I need help with VB.NET
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Watch what you say asshole, or at least have the balls to talk all your sh*t to an actual person. How interesting that someone offended by the truth about VB.NET would also be a meathead. No comments about 'VB is a good language because...', no, I get 'you insulted me so I'm gonna pound you, because if I'm stronger than you, that proves I'm smarter/better'. Good, thanks for proving my point. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: In february I'll be in SF attending VS Live. Were you not a moron, you'd have noticed that I'm not even in the USA. And people like you make me glad of it. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: No joke Oh, it's no joke. It's morons like you that devalue our entire industry, to my personal financial detriment. Thanks for that. Moron. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
I'd be more worried that he wanted to pound your arse out. Said he was going to San Francisco, bet he lives there. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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"In the real world, where adults live, size has nothing to do with intelligence. It seems you've spent too much time taking steroids. That's probably why you use VB.NET" Steriods? Actually no, I began using VB (COM) right out of school, simply because that's what my very first employer wanted, no other reason. "If you can somehow turn from this bullyboy moron into someone who is capable of an adult discussion, I'm happy to hear why you think that VB.NET deserves to be called a programming language, and to quantify my statement that it is the 'language of idiots'. If not, then just go away." Adult discussion? If I recall correctly, you're the one that began with the insults, I just responded harder. Insult the language but not the people who use for whatever reason. Here you claim that VB doesn't deserve to be called a programming language yet I wonder why so many damn employers love it and won't consider anything else. Are they all wrong and you're right? I doubt it. Go away? I'm going to be in your face for the rest of your life Giancarlo
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Actually no, I began using VB (COM) right out of school, simply because that's what my very first employer wanted, no other reason. OK, so you learned to code on the job. I get it now. It was bad luck and lack of forethought that got you into VB. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Insult the language but not the people who use for whatever reason. I've known one person who could code in VB, although I never saw his code, he was with me on a C project. He agreed with me that most VB programmers are drawn to VB because they are useless, and that because of them, the name of VB is beyond redemption. Neither he, nor I, ever claimed that no user of VB knows how to program. I said that previously. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: yet I wonder why so many damn employers love it I hear the answer to that quite often. The concern employers have is that because VB is easy, a lot of people know how to use it, and therefore they will have no trouble finding people to maintain their codebase. That was a problem more in my C++ days, than now that I mostly use C# ( although I still enjoy the odd C or C++ project when I can get it ) Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Are they all wrong and you're right? No, they have different concerns to me. I care about how to write a good system, they care about a system that works, and that they can find someone else to work on if I am not available. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Go away? I'm going to be in your face for the rest of your life ROTFL - I doubt it. I notice you're dodging the 'what languages do you know' question with great fervour. I suspect that the only way you'll be 'in my face' is if in 5 years time when VB is dead, you show up to clean my pool. And no, I'm beyond being nice. You are an idiot. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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I'd be more worried that he wanted to pound your arse out. Said he was going to San Francisco, bet he lives there. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
ROTFL - see, I didn't even consider that (obvious) possibility. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: What's wrong with you man, here you are shouting at the world that VB programmers are idiots and you wonder why I or anyone else would take offense to this. I've been using VB all my life simply because that's where the money has been at, no other reason. Not using VB has not resulted in me starving. Using VB until VB.NET would have resulted in you needing access to C++ components to do anything remotely useful or non-generic. I get a lot of work fixing VB.NET projects, I'm doing one right now, hence my mood when it comes to discussing it. I have in past been more careful to say that there are more idiots in VB.NET than any other language, but there are probably 1-2% of people using VB.NET who can program. I've yet to see their work. When I said 'VB.NET is the language of idiots', I meant it. An idiot who wants to code should learn VB.NET. But you're reversing the statement, I'm sure it's possible that you're in the 2%, and I never denied that they exist. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: For a managed application, who cares? Anyone who wants a language that's nice to code in ? Seriously, I could talk for days about the ways in which C# beats VB.NET from the POV of the coder. And as C# grows ( generics, anyone ) the gap will only widen. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Whatever the boss wants, that's what he or she gets. The 'boss' generally pays coders to know what they are talking about. I've succeeded in moving a lot of projects to C# from VB.NET ( existing and projected ), and after this one, I will refuse to do any work that is VB.NET based. Actually, this one was a mistake, I didn't ask what language was used, and I'm honouring my commitment. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: I don't care, and I certainly don't think C# is anymore complicated than VB. No, it's actually less complex, in terms of using and reading it. That would be my point. VB syntax is designed to help stupid people learn it, but the lack of learning curve results in a clumsy language that looks ugly. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: C# is currently the premier language only because it has the best of all worlds, including but not limited to java, c++, and of course VB. C# is the 'premier' language for web development because J2EE sucks, and so does VB.NET. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Or are you that naive to think that C# has n
"Using VB until VB.NET would have resulted in you needing access to C++ components to do anything remotely useful or non-generic." The only time I ever had to use C++ in the VB COM days was when not doing so made the system unstable, but other than that, the Win32 API and MTS made things happen. As far as object orientation was concerned, never had any problems implementing most patterns, if not all patterns, although given VB COM's lack of implementation inheritance, I always had to rely on object composition as opposed to class composition, but in the end it all worked out. "I get a lot of work fixing VB.NET projects, I'm doing one right now, hence my mood when it comes to discussing it. I have in past been more careful to say that there are more idiots in VB.NET than any other language, but there are probably 1-2% of people using VB.NET who can program. I've yet to see their work." You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. "Anyone who wants a language that's nice to code in ? Seriously, I could talk for days about the ways in which C# beats VB.NET from the POV of the coder. And as C# grows ( generics, anyone ) the gap will only widen." Well talk the ways! I see absolutely no advantage of C# over VB.NET, and where there is one, VB strikes right back. Some folks argue that C# is better because it has a C style syntax and, therefore, makes it easier to learn other C based languages. Who cares, a language is language, and if you're able to program in one language yet not in another after a couple of days of hitting the books and the online help, then you're not a programmer and you need to find something else to do. You see I don't judge systems based on the implementation language but rather on the patterns used to implement the system. Whether those patterns are implemented in C++, C#, Delphi, SmallTalk, or even COBOL for heaven sakes, as long as they're there, I'm cool. Where the hell do you get the idea that C# will continue to get better and VB will continue to get worse, and, furthermore, why the hell do you bring up generics for heaven's sake. Generics is a feature of the framework, not C#. The only feature that I know of that C# will have but not VB in version 2.0 is anonymous methods, and yes, I did almost cry, but oh well, we'll get it from MS, we just have to ask. Everything else, we've pretty much got. And what's with this shit about the C# programmers crying so hard that MS finally decided to give the power programmers edit and continue. Edit
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First of all, this is not the place for programming questions. If you can't work that out from the big banner above where you typed this question, you should move into a career more suited to your skills, like perhaps a circus geek. Secondly, and I say this with respect, VB.NET is the language of idiots. I've been forced to use it of late, and everything that I've seen has confirmed my suspicions. If you want to be a programmer, I suggest two easy steps 1. Learn to read. 2. Learn a programming language. I recommend C#. <edit>Yes, I am having a bad day. But I'd normally have said the same thing, just perhaps worded it a little more carefully</edit> Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
You know… I have been watching this VB vs. xxxx war evolve here today as well as most of my programming career and really don’t want to get 'into it' but feel that I have to make some kind of statement about what I see. For starters I am NOT going to get dragged into a long religious war about what language is better. This will be my last post in this thread on this subject, but I do have some thing that I feel I have to say… kengiB, I feel your pain, I really do, but you learned your lesson here the hard way. You posted a programming question in the Lounge (where it does not belong) and caught hell for it. Pull your self up and deal with it. You have not been here very long and got slapped for screwing up on that aspect. Sorry, but people here get quite adamant about that rule. There is a VB specific message area here where all your questions are welcome. Christian, grow up for Christ sake. Had a bad day? Ok, get a punching bag don't take it out on the residents. What makes you think that you can get off talking to people that way? Do you think that you could get away with it if you walked up to a person that spoke German and told them that 'German was a language of Idiots"? Have a bit of respect for people that have never done you a damn bit of harm and stop before you vent. Talk intelligently and maybe you might get an intelligent response. Personally I think that your response was racist