General discontent on Codeproject?
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From http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=750035#xx750035xx: OK boys and girls, gather round... A long, long time ago, back when the world was newer and the grass was greener and internet stocks were on speed, a young man named Zafir Anjum started a website to host chapters of a book he was writing. The site soon became known as the MFC Programmer's Sourcebook and it was Good. Soon, a few caring, sharing, and, in my case, easily distractable people started sending Zafir whitepapers to complement the chapters he had posted, and the site grew. As it grew, more people used his site, and more people contributed. One day it all grew so big that Zafir decided to change the name to CodeGuru and bring a few of us on board properly in order to spread the load and make the site Better. Life was good. The birds chirped each morning, developers read the site, participated in the forums, and sent angry email about broken links. I was running the day-to-day site business while Zafir fed the gnomes running the backend system. And the site grew. Soon Tom Archer came on board to help take some more of the load. There were also about 20 volunteers in varying degrees of busyness handling article submissions. Developers developed, authors submitted, advertisers advertised and links were broken. Then in July 1999 the EarthWeb machinery appeared and swallowed the site. Zafir went back home to India for some rest while the rest of us milled around, gnashing our teeth and wringing our hands now that we had been locked out of the site and could no longer post submissions or fix broken links. There was much wailing. After 3 months David Cunningham and I decided that there had been too much wailing and too much gnashing and so hunkered down and, pebble by pebble, started building a new site. It would be what we always dreamed could be done. It would be fun. It would be comprehensive. It would be running on flaky Windows servers instead of robust Linux servers. And it would be Orange. That day, November 15, 1999, CodeTools was born. Then we discovered CodeTools was trademarked so 2 weeks later CodeProject was born. Or reborn. Or renamed. Or whatever.
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being
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Marc Clifton wrote: Daniel Turini wrote: 1,242,226 members This is a really misleading number, don't you think? I mean, you have to become a member so that you can download an article's code. But it certainly is no indication of ACTIVE members, is it? Heaven forbid that the "online" number at the top of the forum would be this large! I can't believe that anyone would believe this number as a true reflection of "membership". Hell, I have 2 or 3 ids and my wife has 1. This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
Tom Archer wrote: This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. Yeah, and it did not grow really fast until you had to sign in in order to download ;) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
My Photos[^] New developersite: RealDevs.Net -
From http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=750035#xx750035xx: OK boys and girls, gather round... A long, long time ago, back when the world was newer and the grass was greener and internet stocks were on speed, a young man named Zafir Anjum started a website to host chapters of a book he was writing. The site soon became known as the MFC Programmer's Sourcebook and it was Good. Soon, a few caring, sharing, and, in my case, easily distractable people started sending Zafir whitepapers to complement the chapters he had posted, and the site grew. As it grew, more people used his site, and more people contributed. One day it all grew so big that Zafir decided to change the name to CodeGuru and bring a few of us on board properly in order to spread the load and make the site Better. Life was good. The birds chirped each morning, developers read the site, participated in the forums, and sent angry email about broken links. I was running the day-to-day site business while Zafir fed the gnomes running the backend system. And the site grew. Soon Tom Archer came on board to help take some more of the load. There were also about 20 volunteers in varying degrees of busyness handling article submissions. Developers developed, authors submitted, advertisers advertised and links were broken. Then in July 1999 the EarthWeb machinery appeared and swallowed the site. Zafir went back home to India for some rest while the rest of us milled around, gnashing our teeth and wringing our hands now that we had been locked out of the site and could no longer post submissions or fix broken links. There was much wailing. After 3 months David Cunningham and I decided that there had been too much wailing and too much gnashing and so hunkered down and, pebble by pebble, started building a new site. It would be what we always dreamed could be done. It would be fun. It would be comprehensive. It would be running on flaky Windows servers instead of robust Linux servers. And it would be Orange. That day, November 15, 1999, CodeTools was born. Then we discovered CodeTools was trademarked so 2 weeks later CodeProject was born. Or reborn. Or renamed. Or whatever.
