Muslims
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Here is an explanation from www.whyislam.org: ------------------------------------------------ Q. Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil? A. The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Before we analyze the reasoning behind the religiously mandated ‘hijab’, let us first study the status of women in societies before the advent of Islam 1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity: 1. Babylonian Civilization: The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death. 2. Greek Civilization: Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society. 3. Roman Civilization: When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans. 4. Egyptian Civilization: The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil. 5. Pre-Islamic Arabia: Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive. 2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status. Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status. Hijab for men People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qu
Thank you Mustafa! Even if I am a follower of Christ, I always appreciate when someone use his time to bring the truth. Thanks for the Links! - God bless the World
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Here is an explanation from www.whyislam.org: ------------------------------------------------ Q. Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil? A. The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Before we analyze the reasoning behind the religiously mandated ‘hijab’, let us first study the status of women in societies before the advent of Islam 1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity: 1. Babylonian Civilization: The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death. 2. Greek Civilization: Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society. 3. Roman Civilization: When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans. 4. Egyptian Civilization: The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil. 5. Pre-Islamic Arabia: Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive. 2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status. Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status. Hijab for men People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qu
Thanks for posting that. It made for very interesting reading. Whilst its reasons are food for thought. It overlooks the most basic of human rights, the right to choose. Michael :-)
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So to prevent men having bad thoughts about women, women are punished by having to wear a bag on their heads. Seems a little unfair. Perhaps Muslim men should wear the bag on their head so that they can't see those thought provoking women.
Dan Bennett wrote: So to prevent men having bad thoughts about women, women are punished by having to wear a bag on their heads. Actually, most Muslim women aren't forced to wear Hijab. Check this news article on interviews with some of them. Five women tell why they choose to wear them -- or not // Fazlul
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Here is an explanation from www.whyislam.org: ------------------------------------------------ Q. Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil? A. The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Before we analyze the reasoning behind the religiously mandated ‘hijab’, let us first study the status of women in societies before the advent of Islam 1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity: 1. Babylonian Civilization: The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death. 2. Greek Civilization: Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society. 3. Roman Civilization: When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans. 4. Egyptian Civilization: The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil. 5. Pre-Islamic Arabia: Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive. 2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status. Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status. Hijab for men People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qu
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Here is an explanation from www.whyislam.org: ------------------------------------------------ Q. Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil? A. The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Before we analyze the reasoning behind the religiously mandated ‘hijab’, let us first study the status of women in societies before the advent of Islam 1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity: 1. Babylonian Civilization: The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death. 2. Greek Civilization: Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society. 3. Roman Civilization: When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans. 4. Egyptian Civilization: The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil. 5. Pre-Islamic Arabia: Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive. 2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status. Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status. Hijab for men People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qu
I don't intend to discuss religion, because I think it's pointless, but I strongly disagree with the main argument for the hijab: to protect women from lustful men. Why instead of covering women from head to toe to hide their beauty, why not make rules to make men respect women as equals without making women feel like a helpless sheep among hungry wolves? :confused: Foot-and-Mouth disease is believed to be the first virus unable to spread through Microsoft Outlook
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Why do Muslim women have to wear the bag over their head? Is it so another man does gaze upon another man's woman? The women can't blow kisses and make goo-goo eyes? The face is the most erotic zone amongst Muslims? Just confused. Michael Martin Australia mmartin@netspace.net.au "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
Because that's the only way they can tell the women from the men. Without the bag on their head, everyone would have a visible beard. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Why in some islamic countries women are not allowed to work? Is it also dictated in Qur'an? If yes, what's the reasoning behind that? Just curious.
No, it is not dictated in Qur'an. It is a matter of choice. I admit that in some countries, women are not allowed to work; but this does not mean that this is because of the Islam. In fact, this is because of misunderstanding of Islam. Kind regards Mustafa Demirhan http://www.macroangel.com Sonork ID 100.9935:zoltrix
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So to prevent men having bad thoughts about women, women are punished by having to wear a bag on their heads. Seems a little unfair. Perhaps Muslim men should wear the bag on their head so that they can't see those thought provoking women.
