How would you decide?
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Feeling a bit bitter, Tom ? Actually, it's not just India. I tend to get a fair bit of work out of the USA. :-) Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
I was being facetious with all the anti-outsourcing threads being posted lately. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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Mark Tutt wrote: My only real worry with C# & .NET is performance. My understanding is that performance is only an issue for the first time that any piece of code is executed ? Mark Tutt wrote: It's the ASP.NET problem. You can only have one version associated, and their stuff doesn't appear to be compatible with 1.1. Oh, OK. That's fair enough. They can't/won't fix it ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: Mark Tutt wrote: My only real worry with C# & .NET is performance. My understanding is that performance is only an issue for the first time that any piece of code is executed ? Yes, I have to play around with the pre-compilation options, I haven't tried that yet... Christian Graus wrote: Mark Tutt wrote: It's the ASP.NET problem. You can only have one version associated, and their stuff doesn't appear to be compatible with 1.1. Oh, OK. That's fair enough. They can't/won't fix it ? Nope. They're not very nice about playing well with other applications on their servers (never mind that it's the customer's machine). They also check the version numbers of various DLL's and refuse to run if a version other than what they're validated with is installed.
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Tom Archer wrote: 1. Outsource the product to India - let them decide how to write it. It would take me so long to write requirements documents good enough to develop from that I'd be better off writing it myself. I've had some experience with outsourcing projects that were not painstakingly defined. Tom Archer wrote: 2. Return to school and get a degree in accounting or something else that isn't being outsourced. Auto mechanics. Someone's got to work on the Executives and Lawyers cars. It will never pay to ship them overseas... Most any white caller work it's just a matter of time.
I'm going into landscaping myself ;) Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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Mark Tutt wrote: Most any white caller work it's just a matter of time. LOL - it took me a minute to work out that you meant 'white collar' :-) Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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LOL - sounds brilliant. Be quick, the way google are going, they might beat you to it... Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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I was being facetious with all the anti-outsourcing threads being posted lately. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
OK - I thought maybe you'd had a bad experience of late. So, while I have your ear, when can I order Inside C# 2.0 ? :-) Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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OK - I thought maybe you'd had a bad experience of late. So, while I have your ear, when can I order Inside C# 2.0 ? :-) Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
when can I order Inside C# 2.0 ? So I'm not the only one dying to get my hands on a copy. :-D C'mon Tom... :)
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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OK - I thought maybe you'd had a bad experience of late. So, while I have your ear, when can I order Inside C# 2.0 ? :-) Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: OK - I thought maybe you'd had a bad experience of late. No. I'm unhappy for the reasons I mentioned, but luckily I'm in a position where due to my book/article writing I tend to have people asking me about my availability instead of me having to look for work. Christian Graus wrote: when can I order Inside C# 2.0 ? Sorry guys. But it's looking like MS Press doesn't want to update the book. I'm getting zero feedback from them after they approached me last December about revising the book. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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when can I order Inside C# 2.0 ? So I'm not the only one dying to get my hands on a copy. :-D C'mon Tom... :)
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
I wish I could write the update to Inside C# too, David. (I really hate the fact that the last edition has so many typos due to a lousy editing job) However, as I mentioned to Christian, looking like MS Press doesn't want to update the book as I'm getting zero feedback from them after they approached me last December about revising the book. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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I wish I could write the update to Inside C# too, David. (I really hate the fact that the last edition has so many typos due to a lousy editing job) However, as I mentioned to Christian, looking like MS Press doesn't want to update the book as I'm getting zero feedback from them after they approached me last December about revising the book. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
looking like MS Press doesn't want to update the book as I'm getting zero feedback from them after they approached me last December about revising the book. So tell them you have a ton of fans who want you to rewrite the book. I'm sure we could get a pretty large petition going to get a new version in the works. :) Have you thought about maybe going with someone other than MSPress? Addison Wesley has a nice .NET line...and you'd be listed along side authors like Fritz Onion, Don Box and Chris Sells. How cool would that be? :)
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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Christian Graus wrote: OK - I thought maybe you'd had a bad experience of late. No. I'm unhappy for the reasons I mentioned, but luckily I'm in a position where due to my book/article writing I tend to have people asking me about my availability instead of me having to look for work. Christian Graus wrote: when can I order Inside C# 2.0 ? Sorry guys. But it's looking like MS Press doesn't want to update the book. I'm getting zero feedback from them after they approached me last December about revising the book. Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
Tom Archer wrote: but luckily I'm in a position where due to my book/article writing I tend to have people asking me about my availability instead of me having to look for work. Yes, I've never applied or advertised for contract work, it all comes to me via family connections or ( more prominently ) my CP articles. Tom Archer wrote: But it's looking like MS Press doesn't want to update the book. Really ? How is that possible ? Are you unable to write it through someone else if Microsoft knock it back ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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I'm going into landscaping myself ;) Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
Must have got that new house..... Richard Who now knows what to plant where but not how ? "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