and uncalled for. Giancarlo, grow up too. There is no reason (even if you are pissed off) for using that type of language in a public message area. Follow the darn rules… "The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read then don't post it.". You just show a complete lack of respect for everyone else here when you talk that way and I (as a fellow Vber) don’t need you defending me that way. It just tends to lend credence to the level of maturity that people tack onto VB developers as a whole. People, I really don't care what language you program in, but I would expect that we all have a bit of decorum here and at least act like intelligent people that are able to discuss things rationally and with a bit of intelligence. A simple 'Don't post programming questions in the Lounge…' would have been sufficient. Why take your bad day out on someone else? It is no excuse. Yeah, the general attitude towards VB really makes ME want to contribute articles here…… Right…
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that count
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"Using VB until VB.NET would have resulted in you needing access to C++ components to do anything remotely useful or non-generic." The only time I ever had to use C++ in the VB COM days was when not doing so made the system unstable, but other than that, the Win32 API and MTS made things happen. As far as object orientation was concerned, never had any problems implementing most patterns, if not all patterns, although given VB COM's lack of implementation inheritance, I always had to rely on object composition as opposed to class composition, but in the end it all worked out. "I get a lot of work fixing VB.NET projects, I'm doing one right now, hence my mood when it comes to discussing it. I have in past been more careful to say that there are more idiots in VB.NET than any other language, but there are probably 1-2% of people using VB.NET who can program. I've yet to see their work." You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. "Anyone who wants a language that's nice to code in ? Seriously, I could talk for days about the ways in which C# beats VB.NET from the POV of the coder. And as C# grows ( generics, anyone ) the gap will only widen." Well talk the ways! I see absolutely no advantage of C# over VB.NET, and where there is one, VB strikes right back. Some folks argue that C# is better because it has a C style syntax and, therefore, makes it easier to learn other C based languages. Who cares, a language is language, and if you're able to program in one language yet not in another after a couple of days of hitting the books and the online help, then you're not a programmer and you need to find something else to do. You see I don't judge systems based on the implementation language but rather on the patterns used to implement the system. Whether those patterns are implemented in C++, C#, Delphi, SmallTalk, or even COBOL for heaven sakes, as long as they're there, I'm cool. Where the hell do you get the idea that C# will continue to get better and VB will continue to get worse, and, furthermore, why the hell do you bring up generics for heaven's sake. Generics is a feature of the framework, not C#. The only feature that I know of that C# will have but not VB in version 2.0 is anonymous methods, and yes, I did almost cry, but oh well, we'll get it from MS, we just have to ask. Everything else, we've pretty much got. And what's with this shit about the C# programmers crying so hard that MS finally decided to give the power programmers edit and continue. Edit
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. You're right, I do make money off the idiots of the world. Doesn't stop them being idiots. And I'd make as much, with a lot less stress, if I got to write the systems properly in the first place. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: "You didn't answer my question - what languages do you actively code in ?" VB you fool, and that's why I take offense at all the sh*t you talk. OK, so my point is made. All your 'I am a programmer, I use the best tool for the job' talk is bollocks. You are a VB weenie, you've never bothered to learn anything else, and you'll soon be on the scrap heap. For the record, I have done large projects in C, C++, Java, Python, C# (obviously) and VB.NET ( sadly ). I've also used SVG, XSLT, XML, XPath, JScript, VBScript extensively in the course of those projects. I've been published in magazines writing about C, C++, C#, SVG, XSLT, and Javascript. So you can go and get stuffed. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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You know… I have been watching this VB vs. xxxx war evolve here today as well as most of my programming career and really don’t want to get 'into it' but feel that I have to make some kind of statement about what I see. For starters I am NOT going to get dragged into a long religious war about what language is better. This will be my last post in this thread on this subject, but I do have some thing that I feel I have to say… kengiB, I feel your pain, I really do, but you learned your lesson here the hard way. You posted a programming question in the Lounge (where it does not belong) and caught hell for it. Pull your self up and deal with it. You have not been here very long and got slapped for screwing up on that aspect. Sorry, but people here get quite adamant about that rule. There is a VB specific message area here where all your questions are welcome. Christian, grow up for Christ sake. Had a bad day? Ok, get a punching bag don't take it out on the residents. What makes you think that you can get off talking to people that way? Do you think that you could get away with it if you walked up to a person that spoke German and told them that 'German was a language of Idiots"? Have a bit of respect for people that have never done you a damn bit of harm and stop before you vent. Talk intelligently and maybe you might get an intelligent response. Personally I think that your response was racist and uncalled for. Giancarlo, grow up too. There is no reason (even if you are pissed off) for using that type of language in a public message area. Follow the darn rules… "The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read then don't post it.". You just show a complete lack of respect for everyone else here when you talk that way and I (as a fellow Vber) don’t need you defending me that way. It just tends to lend credence to the level of maturity that people tack onto VB developers as a whole. People, I really don't care what language you program in, but I would expect that we all have a bit of decorum here and at least act like intelligent people that are able to discuss things rationally and with a bit of intelligence. A simple 'Don't post programming questions in the Lounge…' would have been sufficient. Why take your bad day out on someone else? It is no excuse. Yeah, the general attitude towards VB really makes ME want to contribute articles here…… Right…
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that count
Ray Cassick wrote: This will be my last post in this thread on this subject I'll reply anyhow, seeing as you addressed me... Ray Cassick wrote: Had a bad day? Ok, get a punching bag don't take it out on the residents. I've had a bad WEEK, because of this VB.NET project, and other issues ( see the soapbox ). However, the fact remains that if it wasn't me, it would have been someone else. No programming questions in the lounge. It says it in big letters. And this other idiot attacked me, not vice versa. I said that VB is the language of idiots. By which I meant that VB is written to appeal to people based on simplicity, rather than power, and it suffers for it. Any other day, I may have worded it better, but it was still not a personal attack, certainly not like the reply this Giancarlo dude threw at me. And he's sure shown himself to be a sterling example of all that is good in VB world. Ray Cassick wrote: Do you think that you could get away with it if you walked up to a person that spoke German and told them that 'German was a language of Idiots"? The analogy does not hold, for the reasons I stated. German was not designed to be easy to learn and to shield you from your mistakes. It's not a language that attracts people who want to do things the easy way. They have three words for 'the', for goodness sakes. Ray Cassick wrote: Personally I think that your response was racist and uncalled for. Perhaps it was over the top. Hell, it WAS over the top. Someone was just stupid enough to draw my attention when I was already pretty unhappy. But racist ? How do you work that out ? I could care less where he comes from, and I'd have reacted roughly the same way to a C++ question. Ray Cassick wrote: It just tends to lend credence to the level of maturity that people tack onto VB developers as a whole. Amen to that. And, once again, I have said a lot of anti VB stuff recently, and I stand by it. And I'm happy to discuss it intelligently. I think you'll find I've generally been careful to say that I don't deny that there is a minority of good VB programmers in the world. You guys exist, you're just outnumbered, and the language is the reason. That, and people like Giancarlo. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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First of all, this is not the place for programming questions. If you can't work that out from the big banner above where you typed this question, you should move into a career more suited to your skills, like perhaps a circus geek. Secondly, and I say this with respect, VB.NET is the language of idiots. I've been forced to use it of late, and everything that I've seen has confirmed my suspicions. If you want to be a programmer, I suggest two easy steps 1. Learn to read. 2. Learn a programming language. I recommend C#. <edit>Yes, I am having a bad day. But I'd normally have said the same thing, just perhaps worded it a little more carefully</edit> Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: But I'd normally have said the same thing, just perhaps worded it a little more carefully 'circus geek' would have been 'entertainer', and 'idiots' mentally challenged? :-) "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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"Gosh, I wonder...." You wonder why I take offense? What's wrong with you man, here you are shouting at the world that VB programmers are idiots and you wonder why I or anyone else would take offense to this. I've been using VB all my life simply because that's where the money has been at, no other reason. "Noble words. I don't see how that translates to using VB.NET, ever, seeing as C# does the same job, without all the crap. I'm curious to know if you mean this ( that is, how many languages do you use, and in what context do you think VB.NET is the best choice ), or if you just saw it on a message board somewhere." What's your point? For a managed application, who cares? Whatever the boss wants, that's what he or she gets. If they want it written in C#, so be it. I don't care, and I certainly don't think C# is anymore complicated than VB. C# is currently the premier language only because it has the best of all worlds, including but not limited to java, c++, and of course VB. Or are you that naive to think that C# has no resemblance to VB with respect to the development experience. Windows Form, a better VB 6 form, a Web Form, a better VB 6 Web Class.
