we're planning a retaliation against them.
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Are you contributing meaningfully or just spouting garbage? I signed up as bart. That is my real name! Go on and 'Pour a bucket of sun' over the whole country. While you are doing that remember Oklahoma! Remember the initial reaction, subsequent findings and punishment! Did anyone nuke the criminal and his country? How old are u BTW. bart :rose
I am sure Dave Cunningham will remember me! I have actually spoken to him and Troy as well (over the phone). I exist, am real and I AM ALLOWED TO THINK RATIONALLY! bart ps I use Call Alert because I cannot seem to fix my old login as email address has changed (cue chris)
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Go on and 'Pour a bucket of sun' over the whole country. While you are doing that remember Oklahoma! Remember the initial reaction, subsequent findings and punishment! Did anyone nuke the criminal and his country? The difference is that we had no evidence pointing to Bin Laden or any other Arab terrorists in Oklahoma City. Here, we've already got a money trail, wire transfers, identities of the hijackers...we know who did it, and now we're planning a retaliation against them.
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I am sure Dave Cunningham will remember me! I have actually spoken to him and Troy as well (over the phone). I exist, am real and I AM ALLOWED TO THINK RATIONALLY! bart ps I use Call Alert because I cannot seem to fix my old login as email address has changed (cue chris)
I use Call Alert because I cannot seem to fix my old login as email address has changed (cue chris) If you remember you password you can fix the email yourself. If your email changed and you don't know you password then we send Christian around to have a word with you about changing email adresses *before* you lose access to your old box ;) Send me an email and I'll fix it. I'll need some proof of ID for the old box. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
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and your name is.........? Well we can all speculate, but come out, come out whoever you are. I say "pour a bucket of sun" over the whole damn country and have done with it". BTW: "bucket of sun" refers to nuking the bastards. Norm Almond Chief Technical Architect FS Walker Hughes Limited
I say "pour a bucket of sun" over the whole damn country and have done with it". You think the whole country is involved in this, and not just the occupying rulers? cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
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Come on, there is tons of proof that existed well before the WTC attack of his involvement in terrorism. Any reasonable country would honor the request just based on that information. Anybody who thinks the Taliban had ANY intention of handing him over is just fooling themselves. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
I do not think that the request was based on 'tons of proof that existed well before the WTC attack of his involvement in terrorism'. President Bush did not say he was wanted for previous acts. I am not saying he is, or isn't guilty. Tell me that what i say is all wrong and then explain it to me. bart :rose:
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I say "pour a bucket of sun" over the whole damn country and have done with it". You think the whole country is involved in this, and not just the occupying rulers? cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
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I do not think that the request was based on 'tons of proof that existed well before the WTC attack of his involvement in terrorism'. President Bush did not say he was wanted for previous acts. I am not saying he is, or isn't guilty. Tell me that what i say is all wrong and then explain it to me. bart :rose:
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Its nice of u to know who did it. Is that the point of what i asked? Now answer me carefully. Did the Taliban also have this money trail etc? NO I seem to remember that all that came after the request for the criminal. bart :rose:
Its nice of u to know who did it. Is that the point of what i asked? Now answer me carefully. Did the Taliban also have this money trail etc? NO I seem to remember that all that came after the request for the criminal. Osama Bin Laden was a known terrorist before these attacks. As Tim said, a reasonable country would have handed him over purely on that knowledge. They refused to. We should not need to provide any more proof to the Taliban, but instead of doing anything too quickly, we're releasing evidence and giving them a chance to hand Bin Laden over. No, they didn't have this money trail ahead of time, but again, Bin Laden was not just recently found to be a terrorist. The Taliban, and the rest of the world, have known about him for years.
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Its nice of u to know who did it. Is that the point of what i asked? Now answer me carefully. Did the Taliban also have this money trail etc? NO I seem to remember that all that came after the request for the criminal. bart :rose:
Heh, I can just see it now. The Taliban leaders see the proof, slap their foreheads and then say, "OMG, we were so wrong. Here he is.". RIIIIIIIIIIGHT. Don't forget, the Taliban had him under house arrest (snicker). If they were serious about it, then why did they let him go? Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
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Go on and 'Pour a bucket of sun' over the whole country. While you are doing that remember Oklahoma! Remember the initial reaction, subsequent findings and punishment! Did anyone nuke the criminal and his country? The difference is that we had no evidence pointing to Bin Laden or any other Arab terrorists in Oklahoma City. Here, we've already got a money trail, wire transfers, identities of the hijackers...we know who did it, and now we're planning a retaliation against them.
