General discontent on Codeproject?
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Marc Clifton wrote: Daniel Turini wrote: 1,242,226 members This is a really misleading number, don't you think? I mean, you have to become a member so that you can download an article's code. But it certainly is no indication of ACTIVE members, is it? Heaven forbid that the "online" number at the top of the forum would be this large! I can't believe that anyone would believe this number as a true reflection of "membership". Hell, I have 2 or 3 ids and my wife has 1. This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
Tom Archer wrote: This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. I don't believe it helps selling advertising. The only thing it does is helping to hide the real number... Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I am generally content with CP. There are some problems but (directed at the discontent) what else are you expecting? Utopia? Perfection? Get real. It is good that CP is open enough that people can openly criticise it. I know many sites that would moderate these discussions into oblivion. However I am saddened by the reaction some people have had. They show very little appreciation or respect. I hope some people choose their words with a bit more respect in the future. And yes, of course I am biased. This is a great place. Many of us have spent a lot of our time here and all but the worst have loyalties. As someone above said, there will be good times and bad times. Try not to be a fair weather friend. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: They show very little appreciation or respect. Funny, that's how I felt, using my articles to spawn ad links. But, that's been discussed until I gave up in disgust. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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Tom Archer wrote: This is just a pumped up number to help sell advertising. I don't believe it helps selling advertising. The only thing it does is helping to hide the real number... Yes, even I am blogging now!
Trust me, Daniel. It sells advertising. Advertisers look at things like memberships and page hits so anything someone can do to up those numbers helps to sell the site to advertisers. I got to learn all about this first-hand at CodeGuru. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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bjoernen wrote: It seems your site is very similar to Codeproject, why would I visit yours? Let me take from here. I blogged about this in the past, but essentially for the same reason people visited Google when there was Altavista. He intends to provide high quality articles (there's no VB section and there's a "programming methods" area). The tools are modern, they both listen to suggestions and do something about it. And when unique content starts appearing on RealDevs, people will find it. bjoernen wrote: there are banner ads, we ensure that these are not "in your face". This was a proven strategy in the past. bjoernen wrote: Is it all about you two being in charge and making money or what? You say this as a bad thing: did you know that CodeProject started as a branch from CodeGuru in the same way RealDevs is starting as a branch of CodeProject? Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: You say this as a bad thing: did you know that CodeProject started as a branch from CodeGuru in the same way RealDevs is starting as a branch of CodeProject? There is nothing wrong with making money off of informative articles or ads. Since I know nothing about the history of CodeGuru and CodeProject, and I could see no obvious reason for me to move to RealDevs in favor of Codeproject, I took it I must have missed something. My initial view was that Anders and Marc wanted to make a few bucks of their own. The real issue is different, I now realize. I wish that they could have launched something that would be vastly improved though, so that the average guy could differentiate between the two. Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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bjoernen wrote: It seems your site is very similar to Codeproject, why would I visit yours? Is it all about you two being in charge and making money or what? Being in charge? Yes Making money? No. Nothing is generating revenue. We pay for our connections, servers, etc. Why? Well, since you asked: Reliable up time No ads in the articles Less ads in general Moderated article submittals Because it's something we've wanted to do for ages Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: Reliable up time Good favour over CP. Marc Clifton wrote: No ads in the articles Less ads in general As long as I can find relevant information in an easy way, I don't care about ads. Throw them at me, I dont read them anyway. Marc Clifton wrote: Moderated article submittals So the voting system and purgatory doesnt cut it for you? I find it pretty good. Marc Clifton wrote: Because it's something we've wanted to do for ages Cant argue about that one. Go for it! Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
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IIRC, that's the way Chris told the story...
