I need help with VB.NET
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Watch what you say asshole, or at least have the balls to talk all your sh*t to an actual person. How interesting that someone offended by the truth about VB.NET would also be a meathead. No comments about 'VB is a good language because...', no, I get 'you insulted me so I'm gonna pound you, because if I'm stronger than you, that proves I'm smarter/better'. Good, thanks for proving my point. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: In february I'll be in SF attending VS Live. Were you not a moron, you'd have noticed that I'm not even in the USA. And people like you make me glad of it. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: No joke Oh, it's no joke. It's morons like you that devalue our entire industry, to my personal financial detriment. Thanks for that. Moron. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
"How interesting that someone offended by the truth about VB.NET would also be a meathead. No comments about 'VB is a good language because...', no, I get 'you insulted me so I'm gonna pound you, because if I'm stronger than you, that proves I'm smarter/better'. Good, thanks for proving my point." What makes you think I give a rat's ass about VB or any other language? I'm a programmer you fool, I do whatever needs to be done to get the job done. I don't care about any particular language. You're just a punk that likes to talk a whole lot shit. Forgive me but I respect only those that respect me. Giancarlo
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"How interesting that someone offended by the truth about VB.NET would also be a meathead. No comments about 'VB is a good language because...', no, I get 'you insulted me so I'm gonna pound you, because if I'm stronger than you, that proves I'm smarter/better'. Good, thanks for proving my point." What makes you think I give a rat's ass about VB or any other language? I'm a programmer you fool, I do whatever needs to be done to get the job done. I don't care about any particular language. You're just a punk that likes to talk a whole lot shit. Forgive me but I respect only those that respect me. Giancarlo
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: What makes you think I give a rat's ass about VB or any other language? Gosh, I wonder.... Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: I'm a programmer you fool, I do whatever needs to be done to get the job done. I don't care about any particular language. Noble words. I don't see how that translates to using VB.NET, ever, seeing as C# does the same job, without all the crap. I'm curious to know if you mean this ( that is, how many languages do you use, and in what context do you think VB.NET is the best choice ), or if you just saw it on a message board somewhere. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: You're just a punk that likes to talk a whole lot sh*t. Like I said, I'm happy to intelligently explain why VB.NET is a useless joke. I can do it without swearing, threatening, or calling people names. I doubt you can do the same. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: the last guy that called me an idiot to my face got dropped like a f***ing pancake. Yes, but was he right? Something tells me maybe he was. :-D Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
Please Marc, stay out of this, I really would hate to get into this quarrel with you, only because I consider you a great programmer. actually, there's no doubt christian is a awesome programmer as well, however, he just talks too too much, and I can't stand it. so please, keep out of this Giancarlo
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: What makes you think I give a rat's ass about VB or any other language? Gosh, I wonder.... Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: I'm a programmer you fool, I do whatever needs to be done to get the job done. I don't care about any particular language. Noble words. I don't see how that translates to using VB.NET, ever, seeing as C# does the same job, without all the crap. I'm curious to know if you mean this ( that is, how many languages do you use, and in what context do you think VB.NET is the best choice ), or if you just saw it on a message board somewhere. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: You're just a punk that likes to talk a whole lot sh*t. Like I said, I'm happy to intelligently explain why VB.NET is a useless joke. I can do it without swearing, threatening, or calling people names. I doubt you can do the same. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
"Gosh, I wonder...." You wonder why I take offense? What's wrong with you man, here you are shouting at the world that VB programmers are idiots and you wonder why I or anyone else would take offense to this. I've been using VB all my life simply because that's where the money has been at, no other reason. "Noble words. I don't see how that translates to using VB.NET, ever, seeing as C# does the same job, without all the crap. I'm curious to know if you mean this ( that is, how many languages do you use, and in what context do you think VB.NET is the best choice ), or if you just saw it on a message board somewhere." What's your point? For a managed application, who cares? Whatever the boss wants, that's what he or she gets. If they want it written in C#, so be it. I don't care, and I certainly don't think C# is anymore complicated than VB. C# is currently the premier language only because it has the best of all worlds, including but not limited to java, c++, and of course VB. Or are you that naive to think that C# has no resemblance to VB with respect to the development experience. Windows Form, a better VB 6 form, a Web Form, a better VB 6 Web Class.