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looking like MS Press doesn't want to update the book as I'm getting zero feedback from them after they approached me last December about revising the book. So tell them you have a ton of fans who want you to rewrite the book. I'm sure we could get a pretty large petition going to get a new version in the works. :) Have you thought about maybe going with someone other than MSPress? Addison Wesley has a nice .NET line...and you'd be listed along side authors like Fritz Onion, Don Box and Chris Sells. How cool would that be? :)
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Fritz Onion wrote one of my favourite ASP.NET books, but who is he ? I've never heard of him. I agree though, some of my best .NET books are the Addison Wesley ones. Same with my C++ books. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Must have got that new house..... Richard Who now knows what to plant where but not how ? "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
Yep. Funny how you can appreciate the lawn a bit more when it's your house :) Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
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Fritz Onion wrote one of my favourite ASP.NET books, but who is he ? I've never heard of him. I agree though, some of my best .NET books are the Addison Wesley ones. Same with my C++ books. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
An ASP.NET guru. ;) His blog is here: http://pluralsight.com/blogs/fritz/default.aspx
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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An ASP.NET guru. ;) His blog is here: http://pluralsight.com/blogs/fritz/default.aspx
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Cool - thanks. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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I'm going into landscaping myself ;) Cheers, Tom Archer "Use what talents you possess. The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best." - William Blake * Inside C# -Second Edition * Visual C++.NET Bible * Extending MFC Applications with the .NET Framework
You willing to travel to Louisiana for very little money then? My yard looks like crap right now. :) Jeremy Falcon
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It looks like I may be coming up on a slow period the last 6 weeks of the year, although there is still plenty of time for another contract to get signed... I've been playing with a product idea to start on while scrounging for more work, but am torn on the technology to use... If I go C++, ATL/WTL I get a fast, responsive system that will coexist happily with other applications. However, some of the nice things that are available in .NET are hard to come by, for instance a smart client that can auto-update itself, a plug-in architecture, things like the some of the P&P application blocks, etc. If I go C# and .NET, I may have performance issues on low end (CE.NET) hardware to be addressed, and may have problems if I do any web services components with coexisting with other applications. (One product I work with regularly only works with .NET 1.0, and installing 1.1 breaks some of their app's features) On the other hand, lots of functionality in the .NET framework libraries and application blocks that would require writing a lot more code in C++. Option 3 is to start with the beta .NET 2.0 SDK, port what I need forward and assume that I'll be done and well ahead of the pack when it's finally released. Might get some writing work out of that... I'll write in anything from VBScript to Assembly if it's what the job requires, so I'm language neutral. What I'm curious about, is if it were your call, how would you approach a new product development project today?
I think you need to abandon the MiroSoft world altogether. I suggest COBOL and VSAM. Maybe IMS if you want to get real fancy. No DB/2 though.;P
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It looks like I may be coming up on a slow period the last 6 weeks of the year, although there is still plenty of time for another contract to get signed... I've been playing with a product idea to start on while scrounging for more work, but am torn on the technology to use... If I go C++, ATL/WTL I get a fast, responsive system that will coexist happily with other applications. However, some of the nice things that are available in .NET are hard to come by, for instance a smart client that can auto-update itself, a plug-in architecture, things like the some of the P&P application blocks, etc. If I go C# and .NET, I may have performance issues on low end (CE.NET) hardware to be addressed, and may have problems if I do any web services components with coexisting with other applications. (One product I work with regularly only works with .NET 1.0, and installing 1.1 breaks some of their app's features) On the other hand, lots of functionality in the .NET framework libraries and application blocks that would require writing a lot more code in C++. Option 3 is to start with the beta .NET 2.0 SDK, port what I need forward and assume that I'll be done and well ahead of the pack when it's finally released. Might get some writing work out of that... I'll write in anything from VBScript to Assembly if it's what the job requires, so I'm language neutral. What I'm curious about, is if it were your call, how would you approach a new product development project today?
It's kind of hard to say without knowing more specifics about the application. But if I were building a large scale client-side gui application like Office etc. I would not use .NET. Plus, auto-update, plug-in architecture, etc. aren't that hard to implement in C++. I doubt that the .NET way is so much better that the cost-savings in development time and functionality would make it a no-brainer over C++. If you're going to go with .NET over C++ make sure you prove to yourself that all the perceived benefits are real. And that the cons will only affect a small enough percentage of your user base that it becomes negligible. Todd Smith
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Tom Archer wrote: 1. Outsource the product to India - let them decide how to write it. It would take me so long to write requirements documents good enough to develop from that I'd be better off writing it myself. I've had some experience with outsourcing projects that were not painstakingly defined. Tom Archer wrote: 2. Return to school and get a degree in accounting or something else that isn't being outsourced. Auto mechanics. Someone's got to work on the Executives and Lawyers cars. It will never pay to ship them overseas... Most any white caller work it's just a matter of time.
Mark Tutt wrote: Auto mechanics. Good plan! I made a discovery at work today that has me full of ideas. There's a treasure trove of training tapes here for certification as a Mercury Marine Mechanic and Yamaha 5-star Mechanic. Even better, I can do all the training at home and take the tests on the Internet. It's going to drive the mechanics nuts when the lowly parts guy is sporting his own certificates on the wall. :-D Besides, have you any idea what all those Lawyers and Accountants pay to have their fancy toys fixed?:omg::omg: "If it's Snowbird season, why can't we shoot them?" - Overheard in a bar in Bullhead City