Dan, you obviously didn't take the time to read Mustafa's reply, or if you did, you are so closed minded that you absorbed none of it. That was not what he said at all. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
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Because that's the only way they can tell the women from the men. Without the bag on their head, everyone would have a visible beard. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Cruel, very cruel, but undeniably funny! :) ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
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Because that's the only way they can tell the women from the men. Without the bag on their head, everyone would have a visible beard. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Very funny. My drink nearly went all over my keyboard. Funniest thing I've read for a while. Michael :-)
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I don't intend to discuss religion, because I think it's pointless, but I strongly disagree with the main argument for the hijab: to protect women from lustful men. Why instead of covering women from head to toe to hide their beauty, why not make rules to make men respect women as equals without making women feel like a helpless sheep among hungry wolves? :confused: Foot-and-Mouth disease is believed to be the first virus unable to spread through Microsoft Outlook
Eddie Velasquez wrote: Why instead of covering women from head to toe to hide their beauty, why not make rules to make men respect women as equals without making women feel like a helpless sheep among hungry wolves? Because all the established religions were written by men. Even in today's world - even in so called equal civilisations - men write the rules for a man-centric world. Besides which, women raping men is nowhere near as commonplace as the other way round. And Islam as a religion - just as Christianity does - teaches the same basic "treat all people equally as they are under the eyes of god". It is man who chooses to ignore this. And finally, as I beleive it was stated, Islam as a religion gives it's followers - man or woman - choice. It is the missinterpretation of Islam (mostly by those who do not understand it though choice or ignorance) that means in some cases women are forced to cover themselves. It is the same with Christianity (especially in the States) where you'll find hundreds of spin off Christian groups who take the simplest rules of their religion and twist them into new meaning. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
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Eddie Velasquez wrote: Why instead of covering women from head to toe to hide their beauty, why not make rules to make men respect women as equals without making women feel like a helpless sheep among hungry wolves? Because all the established religions were written by men. Even in today's world - even in so called equal civilisations - men write the rules for a man-centric world. Besides which, women raping men is nowhere near as commonplace as the other way round. And Islam as a religion - just as Christianity does - teaches the same basic "treat all people equally as they are under the eyes of god". It is man who chooses to ignore this. And finally, as I beleive it was stated, Islam as a religion gives it's followers - man or woman - choice. It is the missinterpretation of Islam (mostly by those who do not understand it though choice or ignorance) that means in some cases women are forced to cover themselves. It is the same with Christianity (especially in the States) where you'll find hundreds of spin off Christian groups who take the simplest rules of their religion and twist them into new meaning. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
I understand and agree with all your points David, I was just disagreeing with the arguments for the hijad. The reasons are obvious (at least for me) and commonplace, Islam like any other religion can be (and has been) missinterpreted and used for the convinience of those who have the power. Foot-and-Mouth disease is believed to be the first virus unable to spread through Microsoft Outlook
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Because that's the only way they can tell the women from the men. Without the bag on their head, everyone would have a visible beard. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
LOLROTF! :laugh: Foot-and-Mouth disease is believed to be the first virus unable to spread through Microsoft Outlook
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Why do Muslim women have to wear the bag over their head? Is it so another man does gaze upon another man's woman? The women can't blow kisses and make goo-goo eyes? The face is the most erotic zone amongst Muslims? Just confused. Michael Martin Australia mmartin@netspace.net.au "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
Michael Martin wrote: Why do Muslim women have to wear the bag over their head? A confession from a Canadian girl (as appeared in The Globe and Mail). My Body is My Own Business // Fazlul
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Dan, you obviously didn't take the time to read Mustafa's reply, or if you did, you are so closed minded that you absorbed none of it. That was not what he said at all. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
Wrong on both counts. I read it, I absorbed it and I don't agree with it. Sorry. What he wrote was the theory and it all sounds nice. The reality is that in many of the more extreme Islamic coutries, women have fewer rights than men. This is often justified on religeous grounds when it seems to me to be little more than sexism. Personally I thought there was a lot of dodgy reasoning in the reply, for example: 6. Example of twin sisters This is saying that women should dress a certain way to avoid being molested. As usual women are required do something so that men are not tempted to molest them. I think men should be educated not to molest women.