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Please Marc, stay out of this, I really would hate to get into this quarrel with you, only because I consider you a great programmer. actually, there's no doubt christian is a awesome programmer as well, however, he just talks too too much, and I can't stand it. so please, keep out of this Giancarlo
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: so please, keep out of this Sorry, I couldn't resist! Let me put it this way. Christian is having a "Marc day", so it'd be nice if you could cut him some slack. We all need to vent once in a while, and while being in the direct path of a heated vent isn't any fun, the best thing to do is put up the deflector shields rather than blast away with full phasers and photon torpedoes. imHo. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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"Gosh, I wonder...." You wonder why I take offense? What's wrong with you man, here you are shouting at the world that VB programmers are idiots and you wonder why I or anyone else would take offense to this. I've been using VB all my life simply because that's where the money has been at, no other reason. "Noble words. I don't see how that translates to using VB.NET, ever, seeing as C# does the same job, without all the crap. I'm curious to know if you mean this ( that is, how many languages do you use, and in what context do you think VB.NET is the best choice ), or if you just saw it on a message board somewhere." What's your point? For a managed application, who cares? Whatever the boss wants, that's what he or she gets. If they want it written in C#, so be it. I don't care, and I certainly don't think C# is anymore complicated than VB. C# is currently the premier language only because it has the best of all worlds, including but not limited to java, c++, and of course VB. Or are you that naive to think that C# has no resemblance to VB with respect to the development experience. Windows Form, a better VB 6 form, a Web Form, a better VB 6 Web Class.
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: What's wrong with you man, here you are shouting at the world that VB programmers are idiots and you wonder why I or anyone else would take offense to this. I've been using VB all my life simply because that's where the money has been at, no other reason. Not using VB has not resulted in me starving. Using VB until VB.NET would have resulted in you needing access to C++ components to do anything remotely useful or non-generic. I get a lot of work fixing VB.NET projects, I'm doing one right now, hence my mood when it comes to discussing it. I have in past been more careful to say that there are more idiots in VB.NET than any other language, but there are probably 1-2% of people using VB.NET who can program. I've yet to see their work. When I said 'VB.NET is the language of idiots', I meant it. An idiot who wants to code should learn VB.NET. But you're reversing the statement, I'm sure it's possible that you're in the 2%, and I never denied that they exist. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: For a managed application, who cares? Anyone who wants a language that's nice to code in ? Seriously, I could talk for days about the ways in which C# beats VB.NET from the POV of the coder. And as C# grows ( generics, anyone ) the gap will only widen. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Whatever the boss wants, that's what he or she gets. The 'boss' generally pays coders to know what they are talking about. I've succeeded in moving a lot of projects to C# from VB.NET ( existing and projected ), and after this one, I will refuse to do any work that is VB.NET based. Actually, this one was a mistake, I didn't ask what language was used, and I'm honouring my commitment. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: I don't care, and I certainly don't think C# is anymore complicated than VB. No, it's actually less complex, in terms of using and reading it. That would be my point. VB syntax is designed to help stupid people learn it, but the lack of learning curve results in a clumsy language that looks ugly. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: C# is currently the premier language only because it has the best of all worlds, including but not limited to java, c++, and of course VB. C# is the 'premier' language for web development because J2EE sucks, and so does VB.NET. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Or are you that naive to think that C# has n
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: So you like picking on little high school boys, huh? Ever pick on anyone your own size dumb ass? Congratulations, you win stupidest person of the year award. I doubt at this late stage that anyone will urusp your crown. In the real world, where adults live, size has nothing to do with intelligence. It seems you've spent too much time taking steroids. That's probably why you use VB.NET. If you can somehow turn from this bullyboy moron into someone who is capable of an adult discussion, I'm happy to hear why you think that VB.NET deserves to be called a programming language, and to quantify my statement that it is the 'language of idiots'. If not, then just go away. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