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being
>It would be running on flaky Windows servers instead of robust Linux servers. And it would be Orange. :laugh: :laugh: Ah, yes, no wonder I have lurked around this place for so long. It is orange, it runs on Windows and yet is still grand. It will be good when Chris gets back from his convalescence and the rumour mill and it's little mongers can wither in the face of facts and a good heart. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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Bee Master wrote: Is it Xamlon? X| Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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Tom Archer wrote: This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. Yeah, and it did not grow really fast until you had to sign in in order to download ;) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
My Photos[^] New developersite: RealDevs.NetI see RD.NET does not require signing in to be able to download code. Do you foresee that changing as the site gets more popular or do you hope you can combat leechers with other methods? I am sure Chris fought long and hard before requiring you to sign up to download on CP and he and many other websites in similar situations would love a better solution. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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I see RD.NET does not require signing in to be able to download code. Do you foresee that changing as the site gets more popular or do you hope you can combat leechers with other methods? I am sure Chris fought long and hard before requiring you to sign up to download on CP and he and many other websites in similar situations would love a better solution. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: Do you foresee that changing as the site gets more popular or do you hope you can combat leechers with other methods? I don't see it change... (At least I hope we can avoid it) One way to combat it is to write a http handler for zip-files, and set some limits on how much you can download and how fast. There are other ways to handle it too. I won't implement any of those before its a real problem though... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
My Photos[^] New developersite: RealDevs.Net -
Daniel Turini wrote: have you thought about buying Google Ads on CP pointing to RealDevs? Yes, but have you ever figured out what keywords to use to for a code developer site? Nothing that I've found really seems to target well enough. BTW, I have a google ad running for MyXaml. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: Yes, but have you ever figured out what keywords to use to for a code developer site? Nothing that I've found really seems to target well enough. Just buy the words for the top articles. It's easy to figure out which words are related to each article. :) Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I see RD.NET does not require signing in to be able to download code. Do you foresee that changing as the site gets more popular or do you hope you can combat leechers with other methods? I am sure Chris fought long and hard before requiring you to sign up to download on CP and he and many other websites in similar situations would love a better solution. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: I see RD.NET does not require signing in to be able to download code. Do you foresee that changing as the site gets more popular or do you hope you can combat leechers with other methods? Really, do you believe that this stops leechers? :omg: Yes, even I am blogging now!
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Is there some general discontent on/about Codeproject? I'm not a regular at the Lounge, so maybe I've missed a lot. Prize winners? Slow site? Chris not respecting people? Whats the problem, and can we solve it by a thorough discussion? Got a bit puzzled reading the "Not complaining--Just curious" thread. http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?forumid=1159&exp=0&fr=26&select=877872#xx877872xx Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
I have no discontent over CodeProject. It is a great site and I fully support it. Yes, it may be getting sluggish at times, but hey, that's life. I'm sure time and money can fix these problems, but until one of us wins the lottery or more people pony-up to supporter status, we'll just have to deal with it. ~Nitron.
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Marc Clifton wrote: Daniel Turini wrote: 1,242,226 members This is a really misleading number, don't you think? I mean, you have to become a member so that you can download an article's code. But it certainly is no indication of ACTIVE members, is it? Heaven forbid that the "online" number at the top of the forum would be this large! I can't believe that anyone would believe this number as a true reflection of "membership". Hell, I have 2 or 3 ids and my wife has 1. This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
Tom Archer wrote: This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. I don't believe it helps selling advertising. The only thing it does is helping to hide the real number... Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I am generally content with CP. There are some problems but (directed at the discontent) what else are you expecting? Utopia? Perfection? Get real. It is good that CP is open enough that people can openly criticise it. I know many sites that would moderate these discussions into oblivion. However I am saddened by the reaction some people have had. They show very little appreciation or respect. I hope some people choose their words with a bit more respect in the future. And yes, of course I am biased. This is a great place. Many of us have spent a lot of our time here and all but the worst have loyalties. As someone above said, there will be good times and bad times. Try not to be a fair weather friend. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: They show very little appreciation or respect. Funny, that's how I felt, using my articles to spawn ad links. But, that's been discussed until I gave up in disgust. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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Tom Archer wrote: This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. I don't believe it helps selling advertising. The only thing it does is helping to hide the real number... Yes, even I am blogging now!