Giancarlo, It's been a sad fact that there is a general anti-VB sentiment here, ever since the bad old days when I was still a VB6 programmer. I think I just got used to it. His hands felt the grasp of strong white hairs, and he knew he would not survive this fungus.
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"In the real world, where adults live, size has nothing to do with intelligence. It seems you've spent too much time taking steroids. That's probably why you use VB.NET" Steriods? Actually no, I began using VB (COM) right out of school, simply because that's what my very first employer wanted, no other reason. "If you can somehow turn from this bullyboy moron into someone who is capable of an adult discussion, I'm happy to hear why you think that VB.NET deserves to be called a programming language, and to quantify my statement that it is the 'language of idiots'. If not, then just go away." Adult discussion? If I recall correctly, you're the one that began with the insults, I just responded harder. Insult the language but not the people who use for whatever reason. Here you claim that VB doesn't deserve to be called a programming language yet I wonder why so many damn employers love it and won't consider anything else. Are they all wrong and you're right? I doubt it. Go away? I'm going to be in your face for the rest of your life Giancarlo
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. You're right, I do make money off the idiots of the world. Doesn't stop them being idiots. And I'd make as much, with a lot less stress, if I got to write the systems properly in the first place. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: "You didn't answer my question - what languages do you actively code in ?" VB you fool, and that's why I take offense at all the sh*t you talk. OK, so my point is made. All your 'I am a programmer, I use the best tool for the job' talk is bollocks. You are a VB weenie, you've never bothered to learn anything else, and you'll soon be on the scrap heap. For the record, I have done large projects in C, C++, Java, Python, C# (obviously) and VB.NET ( sadly ). I've also used SVG, XSLT, XML, XPath, JScript, VBScript extensively in the course of those projects. I've been published in magazines writing about C, C++, C#, SVG, XSLT, and Javascript. So you can go and get stuffed. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
"You're right, I do make money off the idiots of the world. Doesn't stop them being idiots. And I'd make as much, with a lot less stress, if I got to write the systems properly in the first place." Don't cry, we don't always get what we want now, do we. If you feel that strongly about it, just don't do the job, but then your wallet suffers, doesn't it. Go inside that office and tell the boss, "let me rewrite the entire system in C# because the user is really going to like how buttons react to C# code as opposed to VB code". Let me know how it turns out. "OK, so my point is made. All your 'I am a programmer, I use the best tool for the job' talk is bollocks. You are a VB weenie, you've never bothered to learn anything else, and you'll soon be on the scrap heap." No need to learn anything else related to a programming language when the one I use is perfectly capable of doing almost anything, and with 2.0 things only get better. My time is far better spent keeping up to date with other more important aspects of technology, SOA, XML and related (XPATH/XSLT/XQUERY 2.0), YUKON, new and revised design patterns, regular expression (awesome) etc... You don't expect me to go to my local book store and buy "C# The Language". What the hell for? So that I know of two ways of doing the same thing. "For the record, I have done large projects in C, C++, Java, Python, C# (obviously) and VB.NET ( sadly ). I've also used SVG, XSLT, XML, XPath, JScript, VBScript extensively in the course of those projects. I've been published in magazines writing about C, C++, C#, SVG, XSLT, and Javascript." No need to reiterate, I've never questioned your skills, on the contrary, and I'll even admit that I respect you as a programmer, but I sure as hell don't respect your over generalizations and your quest to make all VB programmers look like fools. Insult the language, not those who use it, many of whom aren't programmers, just hobbyists. "So you can go and get stuffed" I certainly will, I'll admit I'm a freakin pig. Love to eat! Giancar
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Giancarlo, It's been a sad fact that there is a general anti-VB sentiment here, ever since the bad old days when I was still a VB6 programmer. I think I just got used to it. His hands felt the grasp of strong white hairs, and he knew he would not survive this fungus.