As for pouring a bucket of sun over the whole country I disagree. We need concrete proof and there is none! Retaliation is not the answer. In civilised society, if someone murders someone we take them to court to get justice and try them. As long as we have evidence! SO FAR THERE IS NONE! Don't forget a bucket of sun would affect the whole world and us. The effects would be catastrophic! Only a group of sick individuals are responsible for this (whoever they are) and they need to be brought to justice. Also what right does the govt have in using its superpower status to bully other countries into helping them? Give undeniable proof. Bin Laden has already said it wasn't him and so far we know him not to be a liar as he admitted his involvement in the Embassy bombing. And isn't it weird that big leads were left - arabic pilot training manuals and a Koran were found. Let's be honest if Bin Laden and his associates carried out these atrocities with such professionalism and extreme care in planning and precision. Do you really think they would leave any evidence like that? I think not and it's probably a false trail! We need to widen the search. Find out who did this and why? It is wrong for the govt to go bullying other countries and except them to toe/tow :-D the line without any substantial proof! Rich
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It appears that anyone who has any other opinion than 'nuke em' etc is getting slammed! Why is this so? I do not condone what happened in NY an Washington, but it has happened. WE DO NOT KNOW WHO DID IT nor WHY!!!!! We can only discuss and I do not think we can make policy. Is there anyone here who wants the wrong person or people to pay for this atrocity? I do not think so. There are many points to consider, for example: The Taliban asked for evidence when President Bush requested that they hand over Osama bin Laden. This request was refused! Normally, for extradition purposes, evidence is submitted by the requesting party. This time it is - HAND HIM OVER, WHAT DO YOU NEED EVIDENCE FOR? WE WANT HIM OR ELSE... Now, slam me as well! (May they rest in peace :rose: ) bart
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The assumption that if proof was given, he would be turned over. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
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The request should have been accompanied by proof. Requesting any country to hand over a criminal requires proof/evidence that will stand up to scritiny by that country! Bart
Unless that proof were obtained through confidential sources. Revelation of the proof would then be a revelation of those confidential sources thereby causing more damage than good. (I.E. loss of access to the information, loss of life of the sources themselves, etc.) Yeah I know that sounds like BS, but if you don't like it too bad. Even news reporters here in the US don't have to reveal their confidential sources. There is also a thing in the US called a Grand Jury. Grand Juries are conducted in secret because revelation of the sources of information are considered too sensitive, among other things. So we see there is a precedent for not sharing certain kinds of information. -added after original post- The diplomats from the various nations understand all of these concepts and all of the ramifications of their various decisions (well most of the time). They have much more experience doing this than your average C++ programmer :). -Sean ---- "Vigilance With Pride"
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As for pouring a bucket of sun over the whole country I disagree. We need concrete proof and there is none! Retaliation is not the answer. In civilised society, if someone murders someone we take them to court to get justice and try them. As long as we have evidence! SO FAR THERE IS NONE! Don't forget a bucket of sun would affect the whole world and us. The effects would be catastrophic! Only a group of sick individuals are responsible for this (whoever they are) and they need to be brought to justice. Also what right does the govt have in using its superpower status to bully other countries into helping them? Give undeniable proof. Bin Laden has already said it wasn't him and so far we know him not to be a liar as he admitted his involvement in the Embassy bombing. And isn't it weird that big leads were left - arabic pilot training manuals and a Koran were found. Let's be honest if Bin Laden and his associates carried out these atrocities with such professionalism and extreme care in planning and precision. Do you really think they would leave any evidence like that? I think not and it's probably a false trail! We need to widen the search. Find out who did this and why? It is wrong for the govt to go bullying other countries and except them to toe/tow :-D the line without any substantial proof! Rich
Bin Laden could have pulled the trigger and some people would still rationalize away all the proof. OMG, I read more of your message. You honestly believe what Bin Laden says because he admitted involvement in other attacks? What makes you think that a murderer would give a second thought to lying. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
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Unless that proof were obtained through confidential sources. Revelation of the proof would then be a revelation of those confidential sources thereby causing more damage than good. (I.E. loss of access to the information, loss of life of the sources themselves, etc.) Yeah I know that sounds like BS, but if you don't like it too bad. Even news reporters here in the US don't have to reveal their confidential sources. There is also a thing in the US called a Grand Jury. Grand Juries are conducted in secret because revelation of the sources of information are considered too sensitive, among other things. So we see there is a precedent for not sharing certain kinds of information. -added after original post- The diplomats from the various nations understand all of these concepts and all of the ramifications of their various decisions (well most of the time). They have much more experience doing this than your average C++ programmer :). -Sean ---- "Vigilance With Pride"
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Heh, I can just see it now. The Taliban leaders see the proof, slap their foreheads and then say, "OMG, we were so wrong. Here he is.". RIIIIIIIIIIGHT. Don't forget, the Taliban had him under house arrest (snicker). If they were serious about it, then why did they let him go? Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
You have missed the point!! You must have expected the Taliban to say:- TALIBAN 1: 'Oh, the great big brothers from the west want someone in our country. Lets hand him over quick, they might throw a few sheckels our way' TALIBAN 2: 'What do they want him for?' TALIBAN 3: 'DOESN'T MATTER, YOU OLD BEARDED FOOL! JUST HAND HIM OVER' fx: music to close!!
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NO, the point is that no proof was given even after they asked for proof. No one can say if they will have handed him over! bart :rose: (musn't forget my name and rose)