Trust me, Daniel. It sells advertising. Advertisers look at things like memberships and page hits so anything someone can do to up those numbers helps to sell the site to advertisers. I got to learn all about this first-hand at CodeGuru. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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bjoernen wrote: It seems your site is very similar to Codeproject, why would I visit yours? Let me take from here. I blogged about this in the past, but essentially for the same reason people visited Google when there was Altavista. He intends to provide high quality articles (there's no VB section and there's a "programming methods" area). The tools are modern, they both listen to suggestions and do something about it. And when unique content starts appearing on RealDevs, people will find it. bjoernen wrote: there are banner ads, we ensure that these are not "in your face". This was a proven strategy in the past. bjoernen wrote: Is it all about you two being in charge and making money or what? You say this as a bad thing: did you know that CodeProject started as a branch from CodeGuru in the same way RealDevs is starting as a branch of CodeProject? Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: You say this as a bad thing: did you know that CodeProject started as a branch from CodeGuru in the same way RealDevs is starting as a branch of CodeProject? There is nothing wrong with making money off of informative articles or ads. Since I know nothing about the history of CodeGuru and CodeProject, and I could see no obvious reason for me to move to RealDevs in favor of Codeproject, I took it I must have missed something. My initial view was that Anders and Marc wanted to make a few bucks of their own. The real issue is different, I now realize. I wish that they could have launched something that would be vastly improved though, so that the average guy could differentiate between the two. Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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bjoernen wrote: It seems your site is very similar to Codeproject, why would I visit yours? Is it all about you two being in charge and making money or what? Being in charge? Yes Making money? No. Nothing is generating revenue. We pay for our connections, servers, etc. Why? Well, since you asked: Reliable up time No ads in the articles Less ads in general Moderated article submittals Because it's something we've wanted to do for ages Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: Reliable up time Good favour over CP. Marc Clifton wrote: No ads in the articles Less ads in general As long as I can find relevant information in an easy way, I don't care about ads. Throw them at me, I dont read them anyway. Marc Clifton wrote: Moderated article submittals So the voting system and purgatory doesnt cut it for you? I find it pretty good. Marc Clifton wrote: Because it's something we've wanted to do for ages Cant argue about that one. Go for it! Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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IIRC, that's the way Chris told the story...
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
Well, not just Chris. I was around in the CG days and it was a decent site. Then grew ads took over a bit. That was still acceptible, but then sold out and the site changed. The first thing was its appearance with a big ugly wave like graphic on the side that everyone complained about but not action was taken, this made the site almost unusable but the owners did not care. You also have to take in account, that it did not have the community type structure like CP. Back then, CG was simply an article archive. When I finally noticed CP, I worried that it would go the same way, a person selling a company to captialize on all those that devoted the time and energy to build the site with their articles. I do not see Chris as ever going to sell CP since it is his life. May be foolish, but from the time spent here, I trust Chris! Now that there is a community built and one that functions so well, then I really do not see a need for a new site. It is fine though that others try and I wish them luck, but unless something major happens, this is my developer home. Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
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I am very content with CP.... I really can't understand what the problem is: Yes somtimes the response is slow, and no I don't like the google ads. However, this site has been, and continues to be the very best website I have every found - on almost every front. I think all this talk of breakaway sites is wierd at best, and in my view a total red herring for this community. It'll take a lot to convince me to move on from this site. Joel Holdsworth
Very well spoken. I like "breakaway sites", however. The more sites, the better :-)