"It's been a sad fact that there is a general anti-VB sentiment here, ever since the bad old days when I was still a VB6 programmer." I know dude, and I have no problem with that. But Christian takes it a step too far with his constant insults. Furthermore, although he's an awesome programmer, just like the many here at CP, I'm not intimidated by anyone of them, for I spend way too much time in this field to give in to anyone's bullshit. Also, what do you mean by the bad old days of VB COM? Given the time, VB 6 rocked. Sure I would never go back, but I am certainly not ashamed of my work as a VB COM programmer. Giancarlo
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Is this it, this is the end? I was so enjoying this discussion too... I was a VB developer once, I frickin' hated everything about it. That language should have died at Vn5 when it became obsolete.
Well you're certainly not making the decisions at MS. VB was born and continues to exist for one reason only, and that's to make MS an even bigger cash cow. So you think because you and others don't like it's just going to go away? Please, this is business, not personal I know your type, you're one of those VB COM programmers that always felt down in light of MFC, and now you think that since you've switched over to C#, the C folks will accept you. Pathetic! What actually makes you think you can turn around and write that same awesome C# app in MFC? What, do you actually think a C# programmer is one in the same with an MFC programmer. Yeah right. C# != MFC, MFC > C# Giancarlo Giancarlo
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"It's been a sad fact that there is a general anti-VB sentiment here, ever since the bad old days when I was still a VB6 programmer." I know dude, and I have no problem with that. But Christian takes it a step too far with his constant insults. Furthermore, although he's an awesome programmer, just like the many here at CP, I'm not intimidated by anyone of them, for I spend way too much time in this field to give in to anyone's bullshit. Also, what do you mean by the bad old days of VB COM? Given the time, VB 6 rocked. Sure I would never go back, but I am certainly not ashamed of my work as a VB COM programmer. Giancarlo
I am not ashamed in the least of most of my VB6 work, but when I use the term "bad old days" it's only because I've been doing some unavoidable maintenance lately on VB6 legacy components, and it's much less fun than my C# work. His hands felt the grasp of strong white hairs, and he knew he would not survive this fungus.
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First of all, this is not the place for programming questions. If you can't work that out from the big banner above where you typed this question, you should move into a career more suited to your skills, like perhaps a circus geek. Secondly, and I say this with respect, VB.NET is the language of idiots. I've been forced to use it of late, and everything that I've seen has confirmed my suspicions. If you want to be a programmer, I suggest two easy steps 1. Learn to read. 2. Learn a programming language. I recommend C#. <edit>Yes, I am having a bad day. But I'd normally have said the same thing, just perhaps worded it a little more carefully</edit> Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
>First of all, this is not the place for programming questions. If you can't >work that out from the big banner above where you typed this question, you >should move into a career more suited to your skills, like perhaps a circus >geek. I think it should be you who should look for some other suitable career because to be a good CS person first you have to be able to respectfully answer people if you know the answer. Secondly its a lounge and it does not specify anywhere that "its illegal to ask anybody of your programming problems, if you do they'll bite you, they r dogs!" >Secondly, and I say this with respect, VB.NET is the language of idiots. just by saying you are respectful doesnt mean you r. VB.net is changed, its not a vb6 anymore, the toy language you used to remember. Its got every feature that C# language has, you cant even prove that you can make better efficient or fast programs in C# that vb.net is incapable of doing. Go and study MSIL. >yes I am having a bad day. maybe you didnt get laid lately! Any way man, Go, Learn, and come back. Oh btw leave .net goto Java, thats better for you, but maybe even java community wont want to have you, so again: change your career! Have a bad day! "may the force be never with you"
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Well you're certainly not making the decisions at MS. VB was born and continues to exist for one reason only, and that's to make MS an even bigger cash cow. So you think because you and others don't like it's just going to go away? Please, this is business, not personal I know your type, you're one of those VB COM programmers that always felt down in light of MFC, and now you think that since you've switched over to C#, the C folks will accept you. Pathetic! What actually makes you think you can turn around and write that same awesome C# app in MFC? What, do you actually think a C# programmer is one in the same with an MFC programmer. Yeah right. C# != MFC, MFC > C# Giancarlo Giancarlo
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: C# != MFC, MFC > C# lol here you are trying to compare language with library... that says something ;P I am Sorry that I missed so wonderful discussion. (Had to sleep :-O) David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: so please, keep out of this Sorry, I couldn't resist! Let me put it this way. Christian is having a "Marc day", so it'd be nice if you could cut him some slack. We all need to vent once in a while, and while being in the direct path of a heated vent isn't any fun, the best thing to do is put up the deflector shields rather than blast away with full phasers and photon torpedoes. imHo. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
Marc Clifton wrote: ...the best thing to do is put up the deflector shields... I agree. This thread should not have been longer than 3-4 posts at most. Some folks have not learned the fine art of "ignoring opinions" and instead take offense to everything.
"Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I cannot change your opinion. I can, however, change what influences your opinion." - David Crow
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: C# != MFC, MFC > C# lol here you are trying to compare language with library... that says something ;P I am Sorry that I missed so wonderful discussion. (Had to sleep :-O) David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
Listen junior, it's obvious I'm trying to make explicit the differences between C# and C++, more specifically, emphasizing the fact that it's a whole lot easier to build an application in C#, hence, .net, than it is to do so with C++ using MFC. Are you done taking all your calculus classes yet junior? How about that introduction to programming course? Make sure you take off your diapers before you get on the bandwagon junior. Once you finish school you'll realize that that's where the academia ends and the real world begins. Giancarlo
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>First of all, this is not the place for programming questions. If you can't >work that out from the big banner above where you typed this question, you >should move into a career more suited to your skills, like perhaps a circus >geek. I think it should be you who should look for some other suitable career because to be a good CS person first you have to be able to respectfully answer people if you know the answer. Secondly its a lounge and it does not specify anywhere that "its illegal to ask anybody of your programming problems, if you do they'll bite you, they r dogs!" >Secondly, and I say this with respect, VB.NET is the language of idiots. just by saying you are respectful doesnt mean you r. VB.net is changed, its not a vb6 anymore, the toy language you used to remember. Its got every feature that C# language has, you cant even prove that you can make better efficient or fast programs in C# that vb.net is incapable of doing. Go and study MSIL. >yes I am having a bad day. maybe you didnt get laid lately! Any way man, Go, Learn, and come back. Oh btw leave .net goto Java, thats better for you, but maybe even java community wont want to have you, so again: change your career! Have a bad day! "may the force be never with you"
adeelbutt wrote: I think it should be you who should look for some other suitable career because to be a good CS person first you have to be able to respectfully answer people if you know the answer. LOL - is that right. I guess my record when people ask in the right forum will hold me in good stead then I don't believe you're right tho. adeelbutt wrote: Secondly its a lounge and it does not specify anywhere that "its illegal to ask anybody of your programming problems, if you do they'll bite you, they r dogs!" It doesn't say that because the people who coded the lounge can spell. It DOES say not to ask programming questions tho. adeelbutt wrote: VB.net is changed, its not a vb6 anymore, I've been using VB.NET. It's still crap. You can now write programs in it, but the syntax is still terrible and it still lets terrible things happen in the name of helping people who really shouldn't be coding, get by. adeelbutt wrote: you cant even prove that you can make better efficient or fast programs in C# that vb.net is incapable of doing. Go and study MSIL. Great, I knew this thread would attract the morons. Read my posts again. I don't deny that VB.NET ocmpiles to MSIL. But the compiler in the middle, and the4 syntax of the language, are the problems. I've been using it for a bit now, I know whereof I speak. adeelbutt wrote: Any way man, Go, Learn, and come back. Oh btw leave .net goto Java, thats better for you, but maybe even java community wont want to have you, so again: change your career! Have a bad day! "may the force be never with you" You are an idiot and you have my invitation to get stuffed. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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"You're right, I do make money off the idiots of the world. Doesn't stop them being idiots. And I'd make as much, with a lot less stress, if I got to write the systems properly in the first place." Don't cry, we don't always get what we want now, do we. If you feel that strongly about it, just don't do the job, but then your wallet suffers, doesn't it. Go inside that office and tell the boss, "let me rewrite the entire system in C# because the user is really going to like how buttons react to C# code as opposed to VB code". Let me know how it turns out. "OK, so my point is made. All your 'I am a programmer, I use the best tool for the job' talk is bollocks. You are a VB weenie, you've never bothered to learn anything else, and you'll soon be on the scrap heap." No need to learn anything else related to a programming language when the one I use is perfectly capable of doing almost anything, and with 2.0 things only get better. My time is far better spent keeping up to date with other more important aspects of technology, SOA, XML and related (XPATH/XSLT/XQUERY 2.0), YUKON, new and revised design patterns, regular expression (awesome) etc... You don't expect me to go to my local book store and buy "C# The Language". What the hell for? So that I know of two ways of doing the same thing. "For the record, I have done large projects in C, C++, Java, Python, C# (obviously) and VB.NET ( sadly ). I've also used SVG, XSLT, XML, XPath, JScript, VBScript extensively in the course of those projects. I've been published in magazines writing about C, C++, C#, SVG, XSLT, and Javascript." No need to reiterate, I've never questioned your skills, on the contrary, and I'll even admit that I respect you as a programmer, but I sure as hell don't respect your over generalizations and your quest to make all VB programmers look like fools. Insult the language, not those who use it, many of whom aren't programmers, just hobbyists. "So you can go and get stuffed" I certainly will, I'll admit I'm a freakin pig. Love to eat! Giancar
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: If you feel that strongly about it, just don't do the job, but then your wallet suffers, doesn't it If there were endless hours in the day, it would. As it stands, 3rd world programmers have pushed the price of web development through the floor anyhow, image processing work is far more lucrative anyhow ( read, pays above the poverty line ). I am only dong remote work, locally I work for a company doing asp.net, so I can't go for local work outside. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Go inside that office and tell the boss, "let me rewrite the entire system in C# because the user is really going to like how buttons react to C# code as opposed to VB code". Let me know how it turns out. Since you asked, we've had 100% success. First we fix some of the VB.NET project ( man, the one I'm on now is terrible, it's all in one project, the DB code is split between a 'global class', stored procedures and code in the codebehind, it puts all variables on the URL, no viewstate, it's the worst pile of crap I have ever seen ), then having shown how much better we are than the VB guy before us, we put forward our case, which is 'we will fix the rest of the site, turn it into something that is engineered instead of thrown together, but we insist on C#'. Everyone to date has been so glad to find real programmers that they have accepted. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: No need to learn anything else related to a programming language when the one I use is perfectly capable of doing almost anything The scope of your work must be very narrow then. It still doesn't give you the right to blather on about the 'right tool for the job', when you only have one tool. That's just dumb. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: XPATH/XSLT/XQUERY 2.0 Funny enough, I find time to keep up with all that stuff as well. I've been doing some C#/ASP.NET 2.0 work of late. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: regular expression (awesome) Yeah, regex is pretty cool. Do you have the O Reilly book ? If not, you should get it. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: You don't expect me to go to my local book store and buy "C# The Language". What the hell for? So that I know of two ways of doing the same thing. Perhaps so you have the right to claim that you choose the best tool for the job, that you're a programmer and not a slave to one language. When I only knew