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
Well, not just Chris. I was around in the CG days and it was a decent site. Then grew ads took over a bit. That was still acceptible, but then sold out and the site changed. The first thing was its appearance with a big ugly wave like graphic on the side that everyone complained about but not action was taken, this made the site almost unusable but the owners did not care. You also have to take in account, that it did not have the community type structure like CP. Back then, CG was simply an article archive. When I finally noticed CP, I worried that it would go the same way, a person selling a company to captialize on all those that devoted the time and energy to build the site with their articles. I do not see Chris as ever going to sell CP since it is his life. May be foolish, but from the time spent here, I trust Chris! Now that there is a community built and one that functions so well, then I really do not see a need for a new site. It is fine though that others try and I wish them luck, but unless something major happens, this is my developer home. Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
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I am very content with CP.... I really can't understand what the problem is: Yes somtimes the response is slow, and no I don't like the google ads. However, this site has been, and continues to be the very best website I have every found - on almost every front. I think all this talk of breakaway sites is wierd at best, and in my view a total red herring for this community. It'll take a lot to convince me to move on from this site. Joel Holdsworth
Very well spoken. I like "breakaway sites", however. The more sites, the better :-)
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I am generally content with CP. There are some problems but (directed at the discontent) what else are you expecting? Utopia? Perfection? Get real. It is good that CP is open enough that people can openly criticise it. I know many sites that would moderate these discussions into oblivion. However I am saddened by the reaction some people have had. They show very little appreciation or respect. I hope some people choose their words with a bit more respect in the future. And yes, of course I am biased. This is a great place. Many of us have spent a lot of our time here and all but the worst have loyalties. As someone above said, there will be good times and bad times. Try not to be a fair weather friend. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: Try not to be a fair weather friend. Absolutely. The best type of friend to have is the one who will stand with you in bad times, to help you out no matter what, to see the best in you even when you are at your worst. So, for all the whiners and complainers: Please do something to help instead of critisising the Code Project team and be patient. Your efforts will be rewarded in the good times. And before you all get on your high-horses again let me remind you about something one of my favourite authors once wrote, "No one ever erected a statue to a critic, so they can't be held in that high a regard" (I might have to run for cover over that last remark)
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
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Is there some general discontent on/about Codeproject? I'm not a regular at the Lounge, so maybe I've missed a lot. Prize winners? Slow site? Chris not respecting people? Whats the problem, and can we solve it by a thorough discussion? Got a bit puzzled reading the "Not complaining--Just curious" thread. http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?forumid=1159&exp=0&fr=26&select=877872#xx877872xx Regards, Björn Morén Stockholm, Sweden
Code Project's hundreds of articles and several forums are free for the world to use. I don't forget this. Jason nirgle@gmail.com SonorkID 100.611
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Paul Watson wrote: Try not to be a fair weather friend. Absolutely. The best type of friend to have is the one who will stand with you in bad times, to help you out no matter what, to see the best in you even when you are at your worst. So, for all the whiners and complainers: Please do something to help instead of critisising the Code Project team and be patient. Your efforts will be rewarded in the good times. And before you all get on your high-horses again let me remind you about something one of my favourite authors once wrote, "No one ever erected a statue to a critic, so they can't be held in that high a regard" (I might have to run for cover over that last remark)
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: So, for all the whiners and complainers: Please do something to help instead of critisising the Code Project team and be patient. Well, we are some who have offered that, but everyone gets turned down. Tom posted something about that yeaterday. - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
My Photos[^] New developersite: RealDevs.Net -
Daniel Turini wrote: Psst! Don't talk too loud or Marc may hear it! Too late! :-D Daniel Turini wrote: 1,242,226 members This is a really misleading number, don't you think? I mean, you have to become a member so that you can download an article's code. But it certainly is no indication of ACTIVE members, is it? Heaven forbid that the "online" number at the top of the forum would be this large! Daniel Turini wrote: there maybe a few old timers Is there no respect for us oldtimers? :-D Daniel Turini wrote: We are statistically irrelevant Hmmm. Maybe that's why I don't vote either. I'm statistically irrelevant among the 100's of millions people in this country. :-D Daniel Turini wrote: The rest of us are simply people who are allowed to use CP. What Nathan and Colin said. The rest of us are simply the people who see the ads and possibly buy the products. :-D Daniel Turini wrote: Using CodeProject, as any other site, is a privilege, not a right. IMO, if you offer a service on the Internet, then people expect a certain quality of service. Therefore, it seems that it IS a right to go to this site and expect a certain QoS. If someone wants to make it a priviledge, then it should be structured in such a way that the QoS and other privileges are subscriber based. My 2c: if I were an advertiser on CP, I would be disgruntled with the frequent downtime, slowness, and growing discontent. Come to think of it, since articles are a way of advertising the author, I AM disgruntled! Sufficiently so that I wanted a different presence for some of my articles so that when I refer people to them, I can expect a certain level of QoS. Well, those are my opinions. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