"In the real world, where adults live, size has nothing to do with intelligence. It seems you've spent too much time taking steroids. That's probably why you use VB.NET" Steriods? Actually no, I began using VB (COM) right out of school, simply because that's what my very first employer wanted, no other reason. "If you can somehow turn from this bullyboy moron into someone who is capable of an adult discussion, I'm happy to hear why you think that VB.NET deserves to be called a programming language, and to quantify my statement that it is the 'language of idiots'. If not, then just go away." Adult discussion? If I recall correctly, you're the one that began with the insults, I just responded harder. Insult the language but not the people who use for whatever reason. Here you claim that VB doesn't deserve to be called a programming language yet I wonder why so many damn employers love it and won't consider anything else. Are they all wrong and you're right? I doubt it. Go away? I'm going to be in your face for the rest of your life Giancarlo
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Watch what you say asshole, or at least have the balls to talk all your sh*t to an actual person. How interesting that someone offended by the truth about VB.NET would also be a meathead. No comments about 'VB is a good language because...', no, I get 'you insulted me so I'm gonna pound you, because if I'm stronger than you, that proves I'm smarter/better'. Good, thanks for proving my point. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: In february I'll be in SF attending VS Live. Were you not a moron, you'd have noticed that I'm not even in the USA. And people like you make me glad of it. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: No joke Oh, it's no joke. It's morons like you that devalue our entire industry, to my personal financial detriment. Thanks for that. Moron. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
I'd be more worried that he wanted to pound your arse out. Said he was going to San Francisco, bet he lives there. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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"In the real world, where adults live, size has nothing to do with intelligence. It seems you've spent too much time taking steroids. That's probably why you use VB.NET" Steriods? Actually no, I began using VB (COM) right out of school, simply because that's what my very first employer wanted, no other reason. "If you can somehow turn from this bullyboy moron into someone who is capable of an adult discussion, I'm happy to hear why you think that VB.NET deserves to be called a programming language, and to quantify my statement that it is the 'language of idiots'. If not, then just go away." Adult discussion? If I recall correctly, you're the one that began with the insults, I just responded harder. Insult the language but not the people who use for whatever reason. Here you claim that VB doesn't deserve to be called a programming language yet I wonder why so many damn employers love it and won't consider anything else. Are they all wrong and you're right? I doubt it. Go away? I'm going to be in your face for the rest of your life Giancarlo
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Actually no, I began using VB (COM) right out of school, simply because that's what my very first employer wanted, no other reason. OK, so you learned to code on the job. I get it now. It was bad luck and lack of forethought that got you into VB. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Insult the language but not the people who use for whatever reason. I've known one person who could code in VB, although I never saw his code, he was with me on a C project. He agreed with me that most VB programmers are drawn to VB because they are useless, and that because of them, the name of VB is beyond redemption. Neither he, nor I, ever claimed that no user of VB knows how to program. I said that previously. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: yet I wonder why so many damn employers love it I hear the answer to that quite often. The concern employers have is that because VB is easy, a lot of people know how to use it, and therefore they will have no trouble finding people to maintain their codebase. That was a problem more in my C++ days, than now that I mostly use C# ( although I still enjoy the odd C or C++ project when I can get it ) Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Are they all wrong and you're right? No, they have different concerns to me. I care about how to write a good system, they care about a system that works, and that they can find someone else to work on if I am not available. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Go away? I'm going to be in your face for the rest of your life ROTFL - I doubt it. I notice you're dodging the 'what languages do you know' question with great fervour. I suspect that the only way you'll be 'in my face' is if in 5 years time when VB is dead, you show up to clean my pool. And no, I'm beyond being nice. You are an idiot. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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I'd be more worried that he wanted to pound your arse out. Said he was going to San Francisco, bet he lives there. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
ROTFL - see, I didn't even consider that (obvious) possibility. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: What's wrong with you man, here you are shouting at the world that VB programmers are idiots and you wonder why I or anyone else would take offense to this. I've been using VB all my life simply because that's where the money has been at, no other reason. Not using VB has not resulted in me starving. Using VB until VB.NET would have resulted in you needing access to C++ components to do anything remotely useful or non-generic. I get a lot of work fixing VB.NET projects, I'm doing one right now, hence my mood when it comes to discussing it. I have in past been more careful to say that there are more idiots in VB.NET than any other language, but there are probably 1-2% of people using VB.NET who can program. I've yet to see their work. When I said 'VB.NET is the language of idiots', I meant it. An idiot who wants to code should learn VB.NET. But you're reversing the statement, I'm sure it's possible that you're in the 2%, and I never denied that they exist. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: For a managed application, who cares? Anyone who wants a language that's nice to code in ? Seriously, I could talk for days about the ways in which C# beats VB.NET from the POV of the coder. And as C# grows ( generics, anyone ) the gap will only widen. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Whatever the boss wants, that's what he or she gets. The 'boss' generally pays coders to know what they are talking about. I've succeeded in moving a lot of projects to C# from VB.NET ( existing and projected ), and after this one, I will refuse to do any work that is VB.NET based. Actually, this one was a mistake, I didn't ask what language was used, and I'm honouring my commitment. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: I don't care, and I certainly don't think C# is anymore complicated than VB. No, it's actually less complex, in terms of using and reading it. That would be my point. VB syntax is designed to help stupid people learn it, but the lack of learning curve results in a clumsy language that looks ugly. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: C# is currently the premier language only because it has the best of all worlds, including but not limited to java, c++, and of course VB. C# is the 'premier' language for web development because J2EE sucks, and so does VB.NET. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: Or are you that naive to think that C# has n
"Using VB until VB.NET would have resulted in you needing access to C++ components to do anything remotely useful or non-generic." The only time I ever had to use C++ in the VB COM days was when not doing so made the system unstable, but other than that, the Win32 API and MTS made things happen. As far as object orientation was concerned, never had any problems implementing most patterns, if not all patterns, although given VB COM's lack of implementation inheritance, I always had to rely on object composition as opposed to class composition, but in the end it all worked out. "I get a lot of work fixing VB.NET projects, I'm doing one right now, hence my mood when it comes to discussing it. I have in past been more careful to say that there are more idiots in VB.NET than any other language, but there are probably 1-2% of people using VB.NET who can program. I've yet to see their work." You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. "Anyone who wants a language that's nice to code in ? Seriously, I could talk for days about the ways in which C# beats VB.NET from the POV of the coder. And as C# grows ( generics, anyone ) the gap will only widen." Well talk the ways! I see absolutely no advantage of C# over VB.NET, and where there is one, VB strikes right back. Some folks argue that C# is better because it has a C style syntax and, therefore, makes it easier to learn other C based languages. Who cares, a language is language, and if you're able to program in one language yet not in another after a couple of days of hitting the books and the online help, then you're not a programmer and you need to find something else to do. You see I don't judge systems based on the implementation language but rather on the patterns used to implement the system. Whether those patterns are implemented in C++, C#, Delphi, SmallTalk, or even COBOL for heaven sakes, as long as they're there, I'm cool. Where the hell do you get the idea that C# will continue to get better and VB will continue to get worse, and, furthermore, why the hell do you bring up generics for heaven's sake. Generics is a feature of the framework, not C#. The only feature that I know of that C# will have but not VB in version 2.0 is anonymous methods, and yes, I did almost cry, but oh well, we'll get it from MS, we just have to ask. Everything else, we've pretty much got. And what's with this shit about the C# programmers crying so hard that MS finally decided to give the power programmers edit and continue. Edit
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First of all, this is not the place for programming questions. If you can't work that out from the big banner above where you typed this question, you should move into a career more suited to your skills, like perhaps a circus geek. Secondly, and I say this with respect, VB.NET is the language of idiots. I've been forced to use it of late, and everything that I've seen has confirmed my suspicions. If you want to be a programmer, I suggest two easy steps 1. Learn to read. 2. Learn a programming language. I recommend C#. <edit>Yes, I am having a bad day. But I'd normally have said the same thing, just perhaps worded it a little more carefully</edit> Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
You know… I have been watching this VB vs. xxxx war evolve here today as well as most of my programming career and really don’t want to get 'into it' but feel that I have to make some kind of statement about what I see. For starters I am NOT going to get dragged into a long religious war about what language is better. This will be my last post in this thread on this subject, but I do have some thing that I feel I have to say… kengiB, I feel your pain, I really do, but you learned your lesson here the hard way. You posted a programming question in the Lounge (where it does not belong) and caught hell for it. Pull your self up and deal with it. You have not been here very long and got slapped for screwing up on that aspect. Sorry, but people here get quite adamant about that rule. There is a VB specific message area here where all your questions are welcome. Christian, grow up for Christ sake. Had a bad day? Ok, get a punching bag don't take it out on the residents. What makes you think that you can get off talking to people that way? Do you think that you could get away with it if you walked up to a person that spoke German and told them that 'German was a language of Idiots"? Have a bit of respect for people that have never done you a damn bit of harm and stop before you vent. Talk intelligently and maybe you might get an intelligent response. Personally I think that your response was racist and uncalled for. Giancarlo, grow up too. There is no reason (even if you are pissed off) for using that type of language in a public message area. Follow the darn rules… "The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read then don't post it.". You just show a complete lack of respect for everyone else here when you talk that way and I (as a fellow Vber) don’t need you defending me that way. It just tends to lend credence to the level of maturity that people tack onto VB developers as a whole. People, I really don't care what language you program in, but I would expect that we all have a bit of decorum here and at least act like intelligent people that are able to discuss things rationally and with a bit of intelligence. A simple 'Don't post programming questions in the Lounge…' would have been sufficient. Why take your bad day out on someone else? It is no excuse. Yeah, the general attitude towards VB really makes ME want to contribute articles here…… Right…
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that count
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"Using VB until VB.NET would have resulted in you needing access to C++ components to do anything remotely useful or non-generic." The only time I ever had to use C++ in the VB COM days was when not doing so made the system unstable, but other than that, the Win32 API and MTS made things happen. As far as object orientation was concerned, never had any problems implementing most patterns, if not all patterns, although given VB COM's lack of implementation inheritance, I always had to rely on object composition as opposed to class composition, but in the end it all worked out. "I get a lot of work fixing VB.NET projects, I'm doing one right now, hence my mood when it comes to discussing it. I have in past been more careful to say that there are more idiots in VB.NET than any other language, but there are probably 1-2% of people using VB.NET who can program. I've yet to see their work." You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. "Anyone who wants a language that's nice to code in ? Seriously, I could talk for days about the ways in which C# beats VB.NET from the POV of the coder. And as C# grows ( generics, anyone ) the gap will only widen." Well talk the ways! I see absolutely no advantage of C# over VB.NET, and where there is one, VB strikes right back. Some folks argue that C# is better because it has a C style syntax and, therefore, makes it easier to learn other C based languages. Who cares, a language is language, and if you're able to program in one language yet not in another after a couple of days of hitting the books and the online help, then you're not a programmer and you need to find something else to do. You see I don't judge systems based on the implementation language but rather on the patterns used to implement the system. Whether those patterns are implemented in C++, C#, Delphi, SmallTalk, or even COBOL for heaven sakes, as long as they're there, I'm cool. Where the hell do you get the idea that C# will continue to get better and VB will continue to get worse, and, furthermore, why the hell do you bring up generics for heaven's sake. Generics is a feature of the framework, not C#. The only feature that I know of that C# will have but not VB in version 2.0 is anonymous methods, and yes, I did almost cry, but oh well, we'll get it from MS, we just have to ask. Everything else, we've pretty much got. And what's with this shit about the C# programmers crying so hard that MS finally decided to give the power programmers edit and continue. Edit
Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. You're right, I do make money off the idiots of the world. Doesn't stop them being idiots. And I'd make as much, with a lot less stress, if I got to write the systems properly in the first place. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: "You didn't answer my question - what languages do you actively code in ?" VB you fool, and that's why I take offense at all the sh*t you talk. OK, so my point is made. All your 'I am a programmer, I use the best tool for the job' talk is bollocks. You are a VB weenie, you've never bothered to learn anything else, and you'll soon be on the scrap heap. For the record, I have done large projects in C, C++, Java, Python, C# (obviously) and VB.NET ( sadly ). I've also used SVG, XSLT, XML, XPath, JScript, VBScript extensively in the course of those projects. I've been published in magazines writing about C, C++, C#, SVG, XSLT, and Javascript. So you can go and get stuffed. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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You know… I have been watching this VB vs. xxxx war evolve here today as well as most of my programming career and really don’t want to get 'into it' but feel that I have to make some kind of statement about what I see. For starters I am NOT going to get dragged into a long religious war about what language is better. This will be my last post in this thread on this subject, but I do have some thing that I feel I have to say… kengiB, I feel your pain, I really do, but you learned your lesson here the hard way. You posted a programming question in the Lounge (where it does not belong) and caught hell for it. Pull your self up and deal with it. You have not been here very long and got slapped for screwing up on that aspect. Sorry, but people here get quite adamant about that rule. There is a VB specific message area here where all your questions are welcome. Christian, grow up for Christ sake. Had a bad day? Ok, get a punching bag don't take it out on the residents. What makes you think that you can get off talking to people that way? Do you think that you could get away with it if you walked up to a person that spoke German and told them that 'German was a language of Idiots"? Have a bit of respect for people that have never done you a damn bit of harm and stop before you vent. Talk intelligently and maybe you might get an intelligent response. Personally I think that your response was racist and uncalled for. Giancarlo, grow up too. There is no reason (even if you are pissed off) for using that type of language in a public message area. Follow the darn rules… "The Lounge is rated PG. If you're about to post something you wouldn't want your kid sister to read then don't post it.". You just show a complete lack of respect for everyone else here when you talk that way and I (as a fellow Vber) don’t need you defending me that way. It just tends to lend credence to the level of maturity that people tack onto VB developers as a whole. People, I really don't care what language you program in, but I would expect that we all have a bit of decorum here and at least act like intelligent people that are able to discuss things rationally and with a bit of intelligence. A simple 'Don't post programming questions in the Lounge…' would have been sufficient. Why take your bad day out on someone else? It is no excuse. Yeah, the general attitude towards VB really makes ME want to contribute articles here…… Right…