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Here is an explanation from www.whyislam.org: ------------------------------------------------ Q. Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil? A. The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Before we analyze the reasoning behind the religiously mandated ‘hijab’, let us first study the status of women in societies before the advent of Islam 1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity: 1. Babylonian Civilization: The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death. 2. Greek Civilization: Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society. 3. Roman Civilization: When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans. 4. Egyptian Civilization: The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil. 5. Pre-Islamic Arabia: Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive. 2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status. Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status. Hijab for men People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qu
Mustafa Demirhan wrote: 9. USA has one of the highest rates of rape United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years. Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease? Using this logic can we also assume that if the Islamic hijab is followed in America that the rate of Americans hijacking passenger jets and crashing them into buildings killing 1000's of innocents will increase as well?? Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "It might look like I'm doing nothing, but at the cellular level I'm really quite busy."
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No, it is not dictated in Qur'an. It is a matter of choice. I admit that in some countries, women are not allowed to work; but this does not mean that this is because of the Islam. In fact, this is because of misunderstanding of Islam. Kind regards Mustafa Demirhan http://www.macroangel.com Sonork ID 100.9935:zoltrix
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So to prevent men having bad thoughts about women, women are punished by having to wear a bag on their heads. Seems a little unfair. Perhaps Muslim men should wear the bag on their head so that they can't see those thought provoking women.
Religion is not to be fair. Religion is not to be unfair. Religion is about faith, not logic. Looking for logic ? Keep doing science. If you believe that God (or whatever) told you to do this or that, you'll do. Without questioning. Sure, if you understand God's reasons is easier to comply, but you have to obey. I do not believe in any kind of religion, but I do understand and respect, even what looks ilogic and stupid to me, again, because religion isn't about logic. Crivo Automated Credit Assessment
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Wrong on both counts. I read it, I absorbed it and I don't agree with it. Sorry. What he wrote was the theory and it all sounds nice. The reality is that in many of the more extreme Islamic coutries, women have fewer rights than men. This is often justified on religeous grounds when it seems to me to be little more than sexism. Personally I thought there was a lot of dodgy reasoning in the reply, for example: 6. Example of twin sisters This is saying that women should dress a certain way to avoid being molested. As usual women are required do something so that men are not tempted to molest them. I think men should be educated not to molest women.
Dan Bennett wrote: I read it, I absorbed it and I don't agree with it. Sorry. But from what you are saying, you do, you just worded it wrong. At least it seems you do. Dan Bennett wrote: The reality is that in many of the more extreme Islamic coutries, women have fewer rights than men. This is often justified on religeous grounds when it seems to me to be little more than sexism. One of the points made was that Islam does not impose these rules, but people use Islam to justify themselves imposing them. (I hope that reads right). I could use Islam to justify anything I wanted, in fact, I could use Sikhism to justify murdering my neighbour, if I just twisted round a few of their base principles. You tried to say that Islam itself imposed the rules you disagreed with (by stating "Muslims" which implies anybody with a faith inline with Islam, rather than "extreme Muslims" or even "some Muslims"), and that is not true, and that is what my initial reply was addressing. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
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Mustafa Demirhan wrote: 9. USA has one of the highest rates of rape United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years. Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease? Using this logic can we also assume that if the Islamic hijab is followed in America that the rate of Americans hijacking passenger jets and crashing them into buildings killing 1000's of innocents will increase as well?? Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "It might look like I'm doing nothing, but at the cellular level I'm really quite busy."
Mike Mullikin wrote: Using this logic can we also assume that if the Islamic hijab is followed in America that the rate of Americans hijacking passenger jets and crashing them into buildings killing 1000's of innocents will increase as well?? Using this logic then we can also assume that if an extreme Islamic group's hijab is followed in America, then the rate of Americans hijacking passenger jets and crashing them into buildings killing 1000's of innocents will increase as well. Just as with any religion on earth in any country on earth. In fact, religion isn't even needed. The only reason this hasn't happened on this scale before, was because it was not possible before, though the same style of events has occured thoughout history. Remember that Tim McVeigh was in a way following his own little moral war (for surprising similar reasons come to think if it), and look what he did. ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg