Oh My Poor Students!
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Motivation is probably a teacher's most inmportant job. No teacher ever taught me anything - I learned it myself with the teacher's expectations and encouragement to motivate me. I do encourage them, tell them how important these basic steps are in their daily lives. I try to give them real world examples, too - show them how to compare loan deals to make sure they're not being cheated, to calculate payoffs from shady insurance scams, to cheat the tax man by using the most profitable inventory valuation method for their respective businesses. It's not always easy to come up with meaningful examples, but I can tell from the lights in their eyes when I'm hitting home. But if they won't try. there's not a heck of a lot I can do....:( "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: I do encourage them, tell them how important these basic steps are in their daily lives. I try to give them real world examples, too Good. I thought so - you seem to be conscientious about your job/role. :) Roger Wright wrote: But if they won't try. there's not a heck of a lot I can do.... True. :sigh:
**"Have a heart that never hardens, a temper that never tires, a touch that never hurts." -- Charles Dickens
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LunaticFringe wrote: (You weren't home-schooled, were you, David?) Absolutely. :-D Proud of it too.
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
David Stone wrote: LunaticFringe wrote: (You weren't home-schooled, were you, David?) Absolutely. Proud of it too. Same here - homeschooled and proud of it. :-D
**"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." -- Jimi Hendrix
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Paul Watson wrote: So, both parties should be striving for excellence. I agree! But that means that it's Roger's responsibility to not rubber-stamp them because someone else taught them it's OK to screw off. If they don't deserve to pass, they don't deserve to pass, regardless of who's fault it is (assuming Roger's in the clear :) ).
I concede, you are right. But it angers me because the system is not going to change because these kids were failed. Next year they will struggle again, some will figure out they just have to submit to the system and do it, others will quit the course, others will fail all over again. The curriculum board, the system administrators, the professors and teachers will just blame the kids. Roger doesn't because he is not in the system full-time, he is still an outsider to it. Anyway. I don't think schools and many varsity courses have the right end of the stick. Going on my school record, those infallible numbers, I should be a ditch digger or working at McDonalds. But I am not, I am doing pretty well. The real world I get. Some of those boffins in school, the straight A guys... they are not doing so well. One served me a beer the other day. It is harsh because they are clever clogs, they have much to give the world but the system never prepared them, never showed them that the real world does not work like school. They trusted the system, never questioned it (which is a bad thing IMO) and had the wind knocked out of them by real life. I guess all in all neither side should be blaming each other. Both sides should *want* success, they want the same thing; Educated human beings. We should get back to basics and start a slow but steady revision of the system and the attitudes and expectations that parents teach kids. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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Rob Manderson wrote: it doesn't seem as though the course is compulsory (in the same way that math is at high school). That's one thing I really don't understand. These people aren't being forced into college as they were forced into high school. They choose to go and tuition isn't exactly cheap. So why don't they actually try to learn? :doh:
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
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Rob Manderson wrote: it doesn't seem as though the course is compulsory (in the same way that math is at high school). That's one thing I really don't understand. These people aren't being forced into college as they were forced into high school. They choose to go and tuition isn't exactly cheap. So why don't they actually try to learn? :doh:
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
David Stone wrote: So why don't they actually try to learn? Don't forget that the world is full of distractions... If you are not careful, it could do you harm. :suss: Weiye, Chen When pursuing your dreams, don't forget to enjoy your life...
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I concede, you are right. But it angers me because the system is not going to change because these kids were failed. Next year they will struggle again, some will figure out they just have to submit to the system and do it, others will quit the course, others will fail all over again. The curriculum board, the system administrators, the professors and teachers will just blame the kids. Roger doesn't because he is not in the system full-time, he is still an outsider to it. Anyway. I don't think schools and many varsity courses have the right end of the stick. Going on my school record, those infallible numbers, I should be a ditch digger or working at McDonalds. But I am not, I am doing pretty well. The real world I get. Some of those boffins in school, the straight A guys... they are not doing so well. One served me a beer the other day. It is harsh because they are clever clogs, they have much to give the world but the system never prepared them, never showed them that the real world does not work like school. They trusted the system, never questioned it (which is a bad thing IMO) and had the wind knocked out of them by real life. I guess all in all neither side should be blaming each other. Both sides should *want* success, they want the same thing; Educated human beings. We should get back to basics and start a slow but steady revision of the system and the attitudes and expectations that parents teach kids. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
Y'know, being as I'm in that iffy age between 49 and 50 it occurs to me that it's my generation who have let things come to this pass. Which puzzles me mightily given that I attended a lower working class school focussed on producing factory fodder. Surely those of us who managed to break out of that milieu should have known better? No, I don't believe that all school administrators grew up in Footscray :) Nor do I believe they all grew up in Toorak. I really do puzzle over it though. I pose (for example) the question of 'how did we get into the situation where kids think they don't need to read cuz there's a Disney movie of the book'? Who taught them to believe that? The only answer I can honestly find is 'we did'. Too many years of let's find the easy way to do something made us teach our kids that honest work is for the gloopy ones - the smart ones find a shortcut. Uh huh - my grandmother thought the same of her son. And i'm sure her grandmother thought the same of her. Yet surely there has to come a time when one protests at the laziness that lets a 12 year old boy feel he's martyring himself by going hungry rather than walk the 200 yards to the local MacDonalds*? *True story. When I started living here Andrew asked me to drive him to MacDonalds for lunch. I said 'we can walk there in 3 minutes.'. He declined and spent the entire afternoon playing the martyr. Notice I said 'we'. I don't ask him to do anything I wouldn't be prepared to do myself. Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net "I killed him dead cuz he was stepping on my turf, cutting me out of my bling the same way my ho cuts cookies, officer" "Alright then, move along" - Ian Darling, The Lounge, Oct 10 2003
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Motivation is probably a teacher's most inmportant job. No teacher ever taught me anything - I learned it myself with the teacher's expectations and encouragement to motivate me. I do encourage them, tell them how important these basic steps are in their daily lives. I try to give them real world examples, too - show them how to compare loan deals to make sure they're not being cheated, to calculate payoffs from shady insurance scams, to cheat the tax man by using the most profitable inventory valuation method for their respective businesses. It's not always easy to come up with meaningful examples, but I can tell from the lights in their eyes when I'm hitting home. But if they won't try. there's not a heck of a lot I can do....:( "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Indeed, instilling enthusiasm in your students is the greatest thing you can do for them IMO. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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We had Exam 3 last Thursday. Interest, Annuities, Inventory valuation methods, Mortgages and Consumer Loans, and Depreciation. Yikes!!!! The highest score was 65%! That's a 'D' - barely passing. What the heck am I doing wrong? I ask them to read the chapter before the night of the lecture (none do). I give the lecture, then send them off to do 30 -100 homework problems before the next class (few do them on time). At the beginning of the next class I have them do a 20 question quiz on the material before moving on to the next chapter's lecture. Homework scores fall in the range of 75% to 95%; quizzes run 65% to 85%. The second exam turned out so bad that I let them all take it again - 40% didn't show up for class for the retest. This one was no better, despite their excellent work on homework problems and quizzes, but there's no time left to retest again. I set a deadline tonight - all past due homework and missed quizzes will be done by next Wednesday, or they will not be graded. I've bent over backward to make this silly class as easy to pass as a falling down test, and still they're failing. I hate to be an ogre, but I'm seriously considering refusing to accept any late assignments next semester without a note from a coroner. Math, especially at this low level, is learned by repetition; it's not a fuzzy subject where opinions and feelings count. Practice, practice, practice is the only way to learn it. The students aren't taking it seriously, and their exam scores show it. We're on Chapter 16 now, and tonight one of them turned in homework from Chapter 7! I want every one of these people to pass - it's not hard, and I can tell from their homework that they know the material, but I'm required to grade on everything! That includes attendance, homework, quizzes, and exams, and the final is in three weeks. What can I do to save them from having to retake this class? Any suggestions? "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
What a wonderful way to join the community! Let me be the first to tell you to go away loser. You pick on Roger and you pick on us all. And we're formidable!!!! Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net "I killed him dead cuz he was stepping on my turf, cutting me out of my bling the same way my ho cuts cookies, officer" "Alright then, move along" - Ian Darling, The Lounge, Oct 10 2003
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What a wonderful way to join the community! Let me be the first to tell you to go away loser. You pick on Roger and you pick on us all. And we're formidable!!!! Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net "I killed him dead cuz he was stepping on my turf, cutting me out of my bling the same way my ho cuts cookies, officer" "Alright then, move along" - Ian Darling, The Lounge, Oct 10 2003
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Rob Manderson wrote: it doesn't seem as though the course is compulsory (in the same way that math is at high school). That's one thing I really don't understand. These people aren't being forced into college as they were forced into high school. They choose to go and tuition isn't exactly cheap. So why don't they actually try to learn? :doh:
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
David Stone wrote: So why don't they actually try to learn? As Lunatic said. It is a few more years that they can skip having to work, At their parents expense. Even my kids tell me that and one is not to far from being on his own! So many can not see past NOW is incredible. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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Well, only one is actually failing, and that's only because she live 6 miles away and has no way to get to class but walking - she's missed more classes than she's attended. I hate to fail them, since their homework clearly shows that they can do the math. But I also hate to send them out into the world thinking that they can skate by without applying themselves to the task at hand. That would be a violation of trust with those who may eventually hire them based on the classes they took in college. "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: I hate to fail them, since their homework clearly shows that they can do the math. Um "Someone can do the math?" "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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Don't take it personally, Roger. I don't have any first hand experience here, but I suspect your experience and reaction are pretty common. This is probably going to sound like classic oldster griping about the declining state of the country, but I've taken college courses in the last 5 years or so, and so have bit of experience, anyway, in school recently. The quality of public education in this country sucks compared to 30, 40 years ago. Colleges have become remedial education programs trying to teach the basic skills once taught in high school or below. The vast number of colleges, online universities, etc, has reduced the significance of holding a degree to nearly nothing. I worked with one MsEE 8 years or so ago who knew less about electronics theory than I did in junior high school. (But she was a cute little babe, and no-one probably ever thought of flunking her.) I'd say flunk 'em. It's probably the best thing you can do for them. Only knowing you in a superficial sense through CP, I can't say with any degree of certainty, but to me you sound like a decent guy. If you say you've made it as simple as falling down, I believe you. If you have the integrity I think you do, your conscience will bitch at you if you rubber-stamp them. Your conscience will probably bitch anyway if you flunk them, but sometimes life's not easy and you have to stand up for what you think is right. Right? :)
LunaticFringe wrote: The quality of public education in this country sucks compared to 30, 40 years ago. You may be giving to much credit to what existed. I think it is as much an attitude of society as just the schools. I taught Dynamics backin the 70's. A Junior level course and had a student who was on a wrestling scholarship. After his second test and his accumulative score was still 0. His coach called me and asked why I was so hard. I explained I had not been able to find one correct addition or multiplication on any of his work. The coach then "encouraged" me to give credit for spelling his name correctly. How did this guy pass the prerequisites for this class? PS I am glad I did not have a football or basketball player. Their coaches could influence your department chairman to add to your motivation. :sigh: "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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Roger Wright wrote: The only difference between those who succeed and those who fail is that those who succeed get up and try again when they fail. The ones who lie down and accept failure are the ones who fail, and they make a lifestyle of it. Don't go there - it's really ugly. Robert Heilbruner (one of my favorite authors) once said that it's most important for a young man to be fired. That teaches him that he can get another job, that he's not a failure, and that he needn't live in fear of a boss. Wow that's cool. Aside from the getting fired part. I haven't done that yet...and I don't particularly want to.
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
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We had Exam 3 last Thursday. Interest, Annuities, Inventory valuation methods, Mortgages and Consumer Loans, and Depreciation. Yikes!!!! The highest score was 65%! That's a 'D' - barely passing. What the heck am I doing wrong? I ask them to read the chapter before the night of the lecture (none do). I give the lecture, then send them off to do 30 -100 homework problems before the next class (few do them on time). At the beginning of the next class I have them do a 20 question quiz on the material before moving on to the next chapter's lecture. Homework scores fall in the range of 75% to 95%; quizzes run 65% to 85%. The second exam turned out so bad that I let them all take it again - 40% didn't show up for class for the retest. This one was no better, despite their excellent work on homework problems and quizzes, but there's no time left to retest again. I set a deadline tonight - all past due homework and missed quizzes will be done by next Wednesday, or they will not be graded. I've bent over backward to make this silly class as easy to pass as a falling down test, and still they're failing. I hate to be an ogre, but I'm seriously considering refusing to accept any late assignments next semester without a note from a coroner. Math, especially at this low level, is learned by repetition; it's not a fuzzy subject where opinions and feelings count. Practice, practice, practice is the only way to learn it. The students aren't taking it seriously, and their exam scores show it. We're on Chapter 16 now, and tonight one of them turned in homework from Chapter 7! I want every one of these people to pass - it's not hard, and I can tell from their homework that they know the material, but I'm required to grade on everything! That includes attendance, homework, quizzes, and exams, and the final is in three weeks. What can I do to save them from having to retake this class? Any suggestions? "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."(Assuming some undergraduate course) Is this a required course for them that is related directly to their degree? If not, I wouldn't expect too much. I remember when I was in school and going to my first Intro to DP classes. It was mainly filled with people that didn't have Computer Science as their degree and could care less about the class. In fact, I was very disliked for speaking out and taking the class seriously as I think I was the only there as a part of their mandatory track. Anyway, I'm just guessing that this is not an important class to them so they're simply not motivated, which leaves very little for you to do in order to motivate them other than getting very creative with the assignments (such as having them create their own small businesses). Cheers, Tom Archer * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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We had Exam 3 last Thursday. Interest, Annuities, Inventory valuation methods, Mortgages and Consumer Loans, and Depreciation. Yikes!!!! The highest score was 65%! That's a 'D' - barely passing. What the heck am I doing wrong? I ask them to read the chapter before the night of the lecture (none do). I give the lecture, then send them off to do 30 -100 homework problems before the next class (few do them on time). At the beginning of the next class I have them do a 20 question quiz on the material before moving on to the next chapter's lecture. Homework scores fall in the range of 75% to 95%; quizzes run 65% to 85%. The second exam turned out so bad that I let them all take it again - 40% didn't show up for class for the retest. This one was no better, despite their excellent work on homework problems and quizzes, but there's no time left to retest again. I set a deadline tonight - all past due homework and missed quizzes will be done by next Wednesday, or they will not be graded. I've bent over backward to make this silly class as easy to pass as a falling down test, and still they're failing. I hate to be an ogre, but I'm seriously considering refusing to accept any late assignments next semester without a note from a coroner. Math, especially at this low level, is learned by repetition; it's not a fuzzy subject where opinions and feelings count. Practice, practice, practice is the only way to learn it. The students aren't taking it seriously, and their exam scores show it. We're on Chapter 16 now, and tonight one of them turned in homework from Chapter 7! I want every one of these people to pass - it's not hard, and I can tell from their homework that they know the material, but I'm required to grade on everything! That includes attendance, homework, quizzes, and exams, and the final is in three weeks. What can I do to save them from having to retake this class? Any suggestions? "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Student Here.... Ok... Not much you can do.. unless your lecturering/teching in Ireland.. then off drink to the highest results in the class.... You'd be amazed how that can motivate people to study. I just have one observation (and I'm basing this on some premises that may, or may not be true). Your one Subject.... Am I right in Presuming they have maybe 6/7 subjects in total in a given semester/year the same as over here??? And that they have between 25 and 30 hours of Lecturers/Tutorials/Practicals a week in college? And they have between 4 and 5 of your lecturers a week with you? Well... I'm presuming that both of these are true for my observation... My observation is this: You're giving way too much work to do out of college hours.... 30 - 100 question 4 times a week... for just your subject!!! Man... relax.. no student will enjoy a subject if they have work pilled on them.. and if they don't enjoy it then they won't do well in it... And it doesn't amtter if the material is hard or not... I personally prefer harder things because they are more of a challenge and therefore keep me interested. Simple things are ok to a point but boring after a while. Anyway.. My presumptions could be completely wrong... if they are.. I'm sorry... If not.. then you should be grovelling for forgivness from your students. Regards, Brian Dela :-) http://www.briandela.com IE 6 required.
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MFC.NET Application Wizard Mix .NET and MFC easily. -
(Assuming some undergraduate course) Is this a required course for them that is related directly to their degree? If not, I wouldn't expect too much. I remember when I was in school and going to my first Intro to DP classes. It was mainly filled with people that didn't have Computer Science as their degree and could care less about the class. In fact, I was very disliked for speaking out and taking the class seriously as I think I was the only there as a part of their mandatory track. Anyway, I'm just guessing that this is not an important class to them so they're simply not motivated, which leaves very little for you to do in order to motivate them other than getting very creative with the assignments (such as having them create their own small businesses). Cheers, Tom Archer * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
Tom Archer wrote: related directly to their degree? It's one of those required courses that isn't related to any degree, except perhaps a business major, which none of them are. I well remember having to take classes that were utterly irrelevant to my interests when I was in college. I passed them, but sometimes just barely.:-O "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
We had Exam 3 last Thursday. Interest, Annuities, Inventory valuation methods, Mortgages and Consumer Loans, and Depreciation. Yikes!!!! The highest score was 65%! That's a 'D' - barely passing. What the heck am I doing wrong? I ask them to read the chapter before the night of the lecture (none do). I give the lecture, then send them off to do 30 -100 homework problems before the next class (few do them on time). At the beginning of the next class I have them do a 20 question quiz on the material before moving on to the next chapter's lecture. Homework scores fall in the range of 75% to 95%; quizzes run 65% to 85%. The second exam turned out so bad that I let them all take it again - 40% didn't show up for class for the retest. This one was no better, despite their excellent work on homework problems and quizzes, but there's no time left to retest again. I set a deadline tonight - all past due homework and missed quizzes will be done by next Wednesday, or they will not be graded. I've bent over backward to make this silly class as easy to pass as a falling down test, and still they're failing. I hate to be an ogre, but I'm seriously considering refusing to accept any late assignments next semester without a note from a coroner. Math, especially at this low level, is learned by repetition; it's not a fuzzy subject where opinions and feelings count. Practice, practice, practice is the only way to learn it. The students aren't taking it seriously, and their exam scores show it. We're on Chapter 16 now, and tonight one of them turned in homework from Chapter 7! I want every one of these people to pass - it's not hard, and I can tell from their homework that they know the material, but I'm required to grade on everything! That includes attendance, homework, quizzes, and exams, and the final is in three weeks. What can I do to save them from having to retake this class? Any suggestions? "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."I'm a college student myself and I have to say that there is really not too much that can be done. You seem to be doing all you can to get these people to pass and it seems as if they just don't care. (Or at least most of them don't.) I think that it's sad that a lot of students just don't care about what they are doing while they're in college, like it's a giant party or something. I find that a lot of people at my school are just here for a good time. I, myself, am very greatful to be going to college. I'm the pretty much the first one in my family that has gone on to college. (Most joined the military.) I don't think that students should take going to college lightly considering most people's parents are shelling out a lot of money. I know my parents are shelling out about $20,000 (taken out in loans) and that I feel that I owe it to them to do my best. There is one class that I study for continously and read all that I'm told to read, but I still do poorly on tests. In this case though the professor doesn't do much to help or teach what he wants to get across. There isn't a lot of help offered, or extra credit, or anything like that. So I think that you're students are lucky to have a teacher like you. Now I'm not saying that I came to college to work work work....I still have a good time while I'm here. But the difference is I work/study hard so that my time here isn't a waste. There's pleanty of time to go out and have fun and still study. There's not much that can be done to save them from retaking the class. They have to want to learn and care enough to get help if they're struggling.
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Student Here.... Ok... Not much you can do.. unless your lecturering/teching in Ireland.. then off drink to the highest results in the class.... You'd be amazed how that can motivate people to study. I just have one observation (and I'm basing this on some premises that may, or may not be true). Your one Subject.... Am I right in Presuming they have maybe 6/7 subjects in total in a given semester/year the same as over here??? And that they have between 25 and 30 hours of Lecturers/Tutorials/Practicals a week in college? And they have between 4 and 5 of your lecturers a week with you? Well... I'm presuming that both of these are true for my observation... My observation is this: You're giving way too much work to do out of college hours.... 30 - 100 question 4 times a week... for just your subject!!! Man... relax.. no student will enjoy a subject if they have work pilled on them.. and if they don't enjoy it then they won't do well in it... And it doesn't amtter if the material is hard or not... I personally prefer harder things because they are more of a challenge and therefore keep me interested. Simple things are ok to a point but boring after a while. Anyway.. My presumptions could be completely wrong... if they are.. I'm sorry... If not.. then you should be grovelling for forgivness from your students. Regards, Brian Dela :-) http://www.briandela.com IE 6 required.
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MFC.NET Application Wizard Mix .NET and MFC easily.Good points, wrong assumptions. My students are taking, at most, three classes, and my class meets only twice a week, not 4 times. Typical homework questions are "What is the decimal equivalent of 35%?" and "A loan for $20,000 at 9% interest is scheduled to be paid in 24 months. How much of the first month's payment is interest?" The rule of thumb used in US colleges is that homework time should be three times the classroom hours. Since this is a three hour class, that should work out to 9 hours of homework a week - far too much for a non-major class, in my opinion. These assignments, when they get around to doing them, are taking a total of about three hours a week. I spend more time than that grading the stuff, since I take the time to analyze what they've done, decrypt their rotten handwriting, and writing detailed explanations for each problem missed. A couple of them do feel buried by homework; they're the ones who haven't done any all semester and are trying to catch up. "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
I'm a college student myself and I have to say that there is really not too much that can be done. You seem to be doing all you can to get these people to pass and it seems as if they just don't care. (Or at least most of them don't.) I think that it's sad that a lot of students just don't care about what they are doing while they're in college, like it's a giant party or something. I find that a lot of people at my school are just here for a good time. I, myself, am very greatful to be going to college. I'm the pretty much the first one in my family that has gone on to college. (Most joined the military.) I don't think that students should take going to college lightly considering most people's parents are shelling out a lot of money. I know my parents are shelling out about $20,000 (taken out in loans) and that I feel that I owe it to them to do my best. There is one class that I study for continously and read all that I'm told to read, but I still do poorly on tests. In this case though the professor doesn't do much to help or teach what he wants to get across. There isn't a lot of help offered, or extra credit, or anything like that. So I think that you're students are lucky to have a teacher like you. Now I'm not saying that I came to college to work work work....I still have a good time while I'm here. But the difference is I work/study hard so that my time here isn't a waste. There's pleanty of time to go out and have fun and still study. There's not much that can be done to save them from retaking the class. They have to want to learn and care enough to get help if they're struggling.
Erin wrote: the first one in my family that has gone on to college Bravo! What a great new family tradition to start. I'll bet the whole family is very proud of you!:-D Erin wrote: In this case though the professor doesn't do much to help or teach That's a shame; for the money you're paying the professor should be doing everything possible to help his students master the subject. Mine all have my phone number and email address, and are welcome to call or write with any questions. They also have access at the school to tutoring services, which only one has used. Erin wrote: There's pleanty of time to go out and have fun and still study. That was my experience, too. It meant some really long days with far too little sleep, but I survived 18 - 22 units of engineering classes, a full time job, lots of homework, and still managed to do my fair share of partying. It can be done if one really wants that degree. Good luck to you!:-D "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."