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that count
Ray Cassick wrote: This will be my last post in this thread on this subject I'll reply anyhow, seeing as you addressed me... Ray Cassick wrote: Had a bad day? Ok, get a punching bag don't take it out on the residents. I've had a bad WEEK, because of this VB.NET project, and other issues ( see the soapbox ). However, the fact remains that if it wasn't me, it would have been someone else. No programming questions in the lounge. It says it in big letters. And this other idiot attacked me, not vice versa. I said that VB is the language of idiots. By which I meant that VB is written to appeal to people based on simplicity, rather than power, and it suffers for it. Any other day, I may have worded it better, but it was still not a personal attack, certainly not like the reply this Giancarlo dude threw at me. And he's sure shown himself to be a sterling example of all that is good in VB world. Ray Cassick wrote: Do you think that you could get away with it if you walked up to a person that spoke German and told them that 'German was a language of Idiots"? The analogy does not hold, for the reasons I stated. German was not designed to be easy to learn and to shield you from your mistakes. It's not a language that attracts people who want to do things the easy way. They have three words for 'the', for goodness sakes. Ray Cassick wrote: Personally I think that your response was racist and uncalled for. Perhaps it was over the top. Hell, it WAS over the top. Someone was just stupid enough to draw my attention when I was already pretty unhappy. But racist ? How do you work that out ? I could care less where he comes from, and I'd have reacted roughly the same way to a C++ question. Ray Cassick wrote: It just tends to lend credence to the level of maturity that people tack onto VB developers as a whole. Amen to that. And, once again, I have said a lot of anti VB stuff recently, and I stand by it. And I'm happy to discuss it intelligently. I think you'll find I've generally been careful to say that I don't deny that there is a minority of good VB programmers in the world. You guys exist, you're just outnumbered, and the language is the reason. That, and people like Giancarlo. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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First of all, this is not the place for programming questions. If you can't work that out from the big banner above where you typed this question, you should move into a career more suited to your skills, like perhaps a circus geek. Secondly, and I say this with respect, VB.NET is the language of idiots. I've been forced to use it of late, and everything that I've seen has confirmed my suspicions. If you want to be a programmer, I suggest two easy steps 1. Learn to read. 2. Learn a programming language. I recommend C#. <edit>Yes, I am having a bad day. But I'd normally have said the same thing, just perhaps worded it a little more carefully</edit> Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: But I'd normally have said the same thing, just perhaps worded it a little more carefully 'circus geek' would have been 'entertainer', and 'idiots' mentally challenged? :-) "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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"Gosh, I wonder...." You wonder why I take offense? What's wrong with you man, here you are shouting at the world that VB programmers are idiots and you wonder why I or anyone else would take offense to this. I've been using VB all my life simply because that's where the money has been at, no other reason. "Noble words. I don't see how that translates to using VB.NET, ever, seeing as C# does the same job, without all the crap. I'm curious to know if you mean this ( that is, how many languages do you use, and in what context do you think VB.NET is the best choice ), or if you just saw it on a message board somewhere." What's your point? For a managed application, who cares? Whatever the boss wants, that's what he or she gets. If they want it written in C#, so be it. I don't care, and I certainly don't think C# is anymore complicated than VB. C# is currently the premier language only because it has the best of all worlds, including but not limited to java, c++, and of course VB. Or are you that naive to think that C# has no resemblance to VB with respect to the development experience. Windows Form, a better VB 6 form, a Web Form, a better VB 6 Web Class.
Giancarlo, It's been a sad fact that there is a general anti-VB sentiment here, ever since the bad old days when I was still a VB6 programmer. I think I just got used to it. His hands felt the grasp of strong white hairs, and he knew he would not survive this fungus.