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I am generally content with CP. There are some problems but (directed at the discontent) what else are you expecting? Utopia? Perfection? Get real. It is good that CP is open enough that people can openly criticise it. I know many sites that would moderate these discussions into oblivion. However I am saddened by the reaction some people have had. They show very little appreciation or respect. I hope some people choose their words with a bit more respect in the future. And yes, of course I am biased. This is a great place. Many of us have spent a lot of our time here and all but the worst have loyalties. As someone above said, there will be good times and bad times. Try not to be a fair weather friend. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: Try not to be a fair weather friend. Absolutely. The best type of friend to have is the one who will stand with you in bad times, to help you out no matter what, to see the best in you even when you are at your worst. So, for all the whiners and complainers: Please do something to help instead of critisising the Code Project team and be patient. Your efforts will be rewarded in the good times. And before you all get on your high-horses again let me remind you about something one of my favourite authors once wrote, "No one ever erected a statue to a critic, so they can't be held in that high a regard" (I might have to run for cover over that last remark)
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
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Is there some general discontent on/about Codeproject? I'm not a regular at the Lounge, so maybe I've missed a lot. Prize winners? Slow site? Chris not respecting people? Whats the problem, and can we solve it by a thorough discussion? Got a bit puzzled reading the "Not complaining--Just curious" thread. http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?forumid=1159&exp=0&fr=26&select=877872#xx877872xx Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
Code Project's hundreds of articles and several forums are free for the world to use. I don't forget this. Jason nirgle@gmail.com SonorkID 100.611
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Paul Watson wrote: Try not to be a fair weather friend. Absolutely. The best type of friend to have is the one who will stand with you in bad times, to help you out no matter what, to see the best in you even when you are at your worst. So, for all the whiners and complainers: Please do something to help instead of critisising the Code Project team and be patient. Your efforts will be rewarded in the good times. And before you all get on your high-horses again let me remind you about something one of my favourite authors once wrote, "No one ever erected a statue to a critic, so they can't be held in that high a regard" (I might have to run for cover over that last remark)
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: So, for all the whiners and complainers: Please do something to help instead of critisising the Code Project team and be patient. Well, we are some who have offered that, but everyone gets turned down. Tom posted something about that yeaterday. - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
My Photos[^] New developersite: RealDevs.Net -
Daniel Turini wrote: Psst! Don't talk too loud or Marc may hear it! Too late! :-D Daniel Turini wrote: 1,242,226 members This is a really misleading number, don't you think? I mean, you have to become a member so that you can download an article's code. But it certainly is no indication of ACTIVE members, is it? Heaven forbid that the "online" number at the top of the forum would be this large! Daniel Turini wrote: there maybe a few old timers Is there no respect for us oldtimers? :-D Daniel Turini wrote: We are statistically irrelevant Hmmm. Maybe that's why I don't vote either. I'm statistically irrelevant among the 100's of millions people in this country. :-D Daniel Turini wrote: The rest of us are simply people who are allowed to use CP. What Nathan and Colin said. The rest of us are simply the people who see the ads and possibly buy the products. :-D Daniel Turini wrote: Using CodeProject, as any other site, is a privilege, not a right. IMO, if you offer a service on the Internet, then people expect a certain quality of service. Therefore, it seems that it IS a right to go to this site and expect a certain QoS. If someone wants to make it a priviledge, then it should be structured in such a way that the QoS and other privileges are subscriber based. My 2c: if I were an advertiser on CP, I would be disgruntled with the frequent downtime, slowness, and growing discontent. Come to think of it, since articles are a way of advertising the author, I AM disgruntled! Sufficiently so that I wanted a different presence for some of my articles so that when I refer people to them, I can expect a certain level of QoS. Well, those are my opinions. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: Therefore, it seems that it IS a right to go to this site and expect a certain QoS. Funny story. I'm in the market for an XML editor, and I thought MyXaml might be one ( I still don't know ). As I didn't spot the link in your posts ( and I will now go to them shortly ), I went to RealDevs, expecting to have it advertised to me. I saw there was an article I wouldn't mind reading, and got this: --------------------------- Microsoft Internet Explorer --------------------------- Internet Explorer cannot open the Internet site http://www.realdevs.net/default.aspx?tabid=113&type=art&site=29&parentid=12. Operation aborted --------------------------- OK --------------------------- Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder