What do you want in the next version of VS/C#
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John Cardinal wrote: Any of 100 other things woud be more important to me, how about the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region? Go to the bottom of the region? Are you there? Press Ctrl-M; Press it again. You have two other wishes. :-D Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Did some penguins spam the survey to prevent C# from evolving the way we want it ? :suss: "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
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Ok. Maybe I'm getting a little paranoid. I'll blame my manager who keeps sneaking up on me to check if I'm working. The guy has made me a nervous wreck :) "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
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Why exactly? On an regular basis or..? I just could never see the appeal, I don't want to mess with a running program and hope that the change I made partway through doesn't just cause other bugs that I didn't anticipate becuase I'm changing some code that some other code is dependant on. I think it's a dangerous feature. Stop the debug, change the code the recompile and re-run it is much cleaner and clearer. And all that aside, even if it's useful, would it really be your number 1 feature you would want in C#?
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceI too use this function all of the time. My company's products weigh in at about 30Mb compiled [simulations of aircraft hardware and systems] and fixing a one line bug that took me 15 minutes to get to is fine, just as long as I don't have to quit, edit, recompile, rerun... if it works after a "patch" then I'm happy. We still test things formally, but in VC6 it rarely lets me down!! Regards, Ray
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Number 1 was support for edit and continue? Are those people high on drugs or something? Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? Any of 100 other things woud be more important to me, how about the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region? Just for starters. What a wierd survey, I suspect that people got together and jammed the ballot box so to speak because I can't imagine that being a top priority for the averge c# programmer.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceJohn Cardinal wrote: Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? Me. Not that I'd make it a top priority, or anything. I'd probably talk about language features, rather than IDE features. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Why exactly? On an regular basis or..? Because I use it a lot. :) It's a time saver for me. And, I don't see how it's more dangerous to change a value via edit and continue than changing a value and recompiling. And all that aside, even if it's useful, would it really be your number 1 feature you would want in C#? I dunno. I'm a newbie to C# (reading Tom Archer's book), so there may be something not apparent to me yet that I'll want down the road. However, I've been using C/C++ and VB for a long time and I've grown to like edit and continue. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I dunno. I'm a newbie to C# (reading Tom Archer's book), so there may be something not apparent to me yet that I'll want down the road. Bloody hell! Consider yourself smacked! Why do you respond to something like this when you don't even work in it? :wtf:
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose Bierce -
John Cardinal wrote: Try it, it only collapses the method you are currently in, not the whole region itself. I'm on the line containing the #endregion, which, by definition, is where the region ends: pressing Ctrl-M two times, the whole region is collapsed. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Wow. Aspects was at the bottom of the list. :sigh: Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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I too use this function all of the time. My company's products weigh in at about 30Mb compiled [simulations of aircraft hardware and systems] and fixing a one line bug that took me 15 minutes to get to is fine, just as long as I don't have to quit, edit, recompile, rerun... if it works after a "patch" then I'm happy. We still test things formally, but in VC6 it rarely lets me down!! Regards, Ray
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: I dunno. I'm a newbie to C# (reading Tom Archer's book), so there may be something not apparent to me yet that I'll want down the road. Bloody hell! Consider yourself smacked! Why do you respond to something like this when you don't even work in it? :wtf:
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceSimple, I work in other enviroments. Just because I'm newbie to C# does not mean I'm a newbie to programming. And, programming is programming is programming. So, consider yourself smacked back. ;P Jeremy Falcon
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Um...you do realize were talking about c# here right? And were talking about the number one most requested feature addition right? ;P
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceWhy does the language even matter? We're talking about the effectiveness of a debugger here. Jeremy Falcon
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Number 1 was support for edit and continue? Are those people high on drugs or something? Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? Any of 100 other things woud be more important to me, how about the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region? Just for starters. What a wierd survey, I suspect that people got together and jammed the ballot box so to speak because I can't imagine that being a top priority for the averge c# programmer.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceJohn Cardinal wrote: the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region CTRL-M CTRL-M (yeah, twice...) [MODIFIED: Yeah, ok... I see Daniel Turini allready pointed that one out...]
Have a look at my latest article about Object Prevalence with Bamboo Prevalence.
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Marc Clifton wrote: Wow. Aspects was at the bottom of the list. Besides logging and asserting, what useful can you do with AOP? BTW, you can do most of these things dynamically by implementing a Decorator pattern. Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: Besides logging and asserting, what useful can you do with AOP? BTW, you can do most of these things dynamically by implementing a Decorator pattern. It's an interesting concept, and I wish I could play with it some more in C#, rather than AspectJ. There is an aspect implementation in C# that uses proxy remoting, which I've dabbled in. I'm not sold on the idea, but I think it has uses beyond logging and asserting. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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Why does the language even matter? We're talking about the effectiveness of a debugger here. Jeremy Falcon
Exactly. I've gone from daily writing hundreds to thousands of lines of code in c++ to about a year now of doing the same thing in C#. The amount of debugging I do has dropped down to easly less than 1% of what it used to be. And no it's not because I sucked as a c++ programmer! ;P It's just astounding that out of all the thousands of things that every day c# programmers are genuinely asking for that edit and continue would top the list. That's all I'm saying here.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose Bierce -
Simple, I work in other enviroments. Just because I'm newbie to C# does not mean I'm a newbie to programming. And, programming is programming is programming. So, consider yourself smacked back. ;P Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: So, consider yourself smacked back. Lot's of people here want to smack me today, get in line! :-D
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceWhere do I buy the ticket? ;) Jeremy Falcon
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Hmmm...well I work with business objects and they are broken down into 5 or 6 defined regions where similar code is grouped, I constantly (currently: all day hundreds of times a day) need to open up those regions to make modifications, when I'm at the bottom of a region that is 500+ lines of code long, it would be nice to simply collapse that region from the bottom, but I have to scroll up and find the top of it then collapse it so I can find the other regions I need to work on.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceOr you could learn the chords for collapsing regions:
Edit.HideSelection Ctrl+M, Ctrl+H
Edit.ToggleOutliningExpansion Ctrl+M, Ctrl+M
Edit.ToggleAllOutlining Ctrl+M, Ctrl+L
Edit.StopOutlining Ctrl+M, Ctrl+P
Edit.StopHidingCurrent Ctrl+M, Ctrl+U
Edit.CollapsetoDefinitions Ctrl+M, Ctrl+OCtrl M M is the thing that you want. It'll collapse any region (or method/property block) that you're currently in. Really quite useful. :)
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
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Or you could learn the chords for collapsing regions:
Edit.HideSelection Ctrl+M, Ctrl+H
Edit.ToggleOutliningExpansion Ctrl+M, Ctrl+M
Edit.ToggleAllOutlining Ctrl+M, Ctrl+L
Edit.StopOutlining Ctrl+M, Ctrl+P
Edit.StopHidingCurrent Ctrl+M, Ctrl+U
Edit.CollapsetoDefinitions Ctrl+M, Ctrl+OCtrl M M is the thing that you want. It'll collapse any region (or method/property block) that you're currently in. Really quite useful. :)
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
Keyboard commands? That's so 20th century!;) Seriously though, if I can't use my mouse to do it, chances are it's not going to happen. (I remember the pre-mouse days of computers very well, in fact I wrote a lot of code back then, I'd just as soon have a little square box at the bottom of a region I can click on to collapse it.) Control m-control m still means I have to navigate to the bottom of the region to use it, if they can come up with a keyboard shortcut that will just collapse the current region only I would be very impressed and would definitely consider using it.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose Bierce -
Number 1 was support for edit and continue? Are those people high on drugs or something? Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? Any of 100 other things woud be more important to me, how about the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region? Just for starters. What a wierd survey, I suspect that people got together and jammed the ballot box so to speak because I can't imagine that being a top priority for the averge c# programmer.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceJohn: "Are those people high on drugs or something? Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously?" If you read many of the previous posts made by myself or jaybas_ms, you'll see that there is indeed a large number of people who want this feature. Coming from a java background, I've used this myself. And, of course, in language environments like Smalltalk/OCaml you just get this naturally. For many, the ability to have edit and continue is a great boon to a common problem that occurs in the development cycle, namely that it's a cycle and it can take a long time to return back to a certain point. Anything you can do to reduce that time can be a benefit. Also, there are many (as I have learned) people who use E&C as a means to explore the system. How does a certain function respond to certain inputs? I dunno, I'll just fire up and app and try it out on all the inputs I want. It's very handy for prototyping out behavior and then implementing it once all the niggling questions have been answered. -- Cyrus (http://blogs.msdn.com/cyrusn)
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Number 1 was support for edit and continue? Are those people high on drugs or something? Who the hell ever used that when it was available previously? Any of 100 other things woud be more important to me, how about the ability to collapse a defined region in the editor from the bottom of that region as well as the current top of the region? Just for starters. What a wierd survey, I suspect that people got together and jammed the ballot box so to speak because I can't imagine that being a top priority for the averge c# programmer.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose BierceJohn: "What a wierd survey, I suspect that people got together and jammed the ballot box so to speak because I can't imagine that being a top priority for the averge c# programmer. " There was no ballot stuffing. I got individual responses from real people. Almost all of whom justified why these were the features they wanted. If you read the original post on this you will see that I asked for that as part of the submission. That way I wouldn't just get votes from people saying "i want that because it's nifty" -- Cyrus (http://blogs.msdn.com/cyrusn)