Marc Clifton wrote: Therefore, it seems that it IS a right to go to this site and expect a certain QoS. Funny story. I'm in the market for an XML editor, and I thought MyXaml might be one ( I still don't know ). As I didn't spot the link in your posts ( and I will now go to them shortly ), I went to RealDevs, expecting to have it advertised to me. I saw there was an article I wouldn't mind reading, and got this: --------------------------- Microsoft Internet Explorer --------------------------- Internet Explorer cannot open the Internet site http://www.realdevs.net/default.aspx?tabid=113&type=art&site=29&parentid=12. Operation aborted --------------------------- OK --------------------------- Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Marc Clifton wrote: Therefore, it seems that it IS a right to go to this site and expect a certain QoS. Funny story. I'm in the market for an XML editor, and I thought MyXaml might be one ( I still don't know ). As I didn't spot the link in your posts ( and I will now go to them shortly ), I went to RealDevs, expecting to have it advertised to me. I saw there was an article I wouldn't mind reading, and got this: --------------------------- Microsoft Internet Explorer --------------------------- Internet Explorer cannot open the Internet site http://www.realdevs.net/default.aspx?tabid=113&type=art&site=29&parentid=12. Operation aborted --------------------------- OK --------------------------- Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: _Internet Explorer cannot open the Internet site http://www.realdevs.net/default.aspx?tabid=113&type=art&site=29&parentid=12._ I get that occasionally, but apparently not other people. Anyways, doing a refresh works. We're looking into it. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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Code Project's hundreds of articles and several forums are free for the world to use. I don't forget this. Jason nirgle@gmail.com SonorkID 100.611
There seems to be lots of mixed opinions about codeproject. One thing that would help in this kind of situation is if someone from codeproject could answer the following questions that I have put together after reading through all the threads on this subject. 1) Is codeproject a community effort or is it a company? 2) If its a company, who owns it? 3) what is Dundas's role in codeproject? Tom feels that they own it? Please clarify on this. If the answer to the above questions reflects something like codeproject is a community site and that the users/authors have a say in running codeproject ,please answer the rest. Otherwise its clear that Chris is running a business and he can do anything he wants and I am not against that. He is proving a wonderful service and if he is making money I dont see anything wrong with that. 4) How much does it cost to maintain a site that has 5000 users online all the time. Since a lot of you guys do this for a living , can you give an estimate of what it costs in terms of bandwidth? If CP is short of funds , then they could even consider charging more for banner ads. I am pretty sure the companies would pay more. 5) What kind of work is being shared with the community? Did chris create a site all by himself? or did others help? I am pretty sure that we can find volunteers to do a lot of daily maintenance work. 6) If others had helped earlier in building the site, why is he refusing help from people like Tom, Daniel and others. 7) I just read in a thread where chris talks about when Zafir Anjam locked out the volunteers, isnt the same thing happening in CP? Volunteers being locked out? Is CP going to be sold in the near future and you dont want people to claim that they helped build this site?. Thanks for reading. PS: I am not against codeproject and think its the best site in the world.
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There seems to be lots of mixed opinions about codeproject. One thing that would help in this kind of situation is if someone from codeproject could answer the following questions that I have put together after reading through all the threads on this subject. 1) Is codeproject a community effort or is it a company? 2) If its a company, who owns it? 3) what is Dundas's role in codeproject? Tom feels that they own it? Please clarify on this. If the answer to the above questions reflects something like codeproject is a community site and that the users/authors have a say in running codeproject ,please answer the rest. Otherwise its clear that Chris is running a business and he can do anything he wants and I am not against that. He is proving a wonderful service and if he is making money I dont see anything wrong with that. 4) How much does it cost to maintain a site that has 5000 users online all the time. Since a lot of you guys do this for a living , can you give an estimate of what it costs in terms of bandwidth? If CP is short of funds , then they could even consider charging more for banner ads. I am pretty sure the companies would pay more. 5) What kind of work is being shared with the community? Did chris create a site all by himself? or did others help? I am pretty sure that we can find volunteers to do a lot of daily maintenance work. 6) If others had helped earlier in building the site, why is he refusing help from people like Tom, Daniel and others. 7) I just read in a thread where chris talks about when Zafir Anjam locked out the volunteers, isnt the same thing happening in CP? Volunteers being locked out? Is CP going to be sold in the near future and you dont want people to claim that they helped build this site?. Thanks for reading. PS: I am not against codeproject and think its the best site in the world.
Did you need to open a new account to ask all these questions? ;P
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
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Exactly, but people have told us to shut up and be thankfull that CP will host our articles. Some users here think that authors have become famous because of CP, and not that CP have become famous because of the authors. I know I don't have many articles here, but other people do and I do understand if they gat a bit angry when they read stuff like that... Without all the users CP would be nothing! - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
My Photos[^] New developersite: RealDevs.NetYeah. Users, authors, sponsors are all important, and are all stakeholders in CP. It must be a hard job deciding which stakeholder group holds priority at times. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Yeah. Users, authors, sponsors are all important, and are all stakeholders in CP. It must be a hard job deciding which stakeholder group holds priority at times. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
ColinDavies wrote: It must be a hard job deciding which stakeholder group holds priority at times. Yes - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
My Photos[^] New developersite: RealDevs.Net