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"In the real world, where adults live, size has nothing to do with intelligence. It seems you've spent too much time taking steroids. That's probably why you use VB.NET" Steriods? Actually no, I began using VB (COM) right out of school, simply because that's what my very first employer wanted, no other reason. "If you can somehow turn from this bullyboy moron into someone who is capable of an adult discussion, I'm happy to hear why you think that VB.NET deserves to be called a programming language, and to quantify my statement that it is the 'language of idiots'. If not, then just go away." Adult discussion? If I recall correctly, you're the one that began with the insults, I just responded harder. Insult the language but not the people who use for whatever reason. Here you claim that VB doesn't deserve to be called a programming language yet I wonder why so many damn employers love it and won't consider anything else. Are they all wrong and you're right? I doubt it. Go away? I'm going to be in your face for the rest of your life Giancarlo
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Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: You ungrateful little shit, give thanks you have someone's work to clean up. You're right, I do make money off the idiots of the world. Doesn't stop them being idiots. And I'd make as much, with a lot less stress, if I got to write the systems properly in the first place. Giancarlo Aguilera wrote: "You didn't answer my question - what languages do you actively code in ?" VB you fool, and that's why I take offense at all the sh*t you talk. OK, so my point is made. All your 'I am a programmer, I use the best tool for the job' talk is bollocks. You are a VB weenie, you've never bothered to learn anything else, and you'll soon be on the scrap heap. For the record, I have done large projects in C, C++, Java, Python, C# (obviously) and VB.NET ( sadly ). I've also used SVG, XSLT, XML, XPath, JScript, VBScript extensively in the course of those projects. I've been published in magazines writing about C, C++, C#, SVG, XSLT, and Javascript. So you can go and get stuffed. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
"You're right, I do make money off the idiots of the world. Doesn't stop them being idiots. And I'd make as much, with a lot less stress, if I got to write the systems properly in the first place." Don't cry, we don't always get what we want now, do we. If you feel that strongly about it, just don't do the job, but then your wallet suffers, doesn't it. Go inside that office and tell the boss, "let me rewrite the entire system in C# because the user is really going to like how buttons react to C# code as opposed to VB code". Let me know how it turns out. "OK, so my point is made. All your 'I am a programmer, I use the best tool for the job' talk is bollocks. You are a VB weenie, you've never bothered to learn anything else, and you'll soon be on the scrap heap." No need to learn anything else related to a programming language when the one I use is perfectly capable of doing almost anything, and with 2.0 things only get better. My time is far better spent keeping up to date with other more important aspects of technology, SOA, XML and related (XPATH/XSLT/XQUERY 2.0), YUKON, new and revised design patterns, regular expression (awesome) etc... You don't expect me to go to my local book store and buy "C# The Language". What the hell for? So that I know of two ways of doing the same thing. "For the record, I have done large projects in C, C++, Java, Python, C# (obviously) and VB.NET ( sadly ). I've also used SVG, XSLT, XML, XPath, JScript, VBScript extensively in the course of those projects. I've been published in magazines writing about C, C++, C#, SVG, XSLT, and Javascript." No need to reiterate, I've never questioned your skills, on the contrary, and I'll even admit that I respect you as a programmer, but I sure as hell don't respect your over generalizations and your quest to make all VB programmers look like fools. Insult the language, not those who use it, many of whom aren't programmers, just hobbyists. "So you can go and get stuffed" I certainly will, I'll admit I'm a freakin pig. Love to eat! Giancar
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Giancarlo, It's been a sad fact that there is a general anti-VB sentiment here, ever since the bad old days when I was still a VB6 programmer. I think I just got used to it. His hands felt the grasp of strong white hairs, and he knew he would not survive this fungus.
"It's been a sad fact that there is a general anti-VB sentiment here, ever since the bad old days when I was still a VB6 programmer." I know dude, and I have no problem with that. But Christian takes it a step too far with his constant insults. Furthermore, although he's an awesome programmer, just like the many here at CP, I'm not intimidated by anyone of them, for I spend way too much time in this field to give in to anyone's bullshit. Also, what do you mean by the bad old days of VB COM? Given the time, VB 6 rocked. Sure I would never go back, but I am certainly not ashamed of my work as a VB COM programmer. Giancarlo
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Is this it, this is the end? I was so enjoying this discussion too... I was a VB developer once, I frickin' hated everything about it. That language should have died at Vn5 when it became obsolete.
Well you're certainly not making the decisions at MS. VB was born and continues to exist for one reason only, and that's to make MS an even bigger cash cow. So you think because you and others don't like it's just going to go away? Please, this is business, not personal I know your type, you're one of those VB COM programmers that always felt down in light of MFC, and now you think that since you've switched over to C#, the C folks will accept you. Pathetic! What actually makes you think you can turn around and write that same awesome C# app in MFC? What, do you actually think a C# programmer is one in the same with an MFC programmer. Yeah right. C# != MFC, MFC > C# Giancarlo Giancarlo